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Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 11.4%

  • No

    Votes: 73 55.3%

  • Yes and no

    Votes: 28 21.2%

  • Something else

    Votes: 16 12.1%
  • Total voters
    132
Johnny Ace said:
The Crusades were a response to Muslim invaders who did the same thing ISIS and other Muslims do today.
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Actually no, when the first crusade was launched the Muslims had control of the Holy Land for centuries, and pilgrimage for Christians continued completely unhindered and Christians were allowed to continue to live their lives as they were. The reasons the first crusade wa slanched at least was a) help the Pope regain legitimacy from the Holy Roman Empire's anti-pope (yes, that was a real thing) and b) to help the Byzantines regain their land that they recently lost to the Muslim Turks.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I was responding to his broad statement that, Islam doesn't want to coexist.
That's factually untrue.

There are denominations, ethnic groups, schools of thought, in Islam that are tolerant.
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No, it isn't untrue. Islam is profoundly less tolerant than any religion on earth. When a religion harasses and murders those who convert to another religion, that's insanity.
 
Carjosse said:
Actually no, when the first crusade was launched the Muslims had control of the Holy Land for centuries, and pilgrimage for Christians continued completely unhindered and Christians were allowed to continue to live their lives as they were. The reasons the first crusade wa slanched at least was a) help the Pope regain legitimacy from the Holy Roman Empire's anti-pope (yes, that was a real thing) and b) to help the Byzantines regain their land that they recently lost to the Muslim Turks.
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Nope. I'm talking about way before that. Christians and Jews were invaded by Muslims. the Christians and Jews lived together for centuries in peace until the founding of Mohammedism.
 
Gardener said:
It is absolutely true.

The Koran is one long invocation to join Islam or be killed. It even instructs Muslims on the proper method for decapitating their enemies. There may be peaceful Muslims, but that does not change the supremacist nature of the actual religion.
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Lots of religious texts do this.
Only the fundies actually (or attempt to) follow it.

Not all Muslims are fundies.
 
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shrubnose said:
What's stopping you from starting one, besides fear and distance?

:lol:

Get on over there and get after it.
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No fear. I am speaking up. My family has fought over there.
 
Johnny Ace said:
Ancient history. Christians aren't the problem in the world today. Muslims are.
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So Christianity used to be, by your words "insanity" but now it's not?

Some are sure, but Kurds, Sufi's, Amahdiyyas, Ibadis are pretty darn tolerant.
Not to mention that schools of Islam like Mutazila and Ashari.
 
Johnny Ace said:
Nope. I'm talking about way before that. Christians and Jews were invaded by Muslims. the Christians and Jews lived together for centuries in peace until the founding of Mohammedism.
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Well those lands were Christian or Jewish but they were not a at peace they were rife with tribal conflict. Islam somewhat brought more stability as being a Muslim is supposed to have precedence over loyalty to your tribe. After they were conquered they were allowed to live their lives as before, until the British came after WWI and segregated the populations and pitted them against each other.
 
Carjosse said:
Well those lands were Christian or Jewish but they were not a at peace they were rife with tribal conflict. Islam somewhat brought more stability as being a Muslim is supposed to have precedence over loyalty to your tribe. After they were conquered they were allowed to live their lives as before, until the British came after WWI and segregated the populations and pitted them against each other.
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They were not having near as much conflict as the Muslim invaders brought. I love Jews and Christians. I don't want to be near anything muslim. It's evil.
 
Johnny Ace said:
They were not having near as much conflict as the Muslim invaders brought. I love Jews and Christians. I don't want to be near anything muslim. It's evil.
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The Muslims brought decades of peace and stability to the region. It is just ignorant to say that.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Lots of religious texts do this.
Only the fundies actually (or attempt to) follow it.

Not all Muslims are fundies.
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It sounds as if you are just making up a bunch of feel good statements as you go instead of knowing the subject matter.

I will say it again since you refused to acknowledge it first time around -- all Islamic countries have laws on the books for apostasy (and blasphemy as well) up to and including the death penalty.

That evidently did not sink in the first time around as you have simply predetermined you must defend Islam and refuse to take in any information that contradicts your preconceptions.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
So Christianity used to be, by your words "insanity" but now it's not?

Some are sure, but Kurds, Sufi's, Amahdiyyas, Ibadis are pretty darn tolerant.
Not to mention that schools of Islam like Mutazila and Ashari.
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And the Three populations you mention are All in the 1%-2% range.

Most Muslims don't believe what/How ISIS does, but the views are nonetheless, pretty Disturbing.
Many more questions/categories can be found at the Pew Link below.

Significant minorities to healthy Majorities of Muslims hold views that would make what YOU would call Christian 'extremists'/literalists/fundmentalists look like the relative Choir boys they are.

I call wanting to Stone Adulterers and Kill Apostates "extremist", You?

Chapter 1: Beliefs About Sharia | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

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And please note: The poll, if anything makes Muslims look more moderate.
It Leaves out ie, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc, but includes TINY Euro-Muslim populations such as 'Bosnia'.
 
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Gardener said:
It sounds as if you are just making up a bunch of feel good statements as you go instead of knowing the subject matter.

I will say it again since you refused to acknowledge it first time around -- all Islamic countries have laws on the books for apostasy (and blasphemy as well) up to and including the death penalty.

That evidently did not sink in the first time around as you have simply predetermined you must defend Islam and refuse to take in any information that contradicts your preconceptions.
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Actually had nothing to do with what I was responding to.

But none the less, we can do this as well.
I'm not defending individual problems with Islam or Islamic nations.
I'm defending the notion that they aren't redeemable, which I believe to be false.

You want to criticize individual issues within the religion and/or it's nation, I'm fine with that and will likely agree.
With that said, I can't support blanket and rather ignorant statements.
 
Carjosse said:
Well those lands were Christian or Jewish but they were not a at peace they were rife with tribal conflict. Islam somewhat brought more stability as being a Muslim is supposed to have precedence over loyalty to your tribe. After they were conquered they were allowed to live their lives as before, until the British came after WWI and segregated the populations and pitted them against each other.
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No, people were barely tolerated and allowed to live as distinctly second-class citizens.

Southern plantation owners brought " stability" to the south in much the same manner as you support here.
 
mbig said:
And the Three populations you mention are All in the 1%-2% range.

Most don't believe what ISIS does, but the views are nonetheless, pretty Disturbing.
Many more questions/categories can be found at the Pew Link below.

Significant minorities to healthy Majorities of Muslims hold views that would make what YOU would call Christian 'extremists'/literalists/fundmentalists look like the relative Choir boys they are.

I call wanting to Stone Adulterers and Kill Apostates "extremist", You?

Chapter 1: Beliefs About Sharia | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

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gsi2-chp1-9.png
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Comparatively no I wouldn't.
That's a comparison within themselves though.

They've got a lot of ground to cover before they get to similarly modeled western ideals, which is perfectly fine to criticize.
 
Carjosse said:
The Muslims brought decades of peace and stability to the region. It is just ignorant to say that.
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Bull. No ignorance here. Islam is an evil hateful barbaric savage cult. The world would be a better place without it.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Actually had nothing to do with what I was responding to.

But none the less, we can do this as well.
I'm not defending individual problems with Islam or Islamic nations.
I'm defending the notion that they aren't redeemable, which I believe to be false.

You want to criticize individual issues within the religion and/or it's nation, I'm fine with that and will likely agree.
With that said, I can't support blanket and rather ignorant statements.
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You should not be making ignorant statements designed as feel-good measures, then.

Your refusing to acknowledge facts and dismissal of extremely relevant information as irrelevant does not reflect upon you well.
 
Gardener said:
No, people were barely tolerated and allowed to live as distinctly second-class citizens.

Southern plantation owners brought " stability" to the south in much the same manner as you support here.
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They had to pay a tax which was progressive for the time, but they were not slaughtered en masse as many want to believe. Christian Europe was not exactly a bastion of peace and equality either. Muslims under Christian colonial rule were treated far worse in later centuries.
 
Gardener said:
You should not be making ignorant statements designed as feel-good measures, then.

Your refusing to acknowledge facts and dismissal of extremely relevant information as irrelevant does not reflect upon you well.
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I do acknowledge facts, I acknowledge that blanket statements and outright hostility aren't going to make things better.
 
Carjosse said:
They had to pay a tax which was progressive for the time, but they were not slaughtered en masse as many want to believe. Christian Europe was not exactly a bastion of peace and equality either. Muslims under Christian colonial rule were treated far worse in later centuries.
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Why did they have to pay a tax and tell us what happened to them if they didn't.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I do acknowledge facts, I acknowledge that blanket statements and outright hostility aren't going to make things better.
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I agree. Speaking the truth isn't ''hostility''. God loves the truth. Muslims, not so much. Lying is a tenet of Islam.
 
Johnny Ace said:
I agree. Speaking the truth isn't ''hostility''. God loves the truth. Muslims, not so much. Lying is a tenet of Islam.
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The problem with statements like that, is that it hurts us from making inroads to Muslims that are friendly to us, like the Kurds.
Where we can slowly, encourage them to adopt more Western Values.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
The problem with statements like that, is that it hurts us from making inroads to Muslims that are friendly to us, like the Kurds.
Where we can slowly, encourage them to adopt more Western Values.
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The truth is never hurtful. Misleading and lying are hurtful.
 
Johnny Ace said:
Why did they have to pay a tax and tell us what happened to them if they didn't.
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They had to pay a tax because it was law of the empire and it was also a great way to convert people and it worked quite well actually, thousands upon thousands converted to Islam because of it. If you did not pay the tax you would be killed which was standard fare for pretty much any part of the world at that point. If you want an example of pure barbarism in those times, look at your example of the Crusades which killed far more Christians and Jews than it did Muslims through numerous mass slaughters and genocides.
 
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