• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Parents: Punishing Kids [W:361]

is it ever allowable for a Parent to punish their child with force?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 68.3%

  • No

    Votes: 12 19.0%

  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 8 12.7%
  • Total voters
    63
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

pinqy said:
My parents never used force. I have never used force. It's not necessary to use force. It's not necessarily bad to spank..and that might be a good option in many cases...but force is not necessary..there are many other punishment options.
Click to expand...

It's not a question of how many options there are, it's a question about which is most effective. Sometimes, a spanking is all there is. I do think it's the last resort, because you never want to see a child (especially your child) in tears. Nevertheless, it doesn't change the fact that sometimes it is all that's left.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Jerry said:
The most devastating punishment I ever gave to my oldest (10, at the time) was right after he lost his temper and went after a cousin with a hammer. I gave him the long stare and said "I am disappointed in you".

He fell apart instantly with the crying and apologizing.

I never had to touch him. The 'dad voice, the look, and those words took him apart.

I built him back up later by giving him special chores to do for his cousin and his aunt. He actually did a very good job as he wanted to redeem himself. Later I told him that I was proud of him for realizing his mistake, doing a good job with the make-up chores, and when I said the words "you aren't in trouble anymore" he started crying in relief.

IMO if you have to strike a child for anything other than legit self-defense (I've experienced some violent little children let me tell you what I have stories) or just to get their attention, you've already lost the situation.
Click to expand...

Parental approval/disappointment was IMO the most effective parenting tool when raising the kids. Something I don't think anyone ever quite grows out of. Giving them a swift swat on the butt (used very sparingly) had it's place when they were very young but once you could talk to them (and they understood) IMO not much use for it.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Hamster Buddha said:
Oh hippie nonsense. Fear of punishment is a great tool (especially when the boys come calling for your little girl), as long as the child also knows you love them. You look at the kids who were raised 30,40, or 50 years ago (or more), they didn't have any trouble growing up adjusted. Have you seen the suicide rates among young people? It's worse today than it ever was back then! Obviously, they're not growing up "well adjusted".
Click to expand...

And kids are getting their asses beaten today too. There is no connection there. The idea that kids will commit suicide if they aren't abused is retarded.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
You don't jack or **** about how we raise our children. Notice nowhere in my quote did I mention once weapon, or implement or anything that could be construed as such.

We have raised children in our family, as family, for centuries back to before we made the move here to America, can yours say that? So we know a thing or two. I doubt highly your family can claim the same.
Click to expand...

NO, you just said parents have a duty to beat their kids until they are feared enough. But as long as your family has been beating children for centuries that makes it ok. Do you enjoy beating women, animals, homeless, elderly or is it just children that its ok to beat?
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Hamster Buddha said:
It also varies from parent to parent just how effective that punishment is. Father figures a lot of time have far more latitude to make the "I'm disappointed" argument. Mothers often don't have that sort of relationship with their kids in my experience.
Click to expand...
Oh man do I know the truth of that statement right there. The ex and I have been divorced for a while, she has the kids in another state....and she still has to use me as a threat to get them to do anything. My oldest especially will disrespect & disobey her at every turn until she says "Do I need to call your dad?" Then all of a sudden he straitens up. I first learned she still does that the very first time she called me to carry out her 'threat'. I guess she thought I was going to chew him out when she put him on the phone, but chewing out usually doesn't work. It's all in the dad voice. This is what you need to do, now go do it. You can feel mad or frustrated or however you want while you do it, that's ok, but you have to do it. So just get it don already.

She got back on the phone and thought I chewed his ass real good because she said he went right to whatever it was he was fighting her over and just did it. Pretty quickly, too, and correctly. I wish I could claim credit for having some magical power but it's just how things are. Dads have more authoriah.

I got him back on the phone later and let him talk about anything he wanted. I think just being comfortable talking to me about whatever crossed his mind (usually train related) got me respect and that's what compelled him to obey when I told him to do whatever.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Kreton said:
And kids are getting their asses beaten today too. There is no connection there. The idea that kids will commit suicide if they aren't abused is retarded.
Click to expand...

Corporal Punishment isn't used at all to the same level is use to be. But if we are to believe that spankings are so detrimental to a child's development, then you can't deny that as time has moved on and it has been used less and less, children's frame of mind have been getting worse, not better. At the very least, this demonstrates that the negative repercussions have been blown out of proportions.

Also, just because one spanks their child, doesn't mean their abused. There's a line there, and any good parent will know it.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Jerry said:
Oh man do I know the truth of that statement right there. The ex and I have been divorced for a while, she has the kids in another state....and she still has to use me as a threat to get them to do anything. My oldest especialy will disrespec & disobay her at every turn until she says "Do I need to call your dad?" Then all of a sudden he straignens up. I first learned she still does that the very first time she called me to carry out her 'threat'. I guess she thought I was going to chew him out when she put him on the phone, but chewing out usualy doesn't work. It's all in the dad voice. This is what you need to do, now go do it. You can feel mad or frustrated or however you want while you do it, that's ok, but you have to do it.

She got back on the phone and thought I chewed his ass real good because she said he went right to whatever it was he was fighting her over and just did it. Pretty quickly, too, and correctly. I wish I could claim credit for having some magical power but it's just how things are. Dads have more authoriah.

I got him back on the phone later and let him talk about anything he wanted. I think just being comfortable talking to me about whatever crossed his mind (usually train related) got me respect and that's what compelled him to obey when I told him to do whatever.
Click to expand...

 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
You don't jack or **** about how we raise our children. Notice nowhere in my quote did I mention once weapon, or implement or anything that could be construed as such.

We have raised children in our family, as family, for centuries back to before we made the move here to America, can yours say that? So we know a thing or two. I doubt highly your family can claim the same.
Click to expand...
Any thing you hold in your hand to beat someone is a weapon. I don't care how many centuries you go back.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
They don't have to fear you, they have to fear what you will do and what you would think of them for their transgression. Fear is an appropriate tool to use in child rearing. My family believes in corporal punishment. We don't call it punishment, we call it correction. That said, because we know we are genetically a stubborn lot we keep said corporal corrections to a absolute minimum to maximize there effectiveness. Our familial personality traits tend to clannish, intelligent, stubborn, and ill-tempered. So raising our children can be a challenge. Which means we have to start early and utilize a variety of methods. It also means there can be no slack on the parents part, we have to do what we say will every single time and make no exceptions. We are parents first and foremost, friendship is just a possible fringe benefit of being a parent. Our job as we see it is to produce a successful well adjusted and acclimated offspring, complete with all the mental tools necessary to face and overcome adverse circumstances with relative ease and confidence.
Click to expand...

It is the stubborn man that refuses to accept things for how they are that changes the world. A balanced individual does what he pleases, but knows what is right. He does not simply follow the rules because they are the rules, but because he knows it is right to follow the rules and he accepts them on the grounds of reason, not on the grounds of obedience. I do not desire to make my children obedient in the name of obedience, but to make them understand what is right.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Hamster Buddha said:
A child, one below 5 years old, cannot be compared to a full grown adult who has fully matured. That is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Or even a teen ager. Beating a 4 year old like Petersen did is out of bounds. Period.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

CRUE CAB said:
Or even a teen ager. Beating a 4 year old like Petersen did is out of bounds. Period.
Click to expand...

I'd never use a switch in the first place; use the same amount force that you do with a spanking and you will end up with cuts and bleeding with a switch.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

ecofarm said:
If beating someone teaches them something (other than using violence to get what one wants), why aren't beatings part of the justice system?
Click to expand...

For several thousand years, they were. In many parts of the world (Singapore, for instance), they still are.

Frankly, I'm not even necessarily opposed to the idea.

A good caning with a bamboo shaft is a Hell of a lot more expedient than paying to lock someone in jail for five to ten years over trivial, non-violent, offenses.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gathomas88 said:
For several thousand years, they were. In many parts of the world (Singapore, for instance), they still are.

Frankly, I'm not even necessarily opposed to the idea.

A good caning with a bamboo shaft is a Hell of a lot more expedient than paying to lock someone in jail for five to ten years over trivial, non-violent, offenses.
Click to expand...

Barbarism. Does holding such an antiquated position help you feel powerful?
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gathomas88 said:
For several thousand years, they were. In many parts of the world (Singapore, for instance), they still are.

Frankly, I'm not even necessarily opposed to the idea.

A good caning with a bamboo shaft is a Hell of a lot more expedient than paying to lock someone in jail for five to ten years over trivial, non-violent, offenses.
Click to expand...

Violence teaches nothing. Throwing someone in a cage will teach them nothing and the same goes for beating them a bamboo shaft. They will learn nothing from it. You might make them obey to avoid the punishment, but you will get nothing else from it. It is without doubt a waste of time and human effort.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
Violence teaches nothing. Throwing someone in a cage will teach them nothing and the same goes for beating them a bamboo shaft. They will learn nothing from it. You might make them obey to avoid the punishment, but you will get nothing else from it. It is without doubt a waste of time and human effort.
Click to expand...

Throwing someone in a cage is a matter of protecting society. And it's much more effective than caning someone.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

ecofarm said:
Throwing someone in a cage is a matter of protecting society. And it's much more effective than caning someone.
Click to expand...

It's nonsense. You do you not correct behavior or teach people by throwing them in a cage. It might very well serve to protect society, but it solves nothing.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gathomas88 said:
Singapore's exceptionally low crime rate in comparison to the Western World would seem to indicate otherwise.
Click to expand...

That's a bit of a red herring.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gathomas88 said:
Barbarism is often effective.
Click to expand...

No, it's not. Caning someone in no way protects society, imprisoning someone does.

I think your fundamental disconnect is viewing the justice system as a punishment system as opposed to a public safety and redemption system. I'll try to explain:

Punishment does not justify society. No one agrees to the social contract on the basis of "well, do you punish people?" That would be stupid. People agree to the social contract because society protects (through incarceration) and provides opportunity for redemption (through rehabilitation). These things -protection and redemption- justify society itself, these things make being part of society worthwhile. Punishment does not make being part of society worthwhile.

One must understand that the justice system is in place to justify society itself, and not to provide justice to, for or of an individual.


Singapore's exceptionally low crime rate in comparison to the Western World would seem to indicate otherwise.
Click to expand...

Singapore also lacks freedom of speech. It's virtually a police state. Is that what you advocate?
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

ecofarm said:
No, it's not. Caning someone in no way protects society, imprisoning someone does.
Click to expand...

Again, Singapore's low crime rate would seem to indicate otherwise.

All your philosophy has resulted in is a US prison population large enough to rival that of Stalin's USSR.

Singapore also lacks freedom of speech. It's virtually a police state. Is that what you advocate?
Click to expand...

If it works.

I might prefer Liberal Democracy, but I am hardly married to the idea.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
Violence teaches nothing. Throwing someone in a cage will teach them nothing and the same goes for beating them a bamboo shaft. They will learn nothing from it. You might make them obey to avoid the punishment, but you will get nothing else from it. It is without doubt a waste of time and human effort.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. I am pretty sure that Michael Fay's caning in over in Singapore for vandalizing cars back in 1994 cured him of ever doing it again. ;)
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
It's nonsense. You do you not correct behavior or teach people by throwing them in a cage. It might very well serve to protect society, but it solves nothing.
Click to expand...

I didn't claim incarceration teaches anyone anything. I merely pointed out that the purpose of the justice system is protection and redemption (see above) and caning addresses neither of those things.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gathomas88 said:
All your philosophy has resulted in is a US prison population large enough to rival that of Stalin's USSR.
Click to expand...

There seems to be a couple aspects of this that you do not understand.

1. The justice system. You think it's about extracting revenge on people - that's stupid. Learn what the justice system is about.

2. Third world ****holes don't have high rates of incarceration because they have neither the resources for effective police nor the resources for a sufficient prison system. On top of that, cops are easily bribed in the developing world, thereby greatly lowering the instances of prosecution let alone incarceration.


Now, regarding our prisons being overpopulated, I suggest legalizing pot (as a start). That would bring justice to society, caning people would not.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Think about it.
If you discipline your kids with spanking what you are doing is teaching them, by example, that physical violence is the best way to resolve interpersonal conflicts.
Is that really what you want to impart on the development of your own kids?
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

ecofarm said:
I didn't claim incarceration teaches anyone anything. I merely pointed out that the purpose of the justice system is protection and redemption (see above) and caning addresses neither of those things.
Click to expand...

How does cages promote redemption? The current system is likely to make criminals worse than better, so unless I'm missing something I don't think it makes sense to say it promotes redemption. Can it even be a purpose of it when prisons guards are the leading cause of certain kinds of violence in prison?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom