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Is ISIL Islamic?

Is ISIL Islamic

  • Total voters
    59
ecofarm said:
I didn't mean moral equation, I meant regarding the legitimacy of each claim. Certainly, most would claim Westboro are extremists that do not truly follow Christianity, while I think everyone agrees that the Pope does represent true Catholicism.
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Never said they dont "represent them" said they ARE Christian.
 
upsideguy said:
The KKK and Westboro are pervert versions of Christianity as is ISIL a perverted versions of Islam. Extremism usually is played out of bounds.
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Perversion ≠ they are christian/islamic/buddhist/"insert x religion here"
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Never said they dont "represent them" said they ARE Christian.
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But when you said ~"just as the Pope is Catholic", you seem to have entirely dropped the context of "just as" at the end of your sentence.

My point: it's not "just as", it's different.



Westboro is not to Christianity just as the Pope is to Catholicism.

Get it?
 
cpwill said:
Does "Islamic" really mean "what we in the West want Islam to be", or does "Islamic" mean... well.... Islamic.

Sparked by the below:
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1. Your reference says that "Islam means peace" - IIRC, Islam means "submission".

2. ISIL is every bit as Islamic as the Crusaders were mainstream "Christian".
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I never said "they represent them" I said they ARE Christian.
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Anyone can call themselves whatever they want. If they don't walk the walk and talk the talk then that proves them not to be what they claim....period. You however relish in highlighting on the hypocrisies instead of highlighting the good of the genuine because it plays into your political stance.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Yup just as Westboro is Christian, the KKK is Christian, and the Pope is Catholic.
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And that has what, to do with what? THis really was a trick question. cpwill actually meant to ask if Westboro, KKK and the Pope are Christian. I'm so glad you answered that question for me.
 
ecofarm said:
But when you said ~"just as the Pope is Catholic", you seem to have entirely dropped the context of "just as" at the end of your sentence.
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Nope. Ill add more to make you happy: Just as Desmond Tutu is Anglicanism, just as Joseph Smith is Mormon..

Westboro is not to Christianity just as the Pope is to Catholicism.

Get it?
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My point is. They are all what they claim they are. One is more extreme than the other, one is more fundamental, and one is less. They are all relgious and they all interpret things differently, and they are all more less funamdental, and barbaric about their religions.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Nope. Ill add more to make you happy: Just as Desmond Tutu is Anglicanism, just as Joseph Smith is Mormon..

My point is. They are all what they claim they are. One is more extreme than the other, one is more fundamental, and one is less. They are all relgious and they all interpret things differently, and they are all more less funamdental, and barbaric about their religions.
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I figured you would not get it. Oh well.
 
vesper said:
Anyone can call themselves whatever they want. If they don't walk the walk and talk the talk then that proves them not to be what they claim....period. You however relish in highlighting on the hypocrisies instead of highlighting the good of the genuine because it plays into your political stance.
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Yuhhhh where did I never said if you are religious you are all the same? And what does this have to do with any of my views on religion?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Yuhhhh where did I never said if you are religious you are all the same? And what does this have to do with any of my views on religion?
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Do you want me to do a search on the number of threads you have posted on this website that show your slanted, bias views toward people of faith often to mock them? Forget it. I am not going to waste the time, I know what I have read over the past year and what I am dealing with here. I have a drawer full of socks in multiple colors for you to choose arranging from all spectrums of the rainbow. Pick a color, I'll be glad to provide the sock you can stick it.
 
Yes, ISIL is Islamic and they are radical Islamists.

ISIL also calls itself a State. Whilst they certainly are not a State, they are radical Islamists.
 
vesper said:
Do you want me to do a search on the number of threads you have posted on this website that show your slanted, bias views toward people of faith often to mock them?
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Go right ahead. You will find I'm not very active in the religion section.
 
vesper said:
It doesn't take the "religious forum" to prove your standings. Cheers!
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This isnt about my "standings"? Im openly against organized religion. So what? So ISIS is "Islamic" in your book but Westboro, and the KKK arent?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
This isnt about my "standings"? Im openly against organized religion. So what? So ISIS is "Islamic" in your book but Westboro, and the KKK arent?
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Yes it is about your standings. You started this "stuff" so your "standings" are embedded in your posts. What I am trying to convey here is stop painting everyone with a broad brush for your political gain. That is disgusting and getting so old that most of us have lost all tolerance for it.
 
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vesper said:
Yes it is about your standings. You started this "stuff" so your "standings" are embedded in your posts. What I am trying to convey here is stop painting everyone with a broad brush for your political gain. That is disgusting and getting so old that most of us have lost all tolerance for it.
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That they are all religious and follow those teaching some more barbaric and violent than others? I also never painted anyone with a broad brush...

But here, never answered my question: So ISIS is "Islamic" in your book but Westboro, and the KKK arent?

Being religious does not make one better than the other..
 
Glen Contrarian said:
1. Your reference says that "Islam means peace" - IIRC, Islam means "submission".
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Actually he is citing Bush saying that, pointing out that the deliberate misrepresentation of our enemies is a bipartisan enterprise.

2. ISIL is every bit as Islamic as the Crusaders were mainstream "Christian".
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:shrug:
 
When you think "Christianity", people tend to think a certain thing based on what mainstream Christianity is.
When you think "Islam", people *should* tend to think a certain thing based on what mainstream Islam is.

The problem is, the acts of a few are distorting that mainstream belief.

The radical fringe which makes up well under 1% of the world's population of Islam should not redefine what we think of Islam. Just like we wouldn't allow the KKK and Westboro to redefine what people think Christianity is.

Islam is an easy target for this distortion, though; it's largely a distant religion and our most prominent exposure to it is self-described Muslims killing, killing, and killing some more.

To counter that, our leaders try to get the point across that the acts of that tiny minority do not represent the whole. Bush and Obama both tried to send this message, to various degrees of success.

Was it clumsy for Obama to say "they aren't Islamic"? Maybe. But I also see a lot of people around here deliberately missing the point just to complain.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
That they are all religious and follow those teaching some more barbaric and violent than others? I also never painted anyone with a broad brush...

But here, never answered my question: So ISIS is "Islamic" in your book but Westboro, and the KKK arent?

Being religious does not make one better than the other..
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In my book none represent the religion they claim to. Go it? They are called extremists for a reason. Got it? And when we let extremism paralyze us, to the point of denying us our freedoms, liberties it has to be rectified. Got it? The Westboro Baptist people in our country have been put into their place. They can manipulate their rights under our laws but have been stifled by We the People. Same with the KKK. That is just one minute example that makes this country so exceptional. Muslim countries dealing with such extremism don't have such a form of government in place. They have allowed this extremism to take hold. Israel is the only example in the Middle East that by example thwarts extremism and allows religious liberty. That is why in most part they are so hated in the region.
 
vesper said:
In my book none represent the religion they claim to. Go it? They are called extremists for a reason. Got it? And when we let extremism paralyze us, to the point of denying us our freedoms, liberties it has to be rectified. Got it? The Westboro Baptist people in our country have been put into their place. They can manipulate their rights under our laws but have been stifled by We the People. Same with the KKK. That is just one minute example that makes this country so exceptional. Muslim countries dealing with such extremism don't have such a form of government in place. They have allowed this extremism to take hold. Israel is the only example in the Middle East that by example thwarts extremism and allows religious liberty. That is why in most part they are so hated in the region.
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What makes them not a religion? Simply because they "deny freedoms, and liberty"? Religion from the dawn of time has done this, be it gay marriage, womens rights, justification for slavery.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
What makes them not a religion? Simply because they "deny freedoms, and liberty"? Religion from the dawn of time has done this, be it gay marriage, womens rights, justification for slavery.
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Religion for the most part is man made. Faith in God and living a life pleasing to Him is not just a religion but a way of life. Big difference. You don't go around killing your neighbor over differnces in ideology which today many Muslims do. All three major religions go back to their beginnings to Father Abraham. Jew, Christian and Muslim. Abraham was from a city in Mesopotamia called Ur. This city has been excavated by scientists/archeologists that prove this area at that time was well civilized and quite the metropolitan area of its day. Yet as the account goes, Abraham is called to leave this area and go to a place that is the armpit of the world. The crap that was going on in Caanan at that time in a moral perspective would shock most. It turns out that this area would be the bridge that connects the East with the West. Abraham didn't hesitate to take his father with him on this journey even though he was a worshiper of the Moon god at that time which was common practice in the Mesopotamia area and also at that time some engaged in human sacrifice. After all blood is thicker than water. So even within Abraham's immediate family there were factions in regard to faith. One might say nothing has changed.
 
vesper said:
Religion for the most part is man made. Faith in God and living a life pleasing to Him is not just a religion but a way of life. Big difference. You don't go around killing your neighbor over differnces in ideology which today many Muslims do. All three major religions go back to their beginnings to Father Abraham. Jew, Christian and Muslim. Abraham was from a city in Mesopotamia called Ur. This city has been excavated by scientists/archeologists that prove this area at that time was well civilized and quite the metropolitan area of its day. Yet as the account goes, Abraham is called to leave this area and go to a place that is the armpit of the world. The crap that was going on in Caanan at that time in a moral perspective would shock most. It turns out that this area would be the bridge that connects the East with the West. Abraham didn't hesitate to take his father with him on this journey even though he was a worshiper of the Moon god at that time which was common practice in the Mesopotamia area and also at that time some engaged in human sacrifice. After all blood is thicker than water. So even within Abraham's immediate family there were factions in regard to faith. One might say nothing has changed.
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So ISIS isnt a Islamic cuz they kill people in the name of God? But anyone can find justification for killing people in all 3 major Abrhamic faiths
 
TheDemSocialist said:
So ISIS isnt a Islamic cuz they kill people in the name of God? But anyone can find justification for killing people in all 3 major Abrhamic faiths
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That is a BS statement. But it doesn't surprise me you would be the one to post it. You love taking things out of context making them what you want them to be. After all in your political, religious state, ..,,,,,,,,,you are bankrupt and have no choice to but incenerate to continue. Cheers!
 
vesper said:
That is a BS statement. But it doesn't surprise me you would be the one to post it. You love taking things out of context making them what you want them to be. After all in your political, religious state, ..,,,,,,,,,you are bankrupt and have no choice to but incenerate to continue. Cheers!
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His positions are nothing but context drops and false equivalence. It's like a mad race to the bottom.
 
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