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Parents: Punishing Kids [W:361]

is it ever allowable for a Parent to punish their child with force?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 68.3%
  • No

    Votes: 12 19.0%
  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 8 12.7%

  • Total voters
    63
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

This is just a parenting failure. If your kids fear you will physically beat them, you are doing it wrong. Fear is not an appropriate tool for use child rearing. Punishments needs to happen to correct children, and sometimes and ass whoppin is needed. But if you are leaving marks, and damn sure if you are drawing blood, or if your kids fear being beaten by you, then you are failing and are a child abuser trying to justify the abuse. I do agree that our kids need to be well adjusted. They need to do the right thing because its the right thing to do, not be terrified of being beaten by their parents if they mess up.

Were did I say anything about physical discipline at all? Notice I said the word do. That entails anything. Fear and intimidation ARE appropriate and very useful tools especially when children are younger and more prone to impulsiveness and irrationality. My family has a long illustrious family tradition of child rearing, we have it down to a scientific based art form.

Example of use of intimidation for smaller more impulsive children. Child does something impulsive, say hit another child. Presumption they have done this before and have been told not to and disciplined previously. Technique. Stand tall with your well practiced stern glare, stride quickly with purposeful intent toward them and then lift by their shirt or belt (make sure said shirt or belt is securely on the child. It takes some practice to check quickly and still maintain intimidation) so they are at eye level from and say in a high volume stern strong voice "No". or "Enough" Then in a lower though still stern voice say "You do not hit people." Then carry said child to a corner and place them face toward said corner and say sternly and in a louder volume "Stay." Then in a lower stern voice "You will stay here, till I say otherwise. Understood." Always receive a verbal acknowledgement. Do not leave till you get one. You want to make sure they are not being in anyway defiant they will display this in body language and attitude and though refusal to comply with your demands. In this case we shall presume the child acknowledges they understand. You then stride away purposefully. And that point decide when the child may leave their "confinement".

Notice the techniques we are using involve intimidation and fear. The child in this case has hit another child previously and were corrected at that time and has now hit another child again. They know not to do this. Therefore quick decisive action was required. The first intimidation technique is sudden purposeful reaction, in this case lifting the child to eye level and looking it in the eyes. We are using height speed size and perception to physically cause fear and to intimidate. The second intimidation technique involves use of voice volume and inflection and tone and timber to intimidate to startling and though fear. The objective is to obtain the immediate and undivided attention of the child for the purposes of discipline and corrective action by taking advantage of natural instinctual reactions of children toward perceived threats. We are using to our advantage natural instinct in our children to correct, reinforce, and discipline in them. Though intelligent observation of our children's natural reactions we can begin to understand and customize corrective measures to each child individually to maximize effectiveness of said measures.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

There seems to be a couple aspects of this that you do not understand.

1. The justice system. You think it's about extracting revenge on people - that's stupid. Learn what the justice system is about.

Sorry, but that's what we have. It doesn't appear to be going away any time soon either.

What are you advocating instead? Euro-style "luxury resort" prisons?

Do you have any idea how much that kind of system costs?

2. Third world ****holes don't have high rates of incarceration because they have neither the resources for effective police nor the resources for a sufficient prison system. On top of that, cops are easily bribed in the developing world, thereby greatly lowering the instances of prosecution let alone incarceration.

Singapore is not a "third world **** hole."
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

For several thousand years, they were. In many parts of the world (Singapore, for instance), they still are.

Frankly, I'm not even necessarily opposed to the idea.

A good caning with a bamboo shaft is a Hell of a lot more expedient than paying to lock someone in jail for five to ten years over trivial, non-violent, offenses.

Again I ask, what century are we in?
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

How does cages promote redemption?

Incarceration alone does not serve redemption. Rehabilitation opportunities within prison serve redemption. Does rehabilitation work? Perhaps almost never; however, the opportunity nonetheless justifies the very existence of society and that's the purpose of the justice system.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

If it works.

I might prefer Liberal Democracy, but I am hardly married to the idea.

You serve just for your own benefit? How wretched. Did you choke when you took the oath to the Constitution?
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

You serve just for your own benefit? How wretched. Did you choke when you took the oath to the Constitution?

And the benefit of society in general.

There is a time and place for authoritarianism just as there is anything else in this world. Democracy is not always ideal for every situation.

As a matter of fact, under some circumstances, it can be a hindrance.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

It is the stubborn man that refuses to accept things for how they are that changes the world. A balanced individual does what he pleases, but knows what is right. He does not simply follow the rules because they are the rules, but because he knows it is right to follow the rules and he accepts them on the grounds of reason, not on the grounds of obedience. I do not desire to make my children obedient in the name of obedience, but to make them understand what is right.

Tell me, are young children always reasonable and rational and control their impulses? I would say 99% out of 100% don't. If you have the 1%, thank Jesus and all the rest of the other deities, cause sonny you hit the jackpot. Your argument doesn't apply to children, as they are not always rational, and are quite impulsive and are at many times unreasonable. You have to require obedience until they become rational and control their impulses and are reasonable. Understand now? As parents we are protecting our children from themselves until they gain their rationality and can control themselves.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Sorry, but that's what we have. It doesn't appear to be going away any time soon either.

No, it's your own warped (hateful) perspective of the justice system as a means of extracting revenge. Don't blame your own fraudulent interpretation of the justice system on others.

If you could understand what the justice system really is (a justification of society itself), you'd have a higher level of understanding.

What are you advocating instead? Euro-style "luxury resort" prisons?

Not at all. Where did you get such an idea?

Do you have any idea how much that kind of system costs?

The system we have is a justice system. You don't know the purpose of a justice system, so you think I'm talking about something that does not yet exist in the US. That's funny if pathetic.

Singapore is not a "third world **** hole."

Perhaps second world, but definitely a ****hole.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Incarceration alone does not serve redemption. Rehabilitation opportunities within prison serve redemption. Does rehabilitation work? Perhaps almost never; however, the opportunity nonetheless justifies the very existence of society and that's the purpose of the justice system.

Does the prison environment promote positive change? There is a reason for the failure of prison to get positive results. It is expected to be rare that a man will be redeemed in a nightmarish environment.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

And the benefit of society in general.

There is a time and place for authoritarianism just as there is anything else in this world. Democracy is not always ideal for every situation.

As a matter of fact, under some circumstances, it can be a hindrance.

Childish BS.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Any thing you hold in your hand to beat someone is a weapon. I don't care how many centuries you go back.

Were in my quote did I even mention using physical force? What I agree with and what I do are two different things, I suggest you remember that.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Does the prison environment promote positive change? There is a reason for the failure of prison to get positive results. It is expected to be rare that a man will be redeemed in a nightmarish environment.

Obviously we are not doing well in the redemption department. More prisoners learn new ways of committing crime than experience redemption. That's irrelevant to an understanding of the justice system and its goals (protection and redemption - the things that justify society, and not extracting revenge).
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

What I agree with and what I do are two different things, I suggest you remember that.

Well if that's not a proclamation of hypocrisy, I don't know what is.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Tell me, are young children always reasonable and rational and control their impulses? I would say 99% out of 100% don't. If you have the 1%, thank Jesus and all the rest of the other deities, cause sonny you hit the jackpot. Your argument doesn't apply to children, as they are not always rational, and are quite impulsive and are at many times unreasonable. You have to require obedience until they become rational and control their impulses and are reasonable. Understand now? As parents we are protecting our children from themselves until they gain their rationality and can control themselves.

When I was growing up I used to watch my mother babysit and over the years I picked up on a great many little things she did to get children to behave. My mother is a gentle woman that approached parenting in an interesting and highly effective way. It is a way that I adopted myself to a large degree when I had a child of my own. I did this because of how gentle and yet extremely efficient it was. Her main focus was understanding and choice. She would only issue punishment in extreme situations, and besides that she would never punish the children, but focused her attention on understanding. She wanted to know why the kids misbehaved and deal with their reasons, as she felt that many times children misbehaved for reasons they feel strongly about and that those reasons should not simply be ignored and thrown to the side as unimportant. She felt that resolving a problem meant dealing with it's causes and it was important to teach children to deal with their problems in better more peaceful means. Children are not from my experience through all my years run by mindless impulses, but the same things we as adults are. We have to treat them with respect and unconditional love and try our best to replace punishments with reason.
 
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Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Obviously we are not doing well in the redemption department. More prisoners learn new ways of committing crime than experience redemption. That's irrelevant to an understanding of the justice system and its goals (protection and redemption - the things that justify society, and not extracting revenge).

The prison system not only promotes more violence and cruelty, but is by itself violent and cruel. I do not believe that you can teach a man to change their violent ways by placing them in a hell of violence. I think the goal of doing it is naive and will never work.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

I'd never use a switch in the first place; use the same amount force that you do with a spanking and you will end up with cuts and bleeding with a switch.

Not even that much. If you use one especially a thinner one with a bit of heft and length, you have to be careful with those on skin. Too much finesse required. Though the part were they have to pick it is a very good intimidator. I prefer a paddle. I keep several so I still have the intimidation factor of the children having to pick their "demise". You still get the sting but without the risk of cuts and such. Generally after a about 8 or a little thereafter I don't have to use them at all on the children. I have been fortunate not have use them much in the first place. They are still useful though they make great devices for making loud snapping startling noise when I want their undivided attention. Works every time. I highly recommend them for that purpose. Much better than an air horn.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Well if that's not a proclamation of hypocrisy, I don't know what is.

Sometimes as a parent you have to be one.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

The prison system not only promotes more violence and cruelty, but is by itself violent and cruel. I do not believe that you can teach a man to change their violent ways by placing them in a hell of violence. I think the goal of doing it is naive and will never work.

Of course we need to improve our prison system; nonetheless, incarceration does -in fact- serve to protect society while caning does not.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Sometimes as a parent you have to be one.

More baseless rhetoric.

I'm special because my family has been concerned about each other for generations!

I'm special because I'm a parent!


When you no longer rely on personal and family greatness to support child abuse and hypocrisy, let me know.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Corporal Punishment isn't used at all to the same level is use to be. But if we are to believe that spankings are so detrimental to a child's development, then you can't deny that as time has moved on and it has been used less and less, children's frame of mind have been getting worse, not better. At the very least, this demonstrates that the negative repercussions have been blown out of proportions.

Also, just because one spanks their child, doesn't mean their abused. There's a line there, and any good parent will know it.

Spanking and beating are not the same thing. If you are leaving marks on your kids that last for very long you are abusing your child. I am baffled at how you and a few others are justifying beating children.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

When I was growing up I used to watch my mother babysit and over the years I picked up on a great many little things she did to get children to behave. My mother is a gentle woman that approached parenting in an interesting and highly effective way. It is a way that I adopted myself to a large degree when I had a child of my own. I did this because of how gentle and yet extremely efficient it was. Her main focus was understanding and choice. She would only issue punishment in extreme situations, and besides that she would never punish the children, but focused her attention on understanding. She wanted to know why the kids misbehaved and deal with their reasons, as she felt that many times children misbehaved for reasons they feel strongly about and that those reasons should not simply be ignored and thrown to the side as unimportant. She felt that resolving a problem meant dealing with it's causes and it was important to teach children to deal with their problems in better more peaceful means. Children are not from my experience through all my years run by mindless impulses, but the same things we as adults are. We have to treat them with respect and unconditional love and try our best to replace punishments with reason.

more people should read this.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Again I ask, what century are we in?

Looks pretty modern and 21st century if you ask me:

1349801600-sphub-nightshot-fullsize-c-singapore-sports-hub-oaker-528x297.jpg


Caning is a punishment for vandalism and some other relatively minor offenses and despite having the 3rd highest population densities on earth and a very diverse population, they have the lowest crime rate of any nation on earth. So it seems like it works.
 
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