• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

Thoughts on Presidents Speech about ISIS and US Actions?

  • Positive

    Votes: 11 21.6%

  • Negative

    Votes: 18 35.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 22 43.1%
  • Total voters
    51
cpwill said:
:shrug: Reality doesn't care if you reject it or not. I would suggest you read up on the Comintern, and its successor directorates. These were people who very much did indeed believe what they said they did when it came to ideology. Corrupt Western bourgeoisie democracy was to be overthrown around the world and replaced. Like ISIS today, these people divided the world into two basic camps: Those who were subservient, and those who were enemies.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, as though the US hasn't divided the world in similar fashion.
 
The five strategic failures in the speech are:
Failing to define the global threat and a global strategy to defeat it
Failing to define a positive goal
Failing to explain how we are going to compel so-called allies to do what is necessary to defeat radical Islamism
Failing to explain how hard and long and frustrating this war will be
Failing to ask for the resources this kind of war will require
If left uncorrected these five failures doom the President’s plan to failure.

Let me explain each failure and why it must be fixed.

1. Radical Islamism is not an Iraqi or Syrian problem. Radical Islamism has supporters, advocates, recruiters and sources of resources all across the planet.
As we learned on September 11, 2001, it only takes a few people to do incredible damage. There are more than 10,000 terrorists from over 50 countries who have joined ISIS. Here in the United States, there are recruiters and supporters of ISIS.
Well over 100 Americans have joined ISIS. Two Minnesotans have been killed in Syria. One of them had clearance to work on the runway of the Minneapolis Airport for a decade. We are lucky he decided to take his terrorist activities to Syria instead of to his day job.
Radical Islamism includes Boko Haram in Nigeria, elements in Libya, Hamas in Gaza and dozens of groups around the world. President Obama failed to have any global strategy for a viral movement which requires analyzing the problem as an epidemic rather than as a problem between nation-states.

Without a global strategy we will simply continue the 13-year pattern of failure and the radical Islamist movement will continue to grow.

2. The worst moment of President Obama's speech was his suggestion that Somalia and Yemen were models of success that his anti-ISIS campaign could follow.
Both Somalia and Yemen are disasters. Both are host to rampant terrorist activity. Somalia has virtually no government. Yemen has a very weak government which may not survive. If this is the Obama vision of success, it is a horrifying accumulation of human poverty, misery and violence which Americans should repudiate.
The President is trapped because he is being forced into a fight he doesn't particularly want and he is determined to do as little as possible. That is a formula for imposing violence and destruction on a lot of innocent people who can't defend and protect themselves. America has to develop a positive strategy of growing reliable, self-governing allies. That requires confronting the reality that both anti-terrorism and counter-insurgency campaigns are inadequate models. We do not have the doctrine, the training or the tools today for that project.

3. One of the great failures in the 13 years since 9/11 has been our failure to develop a system for compelling our allies to cooperate in defeating radical Islamism.
Qatar is currently the most visible example of a tiny country run like a medieval fiefdom using its oil and gas wealth to openly subsidize fanatics who want to destroy us. The Saudis are notorious for funding madrassas (Islamic schools) which produce terrorists.

We have to be prepared to exert far more pressure on countries who are undermining the war against radical Islamism. Qatar is a sufficiently small country that its ruling dynasty should be informed that in the absence of policy changes, there will be a regime change. We do not have to helplessly wring our diplomatic hands while they fund those who would cut off our heads. Our Navy alone could persuade the Qataris in a day or two that an anti- Radical policy would be healthier.

4. Sadly, this war with radical Islamism may go on for a long time. Politicians are already asking for an “exit strategy”. When you face enemies who want to cut off your heads and destroy your civilization, the only exit strategy is victory.

We spent 46 years containing the Soviet Union until it collapsed. We may have to spend half of a century or more hunting down radicals, growing reliable self-governing allies, and convincing friends and neutrals to be anti-radical.

Any politician's promise of a quick victory or a glib exit strategy is a fantasy and should be treated with contempt. We can grow prosperity, sustain freedom and live good lives while waging a relentless, unending campaign against radical Islamism but we will have to sustain that campaign for a long time.

5. All this will require new resources, new programs, and potentially new institutions. We went through that process of programmatic and institutional invention in the early stages of the Cold War. We have to do so again. The failure to address the resource issue was the biggest sign President Obama and his team had not really thought through the war they were announcing.

(Quoted from Newt Gingrich)
 
Montecresto said:
Ah yes, as though the US hasn't divided the world in similar fashion.
Click to expand...

that is correct, we have not. Which is why I asked earlier if anyone could tell me about when the US invaded France for leaving NATO.
 
GBFAN said:
The five strategic failures in the speech are:
Failing to define the global threat and a global strategy to defeat it
Failing to define a positive goal
Failing to explain how we are going to compel so-called allies to do what is necessary to defeat radical Islamism
Failing to explain how hard and long and frustrating this war will be
Failing to ask for the resources this kind of war will require
If left uncorrected these five failures doom the President’s plan to failure.

Let me explain each failure and why it must be fixed.

1. Radical Islamism is not an Iraqi or Syrian problem. Radical Islamism has supporters, advocates, recruiters and sources of resources all across the planet.
As we learned on September 11, 2001, it only takes a few people to do incredible damage. There are more than 10,000 terrorists from over 50 countries who have joined ISIS. Here in the United States, there are recruiters and supporters of ISIS.
Well over 100 Americans have joined ISIS. Two Minnesotans have been killed in Syria. One of them had clearance to work on the runway of the Minneapolis Airport for a decade. We are lucky he decided to take his terrorist activities to Syria instead of to his day job.
Radical Islamism includes Boko Haram in Nigeria, elements in Libya, Hamas in Gaza and dozens of groups around the world. President Obama failed to have any global strategy for a viral movement which requires analyzing the problem as an epidemic rather than as a problem between nation-states.

Without a global strategy we will simply continue the 13-year pattern of failure and the radical Islamist movement will continue to grow.

2. The worst moment of President Obama's speech was his suggestion that Somalia and Yemen were models of success that his anti-ISIS campaign could follow.
Both Somalia and Yemen are disasters. Both are host to rampant terrorist activity. Somalia has virtually no government. Yemen has a very weak government which may not survive. If this is the Obama vision of success, it is a horrifying accumulation of human poverty, misery and violence which Americans should repudiate.
The President is trapped because he is being forced into a fight he doesn't particularly want and he is determined to do as little as possible. That is a formula for imposing violence and destruction on a lot of innocent people who can't defend and protect themselves. America has to develop a positive strategy of growing reliable, self-governing allies. That requires confronting the reality that both anti-terrorism and counter-insurgency campaigns are inadequate models. We do not have the doctrine, the training or the tools today for that project.

3. One of the great failures in the 13 years since 9/11 has been our failure to develop a system for compelling our allies to cooperate in defeating radical Islamism.
Qatar is currently the most visible example of a tiny country run like a medieval fiefdom using its oil and gas wealth to openly subsidize fanatics who want to destroy us. The Saudis are notorious for funding madrassas (Islamic schools) which produce terrorists.

We have to be prepared to exert far more pressure on countries who are undermining the war against radical Islamism. Qatar is a sufficiently small country that its ruling dynasty should be informed that in the absence of policy changes, there will be a regime change. We do not have to helplessly wring our diplomatic hands while they fund those who would cut off our heads. Our Navy alone could persuade the Qataris in a day or two that an anti- Radical policy would be healthier.

4. Sadly, this war with radical Islamism may go on for a long time. Politicians are already asking for an “exit strategy”. When you face enemies who want to cut off your heads and destroy your civilization, the only exit strategy is victory.

We spent 46 years containing the Soviet Union until it collapsed. We may have to spend half of a century or more hunting down radicals, growing reliable self-governing allies, and convincing friends and neutrals to be anti-radical.

Any politician's promise of a quick victory or a glib exit strategy is a fantasy and should be treated with contempt. We can grow prosperity, sustain freedom and live good lives while waging a relentless, unending campaign against radical Islamism but we will have to sustain that campaign for a long time.

5. All this will require new resources, new programs, and potentially new institutions. We went through that process of programmatic and institutional invention in the early stages of the Cold War. We have to do so again. The failure to address the resource issue was the biggest sign President Obama and his team had not really thought through the war they were announcing.

(Quoted from Newt Gingrich)
Click to expand...

_______Newt Gingrich!!!!
 
Montecresto said:
I'm saying that our ally at the time, the Soviet Union, lost far more, and suffered far more then we did, and that they learned some brutal lessons which caused them to rethink the security of their borders and the disposition of those states that lay upon it. And, that the very same thing is at play now with their justifiable concerns of NATO that has expanded six times to the east since its creation!
Click to expand...

poland was cut in half in 1939 and was occupied for 40 years. is their nationhood expendable?

same issue with the czech republic. same issue with the baltic states. same issue with hungary. same issue with romania.

do they have no say in whether they deserve self governence?
 
cpwill said:
that is correct, we have not. Which is why I asked earlier if anyone could tell me about when the US invaded France for leaving NATO.
Click to expand...

Can you name a country that departed the Soviet Union that either the Soviet Union or Russia, hasn't invaded? And, the US has indeed decided the world as such in the past. Numerous left leaning democracies in Latin America succumbed to regime change and were replaced by right wing dictatorships on the supposed merits that they would have been sympathetic to or outright supported or became communist states. And you know this CP.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
poland was cut in half in 1939 and was occupied for 40 years. is their nationhood expendable?

same issue with the czech republic. same issue with the baltic states. same issue with hungary. same issue with romania.

do they have no say in whether they deserve self governence?
Click to expand...

So we can name many countries that suffered regime change at the hands of the US that were perceived to be either communist sympathisers, or outright communist satalites.
 
Montecresto said:
_______Newt Gingrich!!!!
Click to expand...

WHATEVER you do, don't read the text. DON'T let facts confuse you. DON'T consider alternative positions.

Be confident in the righteousness of your uninformed opinion formed by listening to 15 second sound bytes on MSNBC.

God forbid you should actually become knowledgeable about something.
 
GBFAN said:
WHATEVER you do, don't read the text. DON'T let facts confuse you. DON'T consider alternative positions.

Be confident in the righteousness of your uninformed opinion formed by listening to 15 second sound bytes on MSNBC.

God forbid you should actually become knowledgeable about something.
Click to expand...

I'm not informed by Newt Gingrich, he's a has been, what can I say. If I told you Noam Chomsky's or Ron Paul's position, would you become informed, or reject them as irrelevant?
 
Montecresto said:
I'm not informed by Newt Gingrich, he's a has been, what can I say. If I told you Noam Chomsky's or Ron Paul's position, would you become informed, or reject them as irrelevant?
Click to expand...

Do you believe no one is informed regarding their positions and rejects them?
 
ecofarm said:
Do you believe no one is informed regarding their positions and rejects them?
Click to expand...

Do you believe that wine ferments to about 14% and that Thunderbird is fortified??
 
Montecresto said:
I'm not informed by Newt Gingrich, he's a has been, what can I say. If I told you Noam Chomsky's or Ron Paul's position, would you become informed, or reject them as irrelevant?
Click to expand...

As a matter of fact, as much I philosophically disagree with both Ron Paul and Chomsky, I have read their inputs ... THEN I rejected them.

You didn't even do Gingrich the courtesy of an intelligent rejection.
 
GBFAN said:
As a matter of fact, as much I philosophically disagree with both Ron Paul and Chomsky, I have read their inputs ... THEN I rejected them.

You didn't even do Gingrich the courtesy of an intelligent rejection.
Click to expand...

Give me your intelligent rejection of Chomsky and Ron Paul.
 
Montecresto said:
Give me your intelligent rejection of Chomsky and Ron Paul.
Click to expand...

See what I mean? You couldn't even read a 25 word sentence and get it right.

I reject the positions of Chomsky and Paul, depending on their position on the particular issue involved.

Your question indicates that I would reject them categorically ... much like your approach. I reject that ....
 
GBFAN said:
See what I mean? You couldn't even read a 25 word sentence and get it right.

I reject the positions of Chomsky and Paul, depending on their position on the particular issue involved.

Your question indicates that I would reject them categorically ... much like your approach. I reject that ....
Click to expand...

Funny you!
 
cpwill said:
[...] These were people who very much did indeed believe what they said they did when it came to ideology. [...] Like ISIS today, these people divided the world into two basic camps: Those who were subservient, and those who were enemies.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the GOP ideology too ;)
 
TheDemSocialist said:
What are your thoughts on the Presidents speech about ISIS?
Click to expand...
Didn't watch it, but based on the reporting I am sure it qualifies as an Alice in Wonderland moment, which only goes to show that Ike was right.
 
Karl said:
Sounds like the GOP ideology too ;)
Click to expand...

Throughout several US administrations, there was an us (capitalism) verses them (socialism/Communism) divide. Several left leaning democracies (feared to be communist) were subjected to regime change, replaced by right wing dictatorships!
 
Montecresto said:
Can you name a country that departed the Soviet Union that either the Soviet Union or Russia, hasn't invaded?
Click to expand...

That's sort of the point, Monte. We didn't force France, the Soviets did force the Czechs, the Hungarians, etc.
 
Thoughts?

The mid terms are coming and Americans love a good war with few U.S. casualties and lots of explosions on the news.

What better way to distract Americans from a mediocre economy that refuses to rev up, rising national debt and inept leadership?

ISIS is just what the doctor ordered.

No real threat to America but the beheading's and threats scare the (since 9/11) spineless American masses.

Blowing a few hundred of them up should raise the Dems poll numbers nicely.
 
cpwill said:
That's sort of the point, Monte. We didn't force France, the Soviets did force the Czechs, the Hungarians, etc.
Click to expand...

So you missed it. One country left NATO and hasn't been invaded over it, is there not more then one country that had left the USSR that didn't get invaded?
 
DA60 said:
Thoughts?

The mid terms are coming and Americans love a good war with few U.S. casualties and lots of explosions on the news.

What better way to distract Americans from a mediocre economy that refuses to rev up, rising national debt and inept leadership?

ISIS is just what the doctor ordered.

No real threat to America but the beheading's and threats scare the (since 9/11) spineless American masses.

Blowing a few hundred of them up should raise the Dems poll numbers nicely.
Click to expand...

Well, I will agree with you that this is being hyped out of proportion. But many of the hypsters, are republicans like Graham and McCain.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom