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What is the War in Ukraine about?

What is the War in Ukraine about?


  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
That PPT stuff is something else. One should exercise extreme care when playing the stock market as a result. The PPT adds confusion to an already difficult market. It's difficult to know what move to make if all of a sudden the PPT steps in and reverses the results of the market. Unless you have some inside information.

I don't believe the PPT is limited to the stock market. Commodities, Forex, etc. Any plunge and the operators will be in the Market for economic advantage. Perhaps that why USTreasury, Goldman, JPMorgan and the Fed seem to have revolving door employee relationships. Keep the players inside the loop.
 
Absolute nonsense, the Crimea has been ethnically cleansed of at least 35,000 ethnic Ukrainians since the illegal Russian invasion, occupation, and annexation of that sovereign Ukrainian territory, you strike me as someone who would have asserted "no bloodshed in Austria and Czechoslovakia" in 1938 as justification for imperialistic expansionism through offensive military force.


35,000 bodies, so it should be real easy for you to provide a photo or ten to prove that. Otherwise your comic book suscription
has caused minor neurological disfunction and maybe adding sodium to your diet will improve synaptic performance, but I doubt it.
 
35,000 bodies, so it should be real easy for you to provide a photo or ten to prove that. Otherwise your comic book suscription
has caused minor neurological disfunction and maybe adding sodium to your diet will improve synaptic performance, but I doubt it.

I didn't say genocide I said ethnic cleansing.

i]

“We are talking of a reign of fear, if not of terror” in the pockets of territory around Donetsk and Luhansk controlled by armed separatists and now experiencing a state of total lawlessness, Mr. Magazzeni said, citing cases of people shot at checkpoints for no reason and members of armed groups who were summarily shot because they no longer wanted to fight.

“The escalation in criminal activity resulting in human rights abuses is no longer limited to targeting journalists, elected representatives, local politicians, civil servants and civil society activists,” the report stated. “Abductions, detentions, acts of ill-treatment and torture, and killings by armed groups are now affecting the broader population of the two eastern regions.”

The United Nations refugee agency has reported that more than 34,000 Ukrainians have been displaced. Most were from Crimea, where people who speak Ukrainian or do not want to change their nationality to Russian face discrimination and intimidation, Mr. Magazzeni said.

“They are mostly concerned about security: people report staying in cellars to keep away from the fighting, facing harassment at checkpoints and fearing the increasingly common abductions, threats and extortion,” the monitors reported.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/w...tails-casualties-in-eastern-ukraine.html?_r=0
 
I don't believe the PPT is limited to the stock market. Commodities, Forex, etc. Any plunge and the operators will be in the Market for economic advantage. Perhaps that why USTreasury, Goldman, JPMorgan and the Fed seem to have revolving door employee relationships. Keep the players inside the loop.

That's a great point about the US Treasury Secretary and Goldman Sachs and Citigroup. Hank Paulson and Robert Rubin were from Goldman Sachs.

I would not be surprised if a guy like Warren Buffet gets a lot of inside info from such people.
 
Usually when Victoria Nuland's name is mentioned, the neocons typically brush her off as some low level diplomat. Here's an interesting take on Nuland:

Victoria Nuland’s family ties: The Permanent Government in action | The Occidental Observer - White Identity, Interests, and Culture

Intertwined Jewish power families are an important aspect of Jewish history, cementing business relationships by creating networks of close relatives who married only among themselves—e.g., the Court Jews of 17th- and 18th-century Europe (see here, pp 150-152). We see echoes of that in the contemporary world, as among the neocons.

As with the other Jewish intellectual movements I have studied, neoconservatives have a history of mutual admiration, close, mutually supportive personal, professional, and familial relationships, and focused cooperation in pursuit of common goals. For example, Norman Podhoretz, the former editor of Commentary, is the father of John Podhoretz, a neoconservative editor and columnist. Norman Podhoretz is also the father-in-law of Elliott Abrams, the former head of the Ethics and Public Policy Center (a neoconservative think tank) and the director of Near Eastern affairs at the National Security Council. Norman’s wife, Midge Decter, recently published a hagiographic biography of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, whose number-two and number-three deputies at the Pentagon, respectively, are Wolfowitz and Feith. Perle is a fellow at the AEI. He originally helped Wolfowitz obtain a job with the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency in 1973. In 1982, Perle, as Deputy Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy, hired Feith for a position as his Special Counsel, and then as Deputy Assistant Secretary for Negotiations Policy. In 2001, Deputy Secretary of Defense Wolfowitz helped Feith obtain an appointment as Undersecretary for Policy. Feith then appointed Perle as chairman of the Defense Policy Board. This is only the tip of a very large iceberg. “Neoconservatism as a Jewish movement” (p. 32)

Ethnic networking and ties cemented by marriage are on display in the flap over Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland’s phone conversation with Geoffrey Pyatt, U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine. As VDARE’s Steve Sailer puts it, Nuland is a member of a talented, energetic [Jewish] family that is part of the Permanent Government of the United States. It doesn’t really matter who wins the Presidential election: some Kagan-Nuland will be doing something somewhere in your name and on your dime.
The Kagan connection is via her husband, Robert Kagan. As noted by Your Lying Eyes, “Robert and brother Fred seem to have strategically implanted themselves in key policy-making positions within the Democratic and Republican party apparatus. Robert is embedded at Brookings, while Fred is ensconsed at AEI.”

So we have another Jewish neocon family tree, beginning with Donald Kagan, a Yale historian whose history of the Peloponnesia War has been used by neocons as a rationale for invasions of countries Israel doesn’t like (see Sailer). Donald Kagan was also a signatory to a 2002 letter to George W. Bush put out by Bill Kristol’s Project for the New American Century (PNAC) equating threats to Israel (Iran, Syria, Iraq) with threats to the U.S.
The next generation, Fred Kagan (American Enterprise Institute) and Robert Kagan (Brookings) are neocon stalwarts as well. (E.g., Donald, Robert and Frederick are all signatories to the neocon manifesto, Rebuilding America’s Defenses (2000), put out by PNAC.) They and their wives, are all graduates of elite universities and well entrenched in the neocon thinktank/government infrastructure. Fred’s wife Kimberly (nee Kessler) is the head of the Institute for the Study of War and holds typical neocon positions.
And although U.S. policy toward Ukraine likely stems from other issues besides the neocon hostility toward Russia (the latter due to issues such as Putin’s crackdown on the oligarchs and Russia’s support of Israel’s enemies, Iran and Syria), there be little doubt that Nuland’s energetic support of the pro-EU opposition to the Yanukovych government dovetails with the attitudes of her neocon network. Our Permanent Government at work.
 
Did you manage to read the article concerning how the media and the CIA are working together? That the main writer or "Security Expert" for the Los Angeles Times and who now is the Associated Press "Intelligence Expert" was/is a CIA agent? (Not much difference between U.S. Main Scream Media and RT or Russia Today.)

The CIA’s Mop-Up Man: L.A. Times Reporter Cleared Stories With Agency Before Publication
By Ken Silverstein
September 04, 2014
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/...imes-reporter-cleared-stories-cia-publication

I have always claimed that NATO member states are planning to leave the United Nations as China begins to exercise its "clout" within world events. The U.S. is slowly losing or vacating its total control of UN Securtiy Council. It will begin defunding the United Nations in the very near future in order to weaken the U.N. as an International Tool, which was once owned and operated by the Council Of Foreign Relations and the Rockefeller Team. In order to walk away, the U.S. will claim the UN to be "Ineffective".

Before this happens, Western Europe must be weaned off of Russian energy products.

The new war in Iraq and the fact that the Kurds were allowed to take over control of additional territory and which contains the largest oil reserves known to mankind, will have a pipeline run through Turkey and then to Europe. Turkey will then be given membership in the EU.

What I find quite amazing is that the West has been bombing Iraq for 25 years!!!

Then today they would stand up and claim the are at a loss to understand the absolute "PTSD Induced" anger all across Iraq.

There were American soldiers returning from Iraq suffering from PTSD and many of them flipped out after returning home and killed their whole damn family. The American soldiers at least got some help and counselling and maybe Dolly Parton showed up to sing a few tunes for them. But not the Iraqi civilians. There are countless Iraqi Refugees wandering aimlessly across the Middle East bent on PTSD revenge.

The Americans are all upset about cutting somebody's head off, but forget Abu Gharib and the crucifixion photos, the soldiers peeing on dead Afghan civilians, and I could go on and on. The Americans were strapping dead Iraqi Soldiers to the hood of their jeeps and trucking around Iraq.

Calm

Great post Calm.
 
Essentially, what has likely happened is that a Russia, fully integrated into the European system as an independent state with strong sovereignty, was perceived by those with power in the United States as too big of a threat in the long run. A European/Russian partnership in an era where the demise of the dollar is inevitable, was simply something that the US could not tolerate as such a partnership would eventually significantly eclipse the US in the future.

In the final analysis, that may be what the war is about.
 
Essentially, what has likely happened is that a Russia, fully integrated into the European system as an independent state with strong sovereignty, was perceived by those with power in the United States as too big of a threat in the long run. A European/Russian partnership in an era where the demise of the dollar is inevitable, was simply something that the US could not tolerate as such a partnership would eventually significantly eclipse the US in the future.

In the final analysis, that may be what the war is about.

IOW US intrigue is behind it?
 
Indeed! Only patronising Americans.

I have said before, I really don't have a problem with the US pursuing it's interests. It's the way we go about doing it that bothers me. For instance in Ukraine, if Russia presented a better offer to Yanukovych, if Ukraine is so important, we should have made him a better offer. But this whole business of the Assistant Secretary of State fomenting protest against a democratically elected government and then pushing the situation to the point of the overthrow of the government, was way too heavy handed in a country of such strategic importance to Russia. Yeah, Ukraine is of strategic interest to the US, but it is not a vital interest. It was surely not worth destroying the improved relations with Russia that he US cultivated during the Gorbachev era.

That said, the US has come out of this with the upper hand, although some, for political purposes would like to paint Obama as weak in comparison to Putin because of this. The reality of the situation is that Ukraine, at least the western part, has been torn from Russia, likely for good. But this has come at the expense of relations with Russia, and could, if not managed properly, result in a very nasty war that will destroy modern human civilization. I really don't think it was worth that.
 
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I have said before, I really don't have a problem with the US pursuing it's interests. It's the way we go about doing it that bothers me. For instance in Ukraine, if Russia presented a better offer to Yanukovych, if Ukraine is so important, we should have made him a better offer. But this whole business of the Assistant Secretary of State fomenting protest against a democratically elected government and then pushing to situation to the point of the overthrow of the government, was way to heavy handed in a country of such strategic importance to Russia. Yeah, Ukraine is of strategic interest to the US, but it is not a vital interest. It was surely not worth destroying the improved relations with Russia that he US cultivated during the Gorbachev era.

That said, the US has come out of this with the upper hand, although some, for political purposes would like to paint Obama as weak in comparison to Putin because of this. The reality of the situation is that Ukraine, at least the western part, has been torn from Russia, likely for good. But this has come at the expense of relations with Russia, and could, if not managed properly, result in a very nasty war that will destroy modern human civilization. I really don't think it was worth that.

We agree!
 
We agree!

I can't prove it, but I think part of that over aggressiveness was the result of the desire by Obama to finally get a win in after having been outmaneuvered by Putin time and time again. That's just speculation.
 
I can't prove it, but I think part of that over aggressiveness was the result of the desire by Obama to finally get a win in after having been outmaneuvered by Putin time and time again. That's just speculation.

Yeah, that's essentially treason, if you get your country involved in hostilities that get Americans killed for some political points, and I would reject that that's it, and appreciate that you framed it as speculation. What's clear however is that US/WESTERN corporations had big plans for Ukraine (Cargill is but one that comes to mind, investing 200,000,000 USD around the time Victoria Nuland was up to her tricks) and big business has very big lobbies and influence over foreign (well, domestic too) policy.
 
Yeah, that's essentially treason, if you get your country involved in hostilities that get Americans killed for some political points, and I would reject that that's it, and appreciate that you framed it as speculation. What's clear however is that US/WESTERN corporations had big plans for Ukraine (Cargill is but one that comes to mind, investing 200,000,000 USD around the time Victoria Nuland was up to her tricks) and big business has very big lobbies and influence over foreign (well, domestic too) policy.

Do you have a link to support your assertion about Cargill?
 
Do you have a link to support your assertion about Cargill?

As the US and EU apply sanctions on Russia over its annexation’ of Crimea, JP Sottile reveals the corporate annexation of Ukraine. For Cargill, Chevron, Monsanto, there’s a gold mine of profits to be made from agri-business and energy exploitation.

The potential here for agriculture / agribusiness is amazing … production here could double … Ukraine’s agriculture could be a real gold mine.

On 12th January 2014, a reported 50,000 “pro-Western” Ukrainians descended upon Kiev’s Independence Square to protest against the government of President Viktor Yanukovych.

Stoked in part by an attack on opposition leader Yuriy Lutsenko, the protest marked the beginning of the end of Yanukovych’s four year-long government.

That same day, the Financial Times reported a major deal for US agribusiness titan Cargill.

Business confidence never faltered.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukrain...n-monsanto-its-a-gold-mine-of-profits/5375170
 
As the US and EU apply sanctions on Russia over its annexation’ of Crimea, JP Sottile reveals the corporate annexation of Ukraine. For Cargill, Chevron, Monsanto, there’s a gold mine of profits to be made from agri-business and energy exploitation.

The potential here for agriculture / agribusiness is amazing … production here could double … Ukraine’s agriculture could be a real gold mine.

On 12th January 2014, a reported 50,000 “pro-Western” Ukrainians descended upon Kiev’s Independence Square to protest against the government of President Viktor Yanukovych.

Stoked in part by an attack on opposition leader Yuriy Lutsenko, the protest marked the beginning of the end of Yanukovych’s four year-long government.

That same day, the Financial Times reported a major deal for US agribusiness titan Cargill.

Business confidence never faltered.


Ukraine: The Corporate Annexation. “For Cargill, Chevron, Monsanto, It’s a Gold Mine of Profits” | Global Research

That is very interesting. I wonder at what point in US history did US foreign policy become so centered on the interests of US businesses.
 
Essentially, what has likely happened is that a Russia, fully integrated into the European system as an independent state with strong sovereignty, was perceived by those with power in the United States as too big of a threat in the long run. A European/Russian partnership in an era where the demise of the dollar is inevitable, was simply something that the US could not tolerate as such a partnership would eventually significantly eclipse the US in the future.

In the final analysis, that may be what the war is about.

Which must be why Europe - both east and west - is siding so strongly with Russia on this issue!!:lamo:lamo

One of the funniest posts I've ever read on this forum, and that's saying something!
 
Which must be why Europe - both east and west - is siding so strongly with Russia on this issue!!:lamo:lamo

One of the funniest posts I've ever read on this forum, and that's saying something!

Actually, if you know anything about it, Europe was not so keen on confronting Russia in this way. What do you think Victoria Nuland's "F the EU" remark was all about?

You need to think.
 
That is very interesting. I wonder at what point in US history did US foreign policy become so centered on the interests of US businesses.

Oh gawd, since US business started going abroad for bananas, pineapple, oil, and any other natural resources that could be exploited. When you hear Washington mention "US INTERESTS" it's almost never your interests or mine.
 
Oh gawd, since US business started going abroad for bananas, pineapple, oil, and any other natural resources that could be exploited. When you hear Washington mention "US INTERESTS" it's almost never your interests or mine.

I agree that US citizens interests are not necessarily served by supporting business interests in this way. It would be interesting to trace out the history of it tho.
 
I agree that US citizens interests are not necessarily served by supporting business interests in this way. It would be interesting to trace out the history of it tho.

This represents but a fraction of the examples that could be provided.

The 1954 Guatemalan coup d’état (18–27 June 1954) was a covert operation carried out by the United States Central Intelligence Agency that deposed President Jacobo Árbenz and installed a military regime in his place. The coup was codenamed "Operation PBSUCCESS."

Guatemala had been ruled since 1930 by the dictator General Jorge Ubico, supported by the United States government. His regime was one of the most brutally repressive military juntas in the history of Central America. In return for U.S. support he gave hundreds of thousands of hectares of highly fertile land to the American United Fruit Company (UFCO), as well as allowing the U.S. military to establish bases in Guatemala.[1][2][3][4][5] In 1944, Ubico's repressive policies resulted in a large popular revolt against him, led by students, intellectuals, and a progressive faction of the military. In what was later called the "October Revolution", Ubico was overthrown, resulting in Guatemala's first democratic election.[6]
Prior to the Russian Revolution, support for dictators was often based on furthering American economic and political priorities, such as opening foreign markets to American manufacturers.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d'état

The United States has been involved in and assisted in the overthrow of foreign governments (more recently termed "regime change") without the overt use of U.S. military force. Often, such operations are tasked to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

Regime change has been attempted through direct involvement of U.S. operatives, the funding and training of insurgency groups within these countries, anti-regime propaganda campaigns, coups d'état, and other activities usually conducted as operations by the CIA. The United States has also accomplished regime change by direct military action, such as following the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 and the U.S.-led military invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Some argue that non-transparent United States government agencies working in secret sometimes mislead or do not fully implement the decisions of elected civilian leaders and that this has been an important component of many such operations,[1] see plausible deniability. Some contend that the U.S. has supported more coups against democracies that it perceived as communist, becoming communist, or pro-communist.[1]

The U.S. has also covertly supported opposition groups in various countries without necessarily attempting to overthrow the government. For example, the CIA funded anti-communist political parties in countries such as Italy and Chile; it also armed Kurdish rebels fighting the Ba'athist government of Iraq in the Second Kurdish-Iraqi War prior to the Algiers Agreement.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions
 
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It is the Eastern Ukraine separatists that coined the name Novorussiya and have been using it since the inception of hostilities. No bloodshed in Crimea and a 95% approval by Crimeans for the annexation. Poroshenko got 28% of the Ukraine electorate to become President. Poroshenko and company attacked their own citizens in Eastern Ukraine and these are the citizens that voted for Yanukovych. A good chance to eliminate your political opposition, don't you think? Russia did not invade Ukraine. Russia had over 20,000 troops in Crimea as part of previous agreements and they stayed and apparently prevented another major bloodshed event orchestrated by Kiev. What you are seeing the the manifestation of the New World Order (corporate control) power structure and trying to control the energy flow to EU for geo-political leverage. You have regurgitated the MSM "talking points" by the presstitutes in the USA. Ask yourself why Poroshenko tried to kill brother Ukrainians? Ask yourself why no diplomacy? Ask yourself if it could be about the huge shale gas deposits in Eastern Ukraine? Tell me why a smart guy like Putin didn't just take Ukraine, if he wanted it? Russia and Putin are the ones being screwed and libelled by the USA and its' diplomatic corps and its' CIA asset press.

For one thing, at least you are calling it what it is, unlike Monte. And two, sort of hard to have a fair vote when you have Russian troops patrolling the streets don't you think? Or maybe you still think 100% of Iraqis really wanted Saddam in power...
 
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