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Should the US Arm and Trian the Syrian Rebels?

Should the US Arm & Train the Syrian Rebels?


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The 9/11 hijackers were almost all Saudis. They trained in American flight schools. They didn't need the Taliban in Afghanistan to pull it off.

Yes, its a politically corrupt and ineffective state. The world is full of Islamists looking to take advantage of such weakness. Once again, what is the point of helping them if they can't defeat ISIS? Defeating ISIS won't make Iraq a model of democracy and good governance, it will just move one bunch of Islamic thugs out so another can take its place.

You are neglecting the part where they were trained in Afghanistan, or how Al Qaeda, the organization responsible for the attack, was based in Afghanistan. Don't get cute with the facts please. And if it take Iraq putting the jackboot to it's people to get things in order, at this point, I'm all for it.
 
The last CIA assessment put the total number at about 31k. Even if it were 30k in Iraq, my point still stands. If an active force of 271,500 trained military personnel cannot defeat a bunch of untrained thugs numbering around 30,000, then what is the point of helping them? If the Iraqi military is that weak and ineffective, then even if we killed every member of ISIS, some other bunch of Islamists would just rise up and take their place.


That's the point though.....ISIS has trained Military all from Saddam's Regime. A Chechen is running the Invisible Sheiks campaign in Syria. They have many experienced fighters. But they are continuing to recruit and this doesn't count the 30-40 Suicide Bombers they are sending out a week.


Islamic State 'has 50,000 fighters in Syria'......

The Islamic State group has an army of more than 50,000 fighters in Syria, and recruited 6,000 people in the last month, a monitoring group has said. "July saw the largest recruitment since the group appeared in Syria in 2013, with more than 6,000 new fighters," he said.

"The number of IS fighters has passed 50,000 in Syria, including 20,000 non-Syrians," he said. Al Jazeera cannot verify the observatory's figures. However, an Islamic State source backed the statement and told Al Jazeera that the group also had 30,000 fighters in Iraq.....snip~

Islamic State 'has 50,000 fighters in Syria' - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

So if BO and his Team are planning anything for just 30k.....we will be walking into a Hornets nest times 2. That's enough for 8 divisions.
 
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Nope. Absolutely not. Throughout history there are many instenses of using arming some "rebel group" turns around and bites us in the ass. And also because the FSA, yea some are moderate, but there are many hardcore extremists as well in the FSA. Its a loosely aligned, weak group of rebels.
 
Yep, and those swelling numbers in Syria are due in large part to the so-called moderate (though I've never believed they were, and have pointed it out all along) rebels joining the Islamic State ranks!

That's Right Monte. 29 Opposition groups and Civilian Committees. Which was back in 2012. Now even more.

Those civilian committees pretty much says it all.
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

Today, Congress is determining if we should give funds to Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels. So that they can fight ISIS. The Problem is the Syrian Rebels are not able to be trusted. They have used Chems and all they care about is removing Assad. Even their top commanders are all for a government that would be acceptable With Sharia Law.

They will say and do anything to get backing and assistance.....they have also pledged against the US. At least 29 opposition groups. While it is understandable to have the need to take on ISIS. This is a mistake waiting to Happen. What say ye?

First off, I don't think we should concern ourselves with the form of government they take in Syria. It's none of our business. As long as they are not threatening our assets, respecting our embassy, and playing nice diplomatically whether they have a sharia compliant form of government or not is none of our concern.
 
You are talking about what things have evolved to. Again, I'm not arguing we should support the rebels at this point, as that well is very much tainted. All I know is that in very beginning, when this civil war could of been averted, Assad chose to drop the hammer as he has always done because he's a Dictator who loves to abuse his power. It's only because of what that Rebels have become that I say we shouldn't support them. Still, that doesn't change the lesson from history, that if you support a dictator's government (either directly, or indirectly by not providing help when needed) it will come back to bite you in the ass like it did with the Shah.

Oh, and Bush also told us what a great friend Putin was.... how did that turn out?



Well.....what was Assad suppose to do finding out the MB and those who his father exiled.....but didn't kill. Were back stirring things up. I don't condone him for going after any innocents. But the MB used gangs of youths to run around and graffiti things up.

So Assad cracked down....and all knew he wouldn't care if the MB hid behind civilians, Women and Children. Using the Hamas format.

Yeah so far 10 all against arming the Rebels.....so far no BO Bots in supporting. Nor Neo Cons.
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

First off, I don't think we should concern ourselves with the form of government they take in Syria. It's none of our business. As long as they are not threatening our assets, respecting our embassy, and playing nice diplomatically whether they have a sharia compliant form of government or not is none of our concern.

What part about them pledging against the US wasn't a concern, again?
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

What part about them pledging against the US wasn't a concern, again?

I didn't make a comment about them pledging against the US. I strictly commented on their form of government they choose. If you'll read again, you'll also notice that it came with some very specific conditions such as not threatening our assets, respecting our embassy and playing nice diplomatically.

As for them pledging against the US, that would mean all bets are off and we don't arm or train. In fact, we go in with our own troops, do it for them and in compensation, dictate to them what government they will have and how their resources will be spent.
 
Well.....what was Assad suppose to do finding out the MB and those who his father exiled.....but didn't kill. Were back stirring things up. I don't condone him for going after any innocents. But the MB used gangs of youths to run around and graffiti things up.

So Assad cracked down....and all knew he wouldn't care if the MB hid behind civilians, Women and Children. Using the Hamas format.

Yeah so far 10 all against arming the Rebels.....so far no BO Bots in supporting. Nor Neo Cons.

Yeah but look what happened to the MB back then. I know we like to just think of MB as the crazy guys who took over Egypt for a short period of time, but back when they were a political party, there were banned from the country, made a capital punishment to be a part of the party. If that **** happened here, I'd probably be supporting them... at least up until the point the were going to cut my head off at least.
 
What part about them pledging against the US wasn't a concern, again?

I didn't make a comment about them pledging against the US. I strictly commented on their form of government they choose. If you'll read again, you'll also notice that it came with some very specific conditions such as not threatening our assets, respecting our embassy and playing nice diplomatically.

As for them pledging against the US, that would mean all bets are off and we don't arm or train. In fact, we go in with our own troops, do it for them and in compensation, dictate to them what government they will have and how their resources will be spent.

When did this conversation turn into Greek Week and Frat Parties?
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

Most of the Syrian Rebels are either AQ or ISIS or has ties to AQ and ISIS. The moderate Islamist Rebels are very small if they really existed. Secular Islamist Rebels, even the name of the moderates makes me wonder. Perhaps it is a name chosen by them because that is exactly what we want to believe.

Isn't it ironic that the Obama administration is participating and organizing or trying to all these regime changes.



Yeah they do keep falling back to the term Moderates.....look up that thread. In Honor of the Syrian Rebels. We have all their groups listed. Quite a bit of Info in there and all things that BO and his team knew about.
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

I didn't make a comment about them pledging against the US. I strictly commented on their form of government they choose. If you'll read again, you'll also notice that it came with some very specific conditions such as not threatening our assets, respecting our embassy and playing nice diplomatically.

As for them pledging against the US, that would mean all bets are off and we don't arm or train. In fact, we go in with our own troops, do it for them and in compensation, dictate to them what government they will have and how their resources will be spent.


Yeah I knew you didn't.....but then you got to the part about not listening to us. Like they did when they used the Chems.

There I agree with you. It will take our troops in Iraq on the ground.

Although....today BO was using some bass in his voice and talking about make no Mistake the troops in Iraq on the ground will not Be used for Combat. Even after all have told him.....this was the Best Solution he asked for.
 
Yeah but look what happened to the MB back then. I know we like to just think of MB as the crazy guys who took over Egypt for a short period of time, but back when they were a political party, there were banned from the country, made a capital punishment to be a part of the party. If that **** happened here, I'd probably be supporting them... at least up until the point the were going to cut my head off at least.


Nah, the MB(Sunni) has always been crazy(those Clerics who think they are more than what they really are).....that's why Gadhafi was about keeping them out of Libya politics. But then they finally found a way around him. Especially once they knew he had backing from those in Africa for a United states of Africa.
 
Trian? Triangulate? Train? Brian? Brain? ;)
 
Nah, the MB(Sunni) has always been crazy(those Clerics who think they are more than what they really are).....that's why Gadhafi was about keeping them out of Libya politics. But then they finally found a way around him. Especially once they knew he had backing from those in Africa for a United states of Africa.

This where I'm torn on this issue, and am not really sure where to be. In the US, we've had our fair share of crazies as well. The first and more prominent that come to mind is the KKK. There was a point in time in this country where they had a dominant influence in American politics. The peak being back in the early 1900's when you had that huge march of their's on DC. But as time moved along, we eventually came to realize as a society just how hateful that organization was.

kkk-march-washington-19281.jpg

I'd like to think the same could happened in the ME. But the problem is, that I don't believe it would occur until after we suffered another attack on the homeland, or at the very least Israel was burning.
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

Yeah I knew you didn't.....but then you got to the part about not listening to us. Like they did when they used the Chems.

There I agree with you. It will take our troops in Iraq on the ground.

Although....today BO was using some bass in his voice and talking about make no Mistake the troops in Iraq on the ground will not Be used for Combat. Even after all have told him.....this was the Best Solution he asked for.

Well I've never suffered any illusion that BO will make a sound decision regarding this conflict. Take that how you will.
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

Today, Congress is determining if we should give funds to Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels. So that they can fight ISIS. The Problem is the Syrian Rebels are not able to be trusted. They have used Chems and all they care about is removing Assad. Even their top commanders are all for a government that would be acceptable With Sharia Law.

They will say and do anything to get backing and assistance.....they have also pledged against the US. At least 29 opposition groups. While it is understandable to have the need to take on ISIS. This is a mistake waiting to Happen. What say ye?


I believe we should arm and train the Syrians and anybody else in the area that so desires, for a price why should they get such valuable knowledge and equipment for free. If they got cold hard cash we have available time and goods.
 
The last CIA assessment put the total number at about 31k. Even if it were 30k in Iraq, my point still stands. If an active force of 271,500 trained military personnel cannot defeat a bunch of untrained thugs numbering around 30,000, then what is the point of helping them? If the Iraqi military is that weak and ineffective, then even if we killed every member of ISIS, some other bunch of Islamists would just rise up and take their place.

You have a valid point. One of the big problems with the Iraqi Army is Maliki replaced a huge number of career officers with his cronies who were loyal to Maliki, but didn't know what the heck they were doing militarily. Without good leaders, it really doesn't matter what size the army is. What our bombing is doing, at least up to now is trying to keep a stalemate in place while we train new leaders or the new government recalls the old good career leaders to replace the loyal cronies Maliki put in charge.

Will it work? Who knows? The Kurds on the other hand are more than willing to fight ISIS and they have been successful with our help. But they do not want to venture far from their homeland, which leaves the rest of Iraq to the new government and hopefully a better lead force. But there are tons of questions yet to be answered.
 
Then why wasn't the Christians ever part of those beginning Demonstrations? Just why was the MB allowed to set up protests calling for Democratic Reform? In which many of them were exiled from Syria by Assad's Father. Which was after Pelosi and the Demos were running around at the End of Bush' term and calling Assad a Reformer. Also Assad gave Amnesty to those with no connection to the MB.

Also after the Sunni Rebels Suffered one of their first defeats.....they then went and attacked the Christians burning down their Churches and homes. Again they used Chems like Assad did. They don't care about the people.....and its been shown in their actions.

All that talking they do is front of the Camera is thru Al Jazeera and thru Sunni Communications and Broadcasting.

Yep, spot on brother.
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

Yeah they do keep falling back to the term Moderates.....look up that thread. In Honor of the Syrian Rebels. We have all their groups listed. Quite a bit of Info in there and all things that BO and his team knew about.

If I have my numbers right, there is around 5,000 Syrian moderates that we will be equiping and training. They are up against 30,000 man ISIS and the whole Syrian army estimated at 250,000 men. That is not too good of odds. At least those are the numbers the CIA released.
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

First off, I don't think we should concern ourselves with the form of government they take in Syria. It's none of our business. As long as they are not threatening our assets, respecting our embassy, and playing nice diplomatically whether they have a sharia compliant form of government or not is none of our concern.

Yep, which is the way things were for us in Syria all along.
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

If I have my numbers right, there is around 5,000 Syrian moderates that we will be equiping and training. They are up against 30,000 man ISIS and the whole Syrian army estimated at 250,000 men. That is not too good of odds. At least those are the numbers the CIA released.

And those five thousand US armed and trained so-called moderates will end up joining the Islamic State, watch!
 
Re: Should the US Arm and Train the Syrian Rebels?

If I have my numbers right, there is around 5,000 Syrian moderates that we will be equiping and training. They are up against 30,000 man ISIS and the whole Syrian army estimated at 250,000 men. That is not too good of odds. At least those are the numbers the CIA released.

Well like I have shown.....theres 50k in Syria. 30k in Iraq. Also the Syrian Rebels with the Largest force 25k fighters has made a pact with ISIS.

According to Agence France-Presse, ISIS and a number of moderate and hard-line rebel groups have agreed not to fight each other so that they can focus on taking down the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad. Other sources say the signatories include a major U.S. ally linked to the Free Syrian Army. The deal between ISIS and the moderate Syrian groups casts doubt over President Barack Obama's freshly announced strategy to arm and train the groups against ISIS. The AFP report cited information from the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a U.K.-based group monitoring the Syrian civil war, which said parties to the agreement "promise not to attack each other because they consider the principal enemy to be the Nussayri regime." The term Nussayri refers to the Alawite ethnic group that Assad and many of his supporters belong to. AFP said the agreement was signed in a suburb of the Syrian capital, where ISIS has a strong presence.

Charles Lister, a fellow at the Brookings Institution's Doha Center, cited a report from the anti-regime Orient Net website to suggest on Twitter that the signatories of the ceasefire include a U.S.-backed coalition called the Syrian Revolutionary Front. According to the U.K.-based outlet Middle East Eye, that same Orient Net report says the ceasefire between groups described in the U.S. as "moderate rebels" and the Islamic State was mediated by the al-Nusra Front, al Qaeda's affiliate in Syria. This news suggests that partners will be hard to find. Lister said the pact is a product of failed U.S.-led Western policy in Syria."This underlines serious frustration w. lack of US-backing to [Free Syrian Army] opposition in fight vs Assad," he tweeted. If true, Landis said, the news of a ceasefire proves Washington does not know who it can support or trust within the fractured country.....snip~

ISIS Strikes Deal With Moderate Syrian Rebels: Reports

This is what we discussed about it here. ;)

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ikes-deal-moderate-syrian-rebels-reports.html
 
This where I'm torn on this issue, and am not really sure where to be. In the US, we've had our fair share of crazies as well. The first and more prominent that come to mind is the KKK. There was a point in time in this country where they had a dominant influence in American politics. The peak being back in the early 1900's when you had that huge march of their's on DC. But as time moved along, we eventually came to realize as a society just how hateful that organization was.

View attachment 67173075

I'd like to think the same could happened in the ME. But the problem is, that I don't believe it would occur until after we suffered another attack on the homeland, or at the very least Israel was burning.


Well the difference with these crazies.....they are spreading and we already know they are working with AQAP and al Nusra which was another like the Ansar al Sharia groups. Whom they have recognized both Boko Haram and those in Benghazi with their Emirate. Which of course.....they will pledge fealty to ISIS.


After Syria and Iraq, Islamic State makes inroads in South Asia.....

Islamic State pamphlets and flags have appeared in parts of Pakistan and India, alongside signs that the ultra-radical group is inspiring militants even in the strongholds of the Taliban and al Qaeda. Al Qaeda's ageing leaders, mostly holed up in the lawless region along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, are increasingly seen as stale, tired and ineffectual on hardcore jihadi social media forums and Twitter accounts that incubate potential militant recruits. Security experts say Islamic State's increasing lure may have prompted al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahri to announce the establishment of an Indian franchise to raise the flag of jihad across South Asia, home to more than 400 million Muslims.

Signs of Islamic State's influence are also being seen in Kashmir, the region claimed by both India and Pakistan and the scene of a decades-long battle by militants against Indian rule. Security officials in Indian-held Kashmir say they have been trying to find out the level of support for the Arab group after IS flags and banners appeared in the summer. Intelligence and police sources in New Delhi and Kashmir said the flags were first seen on June 27 in a part of the state capital Srinagar, and then in July when India's only Muslim-majority region was marking Islam's most holy day, Eid al-Fitr.....snip~

After Syria and Iraq, Islamic State makes inroads in South Asia


Bo and his Team, already classified AQAP as the most dangerous of all their branches. They need to up the game covertly.
 
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