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Parents: Punishing Kids [W:361]

is it ever allowable for a Parent to punish their child with force?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 68.3%

  • No

    Votes: 12 19.0%

  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 8 12.7%
  • Total voters
    63
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

CRUE CAB said:
Don't be coy, you know what I mean. You use a belt, switch, branch or whatever beyond the open hand. You should go to jail.
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What? I have used belts, rulers and a wooded dowel.

What object is used does not matter at all. Yes, some objects may look "cruel"- in the same way that some guns look "scary".

The amount of force used determines what is lawful and what is criminal. One parent could be well with in lawful force levels using a belt. Yet another parent could easily exceed lawful force levels using only his hands.

I could, using my hands, exceed what is lawful. One of the reason why I sometimes use a belt is the psychological aspect gets the point across faster and also because fewer blows are needed to make an impression.

CRUE CAB said:
If it so much a challenge that you need the threat of a weapon to steer your child, maybe you should rethink having kids.
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Once again, what object is used is totally and completely immaterial to the question whether the action was legal or not.
 
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Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
They don't have to fear you, they have to fear what you will do and what you would think of them for their transgression. Fear is an appropriate tool to use in child rearing. My family believes in corporal punishment. We don't call it punishment, we call it correction. That said, because we know we are genetically a stubborn lot we keep said corporal corrections to a absolute minimum to maximize there effectiveness. Our familial personality traits tend to clannish, intelligent, stubborn, and ill-tempered. So raising our children can be a challenge. Which means we have to start early and utilize a variety of methods. It also means there can be no slack on the parents part, we have to do what we say will every single time and make no exceptions. We are parents first and foremost, friendship is just a possible fringe benefit of being a parent. Our job as we see it is to produce a successful well adjusted and acclimated offspring, complete with all the mental tools necessary to face and overcome adverse circumstances with relative ease and confidence.
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This is just a parenting failure. If your kids fear you will physically beat them, you are doing it wrong. Fear is not an appropriate tool for use child rearing. Punishments needs to happen to correct children, and sometimes and ass whoppin is needed. But if you are leaving marks, and damn sure if you are drawing blood, or if your kids fear being beaten by you, then you are failing and are a child abuser trying to justify the abuse. I do agree that our kids need to be well adjusted. They need to do the right thing because its the right thing to do, not be terrified of being beaten by their parents if they mess up.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

iacardsfan said:
With the recent news of Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson being charged with child abuse in possibly two separate cases, I thought it would be a good time to pose the question of where to draw the line in punishing a child. It was always acceptable for me to get a spanking or slap when I was out of line as a kid, and that wasn't overly long ago. Now all of a sudden, Mr. Peterson is in hot water as a result. Granted, I was never spanked with a stick, but there were always some interesting objects involved. I just wanted to know if you believe it is allowable for an adult to use force that does not cause permanent damage in order to teach/ discipline their children. Please explain you answer.
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Up until the age that I can get them hooked on something else (TV, Internet, Video Games, Computer, Cell Phone) I'll use the paddle. However, if you can build the right relationship with your kid, then even that isn't necessary. However, there are some kids out there that nothing else will do.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Cryptic said:
What? I have used belts, rulers and a wooded dowel.

What object is used does not matter at all. Yes, some objects may look "cruel"- in the same way that some guns look "scary".

The amount of force used determines what is lawful and what is criminal. One parent could be well with in lawful force levels using a belt. Yet another parent could easily exceed lawful force levels using only his hands.

I could, using my hands, exceed what is lawful. One of the reason why I sometimes use a belt is the psychological aspect gets the point across faster and also because fewer blows are needed to make an impression.
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You are still going after someone with a weapon. Get mad at your neighbor and hit up side the head with a wooden dowel. See how it works out. Should be no different for your child.
An open hand to the butt through clothing is no going to injure or wound a child. Unless you cant control your anger and temper and wail away.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Cryptic said:
What? I have used belts, rulers and a wooded dowel.

What object is used does not matter at all. Yes, some objects may look "cruel"- in the same way that some guns look "scary".

The amount of force used determines what is lawful and what is criminal. One parent could be well with in lawful force levels using a belt. Yet another parent could easily exceed lawful force levels using only his hands.

I could, using my hands, exceed what is lawful. One of the reason why I sometimes use a belt is the psychological aspect gets the point across faster and also because fewer blows are needed to make an impression.
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I agree with this. You can spank a child with a belt within reason, and go too far with your hand.

Don't be coy, you know what I mean. You use a belt, switch, branch or whatever beyond the open hand. You should go to jail.
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I would suggest rather than the means, the ends. If a mark can be seen more than a day or two after the whoopin then its abuse.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
I wouldn't acquit you and the bat incident especially if it were committed against anyone in general. I would acquit AP as he was attempting to do his duty as a parent. It is not my place to interfere.
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Parental duty to beat your kids? Jesus what century did I wake up in?
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

CRUE CAB said:
Don't be coy, you know what I mean. You use a belt, switch, branch or whatever beyond the open hand. You should go to jail.
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Nothing wrong with breaking out the belt.

Long as you do things properly, it's all good.

Also, go to jail for using a belt? Spare us the bull****.

How do you feel about slippers? Those are popular with people of Latin American heritage. The ominous chacleta.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Hamster Buddha said:
Up until the age that I can get them hooked on something else (TV, Internet, Video Games, Computer, Cell Phone) I'll use the paddle. However, if you can build the right relationship with your kid, then even that isn't necessary. However, there are some kids out there that nothing else will do.
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There is also kids where spankings will cause them to get worse, not better.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Kreton said:
This is just a parenting failure. If your kids fear you will physically beat them, you are doing it wrong. Fear is not an appropriate tool for use child rearing. Punishments needs to happen to correct children, and sometimes and ass whoppin is needed. But if you are leaving marks, and damn sure if you are drawing blood, or if your kids fear being beaten by you, then you are failing and are a child abuser trying to justify the abuse. I do agree that our kids need to be well adjusted. They need to do the right thing because its the right thing to do, not be terrified of being beaten by their parents if they mess up.
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Oh hippie nonsense. Fear of punishment is a great tool (especially when the boys come calling for your little girl), as long as the child also knows you love them. You look at the kids who were raised 30,40, or 50 years ago (or more), they didn't have any trouble growing up adjusted. Have you seen the suicide rates among young people? It's worse today than it ever was back then! Obviously, they're not growing up "well adjusted".
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

CRUE CAB said:
If it so much a challenge that you need the threat of a weapon to steer your child, maybe you should rethink having kids.
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You don't jack or **** about how we raise our children. Notice nowhere in my quote did I mention once weapon, or implement or anything that could be construed as such.

We have raised children in our family, as family, for centuries back to before we made the move here to America, can yours say that? So we know a thing or two. I doubt highly your family can claim the same.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

CRUE CAB said:
You are still going after someone with a weapon. Get mad at your neighbor and hit up side the head with a wooden dowel. See how it works out. Should be no different for your child.
An open hand to the butt through clothing is no going to injure or wound a child. Unless you cant control your anger and temper and wail away.
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A mix of apples and oranges:

I have no authority to discipline my neighbor and would never attempt to do so. I do have authority to discipline my children and intend to do so when it is needed. Likewise, I have never hit my children in the head with anything. I have hit them on the rear and on their legs with several objects, including my hand.

Why are you fixated on whether or not an object is used? It is the amount of force that is important, not whether or not a "weapon" was used. For example, abusive force can be applied using only the hand. And.... one can use a dowel (a rod) and be well with in lawful limits.
 
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Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
There is also kids where spankings will cause them to get worse, not better.
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That doesn't negate the fact that there are kids out there that do require a spanking though. Like I said, there isn't a "one size fits all" when it comes to parenting, with my wife, she had such a relationship with her father that all he needed to do was say how disappointed he was with her, no force required. However, her brother had no respect for authority, and in fact during punishment would taunt it on, wanting it harder, and they would until he finally cried. The important part though came afterwards, and that was sitting him down and thinking about it letting him know that you still love him and that he learned the lesson.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

CRUE CAB said:
You are still going after someone with a weapon. Get mad at your neighbor and hit up side the head with a wooden dowel. See how it works out. Should be no different for your child.
An open hand to the butt through clothing is no going to injure or wound a child. Unless you cant control your anger and temper and wail away.
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A child, one below 5 years old, cannot be compared to a full grown adult who has fully matured. That is ridiculous.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

CRUE CAB said:
WTF is that supposed to mean. You don't see the difference in grabbing a weapon or the real nice "go pick out your switch, boy".
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I see the difference, and I reject both. The only reason anyone has to accept low-levels of violence against children is to excuse their own actions.

Spanking children teaches them one thing - violence is a way to get what one wants. Teaching children that, in itself, is abuse.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Hamster Buddha said:
Oh hippie nonsense. Fear of punishment is a great tool (especially when the boys come calling for your little girl), as long as the child also knows you love them. You look at the kids who were raised 30,40, or 50 years ago (or more), they didn't have any trouble growing up adjusted. Have you seen the suicide rates among young people? It's worse today than it ever was back then! Obviously, they're not growing up "well adjusted".
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Then how about more hippy nonsense. Kids should be taught to think for themselves and taught to follow rules due to reason, not because they don't want to be punished. The parenting techniques talked about in this thread only convey to children that they are to do what they are told and not ask any questions about it or to think for themselves. I frankly disagree with that mindset strongly.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

ecofarm said:
I see the difference, and I reject both. The only reason anyone has to accept low-levels of violence against children is to excuse their own actions.

Spanking children teaches them one thing - violence is a way to get what one wants. Teaching children that, in itself, is abuse.
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According to therapists it can cause people to lose a sense of themselves and never learn to follow their own will. I think people should be taught to be independent thinkers, not obedient drones.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

CRUE CAB said:
Parental duty to beat your kids? Jesus what century did I wake up in?
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Buddy I am old school like, old country old school, my family has raised generations of successful well adjusted children into successful well adjusted adults who continue our traditions. Its something we take exceptionally seriously. While I would not do what Mr. Peterson has done in correcting his child, it is not my place to interfere. He doing his parental duty to discipline his children. IMO its too bad many parents refuse to discipline their children.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Got some light hits with a hair brush and belt as a kid---but no big welts from it.

As I am not a Neo-Communist Liberal, I see children as part of a family unit, and not as a part of a Big Brother cult. So I say a kid that really derserved it getting a few welts from a switch as nothing major.

What is worse are all the sperm fathers in the NBA and NFL who aren't any real part of their children's lives. Fatherless kids in the urban ghettos joining gangs an even far worse problem.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
Then how about more hippy nonsense. Kids should be taught to think for themselves and taught to follow rules due to reason, not because they don't want to be punished. The parenting techniques talked about in this thread only convey to children that they are to do what they are told and not ask any questions about it or to think for themselves. I frankly disagree with that mindset strongly.
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Keep in mind that we're talking about children 5 years and younger in this, these are not adults, hell not even really kids yet. Some don't understand these things, and will only respond to force. I wish all kids were perfect and it wasn't necessary, but sometimes it is. I think a lot of the reason that kids are growing up as soft as they are today, and we are seeing the spike in depression and suicides, is the lack of structure that we have with kids. We treat them as adults, when they aren't ready. Push a bird out to early, and guess what happens?
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Winchester said:
Pretty much my thoughts. It's nonverbal communication to show displeasure with one's offspring, not to instill fear or pain.
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The most devastating punishment I ever gave to my oldest (10, at the time) was right after he lost his temper and went after a cousin with a hammer. I gave him the long stare and said "I am disappointed in you".

He fell apart instantly with the crying and apologizing.

I never had to touch him. The 'dad voice, the look, and those words took him apart.

I built him back up later by giving him special chores to do for his cousin and his aunt. He actually did a very good job as he wanted to redeem himself. Later I told him that I was proud of him for realizing his mistake, doing a good job with the make-up chores, and when I said the words "you aren't in trouble anymore" he started crying in relief.

IMO if you have to strike a child for anything other than legit self-defense (I've experienced some violent little children let me tell you what I have stories) or just to get their attention, you've already lost the situation.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
Its something we take exceptionally seriously.
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Oh, please! Everyone takes such things seriously. That's not an excuse to abuse children.

Your BS rhetoric is nothing more than:

I'm a good parent! I support beating children!
 
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Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
According to therapists it can cause people to lose a sense of themselves and never learn to follow their own will. I think people should be taught to be independent thinkers, not obedient drones.
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You know, if I was a more cynical person, I would find it interesting that the moment we started listening to therapist on how to raise children, mental health has become a serious issue for children. Conspiracy?

tin-foil-hat.jpg
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Hamster Buddha said:
Keep in mind that we're talking about children 5 years and younger in this, these are not adults, hell not even really kids yet. Some don't understand these things, and will only respond to force.
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My parents never used force. I have never used force. It's not necessary to use force. It's not necessarily bad to spank..and that might be a good option in many cases...but force is not necessary..there are many other punishment options.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

SouthernDemocrat said:
You realize that you don't own your children.
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I think of small children like pets, because if you stop and think about it that really is the level they're on.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Jerry said:
The most devastating punishment I ever gave to my oldest (10, at the time) was right after he lost his temper and went after a cousin with a hammer. I gave him the long stare and said "I am disappointed in you".

He fell apart instantly with the crying and apologizing.

I never had to touch him. The 'dad voice, the look, and those words took him apart.

I built him back up later by giving him special chores to do for his cousin and his aunt. He actually did a very good job as he wanted to redeem himself. Later I told him that I was proud of him for realizing his mistake, doing a good job with the make-up chores, and when I said the words "you aren't in trouble anymore" he started crying in relief.

IMO if you have to strike a child for anything other than legit self-defense (I've experienced some violent little children let me tell you what I have stories) or just to get their attention, you've already lost the situation.
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It also varies from parent to parent just how effective that punishment is. Father figures a lot of time have far more latitude to make the "I'm disappointed" argument. Mothers often don't have that sort of relationship with their kids in my experience.
 
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