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Parents: Punishing Kids [W:361]

is it ever allowable for a Parent to punish their child with force?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 68.3%

  • No

    Votes: 12 19.0%

  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 8 12.7%
  • Total voters
    63
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
Yes. Acquittal all counts. You don't get a say in the rearing of others children. Its none of your business.

You also don't know the whole story on the AP matter.
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Whole story? Saw the pics and he admits to it. So its pretty clear cut. And please tell me what a 4 year old could possibly do to deserve that?
Will some kids test you? Yea, I have friends and relatives who have children they let run wild and then wonder why the kid don't listen. But at 4 I really don't think a child has the mentality to really understand their actions.
So, if a 4 year old can push an adult that far. They adult is the one that needs correction.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
If a woman assaulted me she would have trouble causing me any real injury unless she picked up a weapon of some sort. If I decided to file charges against her the law would still prosecute her for assault. :shrug: Just because your assault didn't physically injure the individual you assaulted doesn't mean it's not assault. It just means that either you didn't apply enough force to cause injury or you were stopped before injury occurred.
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Not necessarily. Assault in my state requires both the intention to cause injury and an actual injury. If one or the other is missing it is not assault.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

SouthernDemocrat said:
You realize that you don't own your children.
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Really? I beg to differ. My family is very old school that way. Like I said society doesn't get a say in how our children are raised. My family doesn't brook ANY interference from anyone. Court rooms have been filled with my very annoyed kin and our attorneys before, its quite intimidating to outsiders, as its something that is not seen often. We don't play fair or nice or by the rules when it come to people messing with our children. Our children our responsibility till they reach the age of majority. We take that responsibility exceptionally seriously.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gaius46 said:
Not necessarily. Assault in my state requires both the intention to cause injury and an actual injury. If one or the other is missing it is not assault.
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:/

That's messed up.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

CRUE CAB said:
Whole story? Saw the pics and he admits to it. So its pretty clear cut. And please tell me what a 4 year old could possibly do to deserve that?
Will some kids test you? Yea, I have friends and relatives who have children they let run wild and then wonder why the kid don't listen. But at 4 I really don't think a child has the mentality to really understand their actions.
So, if a 4 year old can push an adult that far. They adult is the one that needs correction.
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Its none of our business. I would acquit AP all counts.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
Its none of our business. I would acquit AP all counts.
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Um, yea it is once its a crime. Or you are say that anyone that pushes my buttons I am free to take a ball bat to their heads.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gathomas88 said:
Exactly. My dad's a pretty relaxed and rational guy. He simply happens to have a temper. Most guys do.

That's why it's generally not considered to be a good idea to leave them all alone with small children. :lol:

They're simply not as well equipped to deal with that kind of stress as most women tend to be.

Don't get me wrong. I know he feels kind of bad about some of it, and he has made a deliberate effort to be more restrained with my younger siblings (I was the first of five).

However, I don't have any hard feelings over it. Stuff happens, and its not like he was ever "abusive" anyway. :shrug:
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Statistically anyway women are more likely to abuse children than men.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
Really? I beg to differ. My family is very old school that way. Like I said society doesn't get a say in how our children are raised. My family doesn't brook ANY interference from anyone. Court rooms have been filled with my very annoyed kin and our attorneys before, its quite intimidating to outsiders, as its something that is not seen often. We don't play fair or nice or by the rules when it come to people messing with our children. Our children our responsibility till they reach the age of majority. We take that responsibility exceptionally seriously.
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So you believe you own another human being? How does that work exactly?
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
Statistically anyway women are more likely to abuse children than men.
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That actually isn't true. More women than men are charged with child abuse, yes.

However, that is only because more women have access to children in the first place. When one accounts for the difference in population size, men are massively more likely to abuse children than women.

THE LIZ LIBRARY TABLE OF CONTENTS

Compare the above two calculations with the National Clearinghouse statistics that "[a]mong children in single-parent households, those living with only their fathers were approximately one and two-thirds times more likely to be physically abused than those living with only their mothers."
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So per individual, men abusers are represented by a risk ratio of 1080/90 compared with women who are 70/90.

So what we have calculated thus far is that, IF, according to incident reports, 70% of all child abuse is committed by women, then adjusting for the different statistical populations and applying our stated assumptions, men are 12 times as likely as women to perpetrate abuse against children, or put another way, they are 1100% more dangerous to children than are women.
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Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
Its none of our business. I would acquit AP all counts.
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Why protect anyone if that is your mindset? Quite honestly, most things that happen in this world are not my business. Why is it my business if someone is raped or killed? It's not really. Hell, chances are I won't even know about it.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gathomas88 said:
That actually isn't true. More women than men are charged with child abuse, yes.

However, that is only because more women have access to children in the first place. When one accounts for the difference in population size, men are massively more likely to abuse children than women.

THE LIZ LIBRARY TABLE OF CONTENTS

​

​
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Ok, I stand corrected.

In any case, it is interesting how this thread is going so far in that aspect.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Short version: Everything I have ever read on the topic, and personal experience, and common sense, says that severity of punishment is not as important as certainty.

A time-out that a child knows will happen is far more effective at making him think about his actions than a beating that may or may not happen.

Restrictions and taking away privileges can last a while and be far more devastating than a beating.

So while, if consistently applied, a spanking is an effective method of discipline, it's not necessary as other, non-physical punishments are equally effective.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Lutherf said:
Frankly, there are a lot of adults out there that would be better off if someone smacked them in the kisser just to get their attention every once in a while.
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Good luck with that.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

I voted yes. As a child all the way through my teenage years I was about as rotten a kid as you would find. Always in trouble for something. I wasn't mean just mischevious. I got swats as a child and always thought that the excitement of what I was doing wrong was worth the swats. That is until I was older. I got into some pretty bad trouble once when I was 17. My dad literally knocked me out. afterwords he explained why he did it. He didn't apologize he just told me what I was heading for. It was at that point I realized I was heading down a bad path. My dad and I are great friends and hang out all the time. I hold no bad feeling s towards him at all and still thank him to this day for making me understand where I was heading.

From that point until now I have never been in any kind of trouble at all.

My daughter is now 19 years old and in college doing great. In all of her years in this world she was only ever spanked once. She was 2 years old and threw a fit and knocked over a mirror on purpose. I popped her on the rear one time and sent her to her room. She never acted out again and we get along great. The difference is she wasn't like me. She was smarter. It only took once and she realized what it took me 17 years to learn.

I think every instance is different. I don't believe in hitting kids until they bleed but I do think Corporal Punishment is right in some cases. Just my opinion!
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
Really? I beg to differ. My family is very old school that way. Like I said society doesn't get a say in how our children are raised. My family doesn't brook ANY interference from anyone. Court rooms have been filled with my very annoyed kin and our attorneys before, its quite intimidating to outsiders, as its something that is not seen often. We don't play fair or nice or by the rules when it come to people messing with our children. Our children our responsibility till they reach the age of majority. We take that responsibility exceptionally seriously.
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Be that as it may, you cannot own another person, even your own child. Your kids are your responsibility and you can and should be able to raise them as you wish, but that does not extend so far as physical abuse or neglect.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Gaius46 said:
Not necessarily. Assault in my state requires both the intention to cause injury and an actual injury. If one or the other is missing it is not assault.
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Henrin said:
:/

That's messed up.
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Some states separate assault (threats) and battery (physical contact). He's probably from a state that assault means battery. Of course, threats would still be illegal, but they would be filed under another form of assault instead of having two different words.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

If beating someone teaches them something (other than using violence to get what one wants), why aren't beatings part of the justice system?
 
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Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

There is quite a lot of technique in karate involving the open hand. I think open hand would demand a lot finer definition.
Or not.
Its really not needed and only so effective. I got spanked once, only once, and as I eas mot very young at the time it bore truth to the expression 'this is going to hurt me more than you'. It eas written all over my dad's face.
Never gave his reason for a rematch after that.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

While I have never hit my own child (so far... knock on wood) I cannot judge others as to whether its wrong or not. I think every parent has to make their own decision because every child and each environment they grow in is different so I cant decide for others either way.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Nilly said:
Is there a reason that open hand is fine but some kind of instrument isn't? Or did you draw that line arbitrarily?
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While I appreciate his opposition to seriously hurting children, I think everyone knows why lines are drawn regarding this subject - to excuse ones own actions.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

Henrin said:
I don't want my children to fear me. It's just not how I want my relationship with them to be built. If it was your father and I found out you were scared of me I would do whatever I could to correct it.
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They don't have to fear you, they have to fear what you will do and what you would think of them for their transgression. Fear is an appropriate tool to use in child rearing. My family believes in corporal punishment. We don't call it punishment, we call it correction. That said, because we know we are genetically a stubborn lot we keep said corporal corrections to a absolute minimum to maximize there effectiveness. Our familial personality traits tend to clannish, intelligent, stubborn, and ill-tempered. So raising our children can be a challenge. Which means we have to start early and utilize a variety of methods. It also means there can be no slack on the parents part, we have to do what we say will every single time and make no exceptions. We are parents first and foremost, friendship is just a possible fringe benefit of being a parent. Our job as we see it is to produce a successful well adjusted and acclimated offspring, complete with all the mental tools necessary to face and overcome adverse circumstances with relative ease and confidence.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

ecofarm said:
While I appreciate his opposition to seriously hurting children, I think everyone knows why lines are drawn regarding this subject - to excuse ones own actions.
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WTF is that supposed to mean. You don't see the difference in grabbing a weapon or the real nice "go pick out your switch, boy". Yea, great parenting by illiterates.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

ecofarm said:
If beating children teaches them something (other than using violence to get what one wants), why aren't beatings part of the justice system for adults?
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Most peoples methods to get their children to behave are based on control and that the parents are always right and there is never a reason to question their authority. I have found that most parents have the same goals, but where they fail is in understanding their children and instead treat them as somehow fundamentally different than adults. They are in fact not all that different and the approach we use for them really shouldn't be derived from control. Though I suppose most people deal with each other by desiring to control them, so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.
 
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Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

PirateMk1 said:
They don't have to fear you, they have to fear what you will do and what you would think of them for their transgression. Fear is an appropriate tool to use in child rearing. My family believes in corporal punishment. We don't call it punishment, we call it correction. That said, because we know we are genetically a stubborn lot we keep said corporal corrections to a absolute minimum to maximize there effectiveness. Our familial personality traits tend to clannish, intelligent, stubborn, and ill-tempered. So raising our children can be a challenge. Which means we have to start early and utilize a variety of methods. It also means there can be no slack on the parents part, we have to do what we say will every single time and make no exceptions. We are parents first and foremost, friendship is just a possible fringe benefit of being a parent. Our job as we see it is to produce a successful well adjusted and acclimated offspring, complete with all the mental tools necessary to face and overcome adverse circumstances with relative ease and confidence.
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If it so much a challenge that you need the threat of a weapon to steer your child, maybe you should rethink having kids.
 
Re: Parents: Punishing Kids

CRUE CAB said:
Um, yea it is once its a crime. Or you are say that anyone that pushes my buttons I am free to take a ball bat to their heads.
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I wouldn't acquit you and the bat incident especially if it were committed against anyone in general. I would acquit AP as he was attempting to do his duty as a parent. It is not my place to interfere.
 
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