Can the US be safe from terrorist incursion with our current open border?

You can have an open border and be safe from terrorists as long as you dont militarily intervene in other countries so yes, its possible.

TeleKat said:

If a terrorist wants to get in here it's not going to matter whether or not we have a fence up.

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Yes I agree.

The way terrorists engage is through influencing citizens who are already there in USA. If you want to prevent this influence you need to teach citizens some critical thinking skills so as they could stop such a self-defeating and society-defeating influence.

PoS said:

You can have an open border and be safe from terrorists as long as you dont militarily intervene in other countries so yes, its possible.

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So you think that by appeasing terrorists who decapitate children they will somehow leave us alone?

Is it possible? Sure it is. Is it the most likely way for terrorists to infiltrate? No, not really - the northern border is when we discuss border security only, based on historical events, but the southern border posses problems for terrorists that the northern border does not. Is cross border infiltration on foot the most likely way it would occur? No, again, not really - historically terrorists have infiltrated using Education Visas or other visas and then radicalize locals to do the work in cells that they create. Most recently, terrorists have turned to radicalization of US citizens and legal US residents via the internet and other technology, as was done with the Boston Bombers and other numerous examples. The newest threat emerging is what Europe, and to a lesser degree the US, is currently facing with radicalized citizens and legal residents using their passports to travel to the ME, get trained and equipped, and then potentially use that same passport to come back home to radicalize, recruit and train other citizens and legal residents to enact terrorist attacks.

Closing our open border is a must. But, not for the reason in the OP. Also, to use potential terrorist infiltration as a reason to close and secure our border (and when I say border in this entire post, I mean all of our borders around the world that can be used as a port of entry as well as the land borders with Canada and Mexico) only moves the discussion from the real and present dangers to the realm of the CT which allows the open border supporters and apologists to muddy the waters and reduce the true need for a closed and secure border. As seen in this thread already.

Let's close the border, enforce our immigration laws, maintain an organized and humane immigration system that keeps the US the most diversified and technology advancing country we can be, and put the terrorist argument where it belongs, which is not at the border. A closed and secure border is not the same as keeping people out - it allows people that follow our laws and our procedures to come and go as they please, but restricts to just those that do follow our laws and procedures.

JMHO

even with virtually closed borders it would not be safe. More homegrown terrorists are a threat to security IMO or those who come in on visa's from Europe/Asia.

The open borders with Mexico are not a terrorist threat but a real and very dangerous a drugs cartel and criminal violence threat.

Can the US be safe from terrorist incursion...

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You should have stopped the question there. The answer is no. Absolute security is impossible. Fearing the border with Mexico as a source of terrorists is silly though. They will just fly in.

We can never be safe from terrorist attacks regardless of what we do at the border. Someone bent on destruction will find a way.

Paschendale said:

Crossing over from Mexico is likely very low on the list of methods that Islamic terrorists would use to enter this country. Of course, the majority of terrorist actions in this country are committed by American citizens, making the idea of linking immigration from Mexico and South America to terrorism even more pointless. As in the graphic, drugs certainly come in that way, but we like drugs in this country. Terrorists don't come in that way. Amusingly, they're often not too fond of the drugs.

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Yea I'm pretty sure that there has already been evidence that many "other than Mexican" people have been crossing, including those from Islamic countries.

Yes, because all the guns in Texas will stop the terrorists.

johndylan1 said:

Yea I'm pretty sure that there has already been evidence that many "other than Mexican" people have been crossing, including those from Islamic countries.

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Please share that evidence.

Lakeside said:

How are you so sure that does not "actually happen"?

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Because there's no evidence of it happening.

US Conservative said:

I disagree.

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And why do you disagree? Because you don't like our immigration policies? Or do you actually have some evidence that this problem exists? If you do, please share it. Otherwise, this is an unfounded fear and no cause to try to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Terrorism is a technique, which is utilized by citizens and legal residents far more frequently than by foreigners.

Boston Marathon bombing, Oklahoma City bombing, the Weathermen, the SLA, Earth First!, Joseph Stack flying a plane into an IRS building, 2012 Sikh Temple shooting, 2009 Fort Hood shooting, 2002 Beltway Sniper attacks, on and on and on....

Not to mention cyber attacks, which can be initiated by pretty much anyone anywhere in the world with an Internet connection.

Most importantly of all, the odds of anyone in the US being killed by terrorism is extremely small. 9/11, as horrific as it was, was responsible for 0.08% of all deaths in the US in 2001. As one article put it, You're More Likely to Die from Brain-Eating Parasites, Alcoholism, Obesity, Medical Errors, Risky Sexual Behavior or Just About Anything OTHER THAN Terrorism.


Ultimately, terrorism is a method whose true effectiveness is not reflected in its death counts, but in the fear it sows, and the over-reactions it provokes. We also pay more attention to big, splashy, out-of-our-control events like a bombing than to, say, smoking tobacco -- which now kills almost half a million people a year.

So, yes. We can certainly still be safe, even if we don't put the US inside a giant bubble to seal out The Others. That is, if we stop smoking cigarettes.

Visbek said:

Terrorism is a technique, which is utilized by citizens and legal residents far more frequently than by foreigners.

Boston Marathon bombing, Oklahoma City bombing, the Weathermen, the SLA, Earth First!, Joseph Stack flying a plane into an IRS building, 2012 Sikh Temple shooting, 2009 Fort Hood shooting, 2002 Beltway Sniper attacks, on and on and on....

Not to mention cyber attacks, which can be initiated by pretty much anyone anywhere in the world with an Internet connection.

Most importantly of all, the odds of anyone in the US being killed by terrorism is extremely small. 9/11, as horrific as it was, was responsible for 0.08% of all deaths in the US in 2001. As one article put it, You're More Likely to Die from Brain-Eating Parasites, Alcoholism, Obesity, Medical Errors, Risky Sexual Behavior or Just About Anything OTHER THAN Terrorism.


Ultimately, terrorism is a method whose true effectiveness is not reflected in its death counts, but in the fear it sows, and the over-reactions it provokes. We also pay more attention to big, splashy, out-of-our-control events like a bombing than to, say, smoking tobacco -- which now kills almost half a million people a year.

So, yes. We can certainly still be safe, even if we don't put the US inside a giant bubble to seal out The Others. That is, if we stop smoking cigarettes.

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Well said.

America will never be safe from terrorism. It is impossible to be perfectly safe. Just remember Timothy McVeigh.

So grow a spine America, take sensible precautions without being paranoid and move on.

There are no guarantees in life...so stop running to mommy everytime the media says 'ISIS'.

Paschendale said:

No, you shouldn't lock your doors if nobody has ever broken into any home or stolen any car. You guard against things that actually happen. Terrorists crossing into this country from Mexico isn't something that actually happens.

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so is that a guarantee on your part?

or just hopefulness?

PoS said:

You can have an open border and be safe from terrorists as long as you dont militarily intervene in other countries so yes, its possible.

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so evil doesnt exist.....and if we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone...right?

i wonder how the jews would respond to that line of thought?

Visbek said:

Terrorism is a technique, which is utilized by citizens and legal residents far more frequently than by foreigners.

Boston Marathon bombing, Oklahoma City bombing, the Weathermen, the SLA, Earth First!, Joseph Stack flying a plane into an IRS building, 2012 Sikh Temple shooting, 2009 Fort Hood shooting, 2002 Beltway Sniper attacks, on and on and on....

Not to mention cyber attacks, which can be initiated by pretty much anyone anywhere in the world with an Internet connection.

Most importantly of all, the odds of anyone in the US being killed by terrorism is extremely small. 9/11, as horrific as it was, was responsible for 0.08% of all deaths in the US in 2001. As one article put it, You're More Likely to Die from Brain-Eating Parasites, Alcoholism, Obesity, Medical Errors, Risky Sexual Behavior or Just About Anything OTHER THAN Terrorism.


Ultimately, terrorism is a method whose true effectiveness is not reflected in its death counts, but in the fear it sows, and the over-reactions it provokes. We also pay more attention to big, splashy, out-of-our-control events like a bombing than to, say, smoking tobacco -- which now kills almost half a million people a year.

So, yes. We can certainly still be safe, even if we don't put the US inside a giant bubble to seal out The Others. That is, if we stop smoking cigarettes.

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When you live in a country of 310 million small percentages are not all that comforting. Even just a 1% rate means thousands.

US Conservative said:

So you think that by appeasing terrorists who decapitate children they will somehow leave us alone?

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For the second time. Minding your own business is not appeasement. The Swiss mind their own business, do you think they are appeasers? :roll:

TeleKat said:

If a terrorist wants to get in here it's not going to matter whether or not we have a fence up.

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Then why bother to try to secure the borders of the U.S. at all?

gdgyva said:

so is that a guarantee on your part?

or just hopefulness?

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It's a conclusion based on the available information, as opposed to one based on just making stuff up. Which kind of conclusion do you think is better?

Peter King said:

even with virtually closed borders it would not be safe. More homegrown terrorists are a threat to security IMO or those who come in on visa's from Europe/Asia.

The open borders with Mexico are not a terrorist threat but a real and very dangerous a drugs cartel and criminal violence threat.

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I'll agree with you but will say the drug cartel and criminal violence are a terrorist threat. When I saw the breaking news on cnn about the latest beheading, we looked up beheading and the first three videos were drug cartel beheadings. They are famous for that, but for some reason don't get much American press.

APACHERAT said:

MS-13 aka Mara Salvatruchas are all illegal aliens who illegally crossed our southern border except for those MS-13 gang members who Obama has allowed to cross our border just in the past few month by giving them a court date. I doubt any will show up, MS-13 says "Obama is the man."

Where ever MS-13 is found in America's neighborhoods, people live in terror.

Mara Salvatruchas (MS-13) | Terrorist Groups | TRAC

>"WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of the Treasury today designated the Latin American gang Mara Salvatrucha, known as MS-13, pursuant to Executive Order (E.O.) 13581, which targets significant transnational criminal organizations (TCOs) and their supporters. MS-13 is being targeted for its involvement in serious transnational criminal activities, including drug trafficking, kidnapping, human smuggling, sex trafficking, murder, assassinations, racketeering, blackmail, extortion, and immigration offenses..."<
Treasury Sanctions Latin American Criminal Organization

FBI — MS-13 Threat Assessment

From Prison to Gangs to the World's Most Notorious Terrorist Group
>" The MS-13 (Mara Salvatrucha) gang's33 connection to al Qaeda was facilitated after 9/11 when the terrorist group realized the gang could help smuggle operatives and weapons into the U.S. over the Mexican border. According to Steven McCraw, the former assistant director of the FBI's Office of Intelligence and current director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, a matricula consular 34 provides an opportunity for terrorists to move freely within the U.S. without triggering name-based watch lists..."<
From Prison to Gangs to the World's Most Notorious Terrorist Group | Organized Retail Crime Goes Global | FT Press





MS-13 gang labeled transnational criminal group
MS-13 gang labeled transnational criminal group, a first for US street gang - CSMonitor.com

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Apache, you make a good point about the terrorism threat of gangs like MS until you say MS claims Obama is the man. Now I know you will put up your stock picture of a dark skinned group of guys with a lot of scary tattoos that say that Obama is the man but there is no concrete proof that Obama backs MS. If you can't provide actual proof, then you should really stopped that claim.

matchlight said:

Then why bother to try to secure the borders of the U.S. at all?

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You're catching on. :applaud

americanwoman said:

Apache, you make a good point about the terrorism threat of gangs like MS until you say MS claims Obama is the man. Now I know you will put up your stock picture of a dark skinned group of guys with a lot of scary tattoos that say that Obama is the man but there is no concrete proof that Obama backs MS. If you can't provide actual proof, then you should really stopped that claim.

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He'll claim Obama's policy supports MS and his motives are unknowable (irrelevant or according to his narrative).

US Conservative said:

A recent leaked Border Patrol document Darby CBP Leak Numbers Globe shows that tens of thousands of foreigners are caught sneaking into the US each year. For every one caught, certainly more get through-and NOT just from latin America. At the same time, Obama encourages a massive influx of illegals with very little or no documentation. On top of this we have unsavory characters from Mexico's drug cartels, and human smugglers coming through because they know they CAN.

And yet our border remains porous-with some claiming a secure border is racist, intolerant, a waste of time :roll:, etc. Drugs, and people can get through-and terrorists will exploit that as much as human smugglers and drug traffickers, I believe. We know terrorists HAVE gotten through-and its one reason why Homeland Security is on edge right now, expecting more attacks.

Can the US be safe from terrorist incursion with our current open border?

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Terrorism is a probability, given enough time you'll see an attack; it'll never be zero. Often times in the pursuit of zero, we end up in a worse situation. Are we "safe" from terrorist incursion? No, and even with totally closed boarders the answer is still no.

Paschendale said:

It's a conclusion based on the available information, as opposed to one based on just making stuff up. Which kind of conclusion do you think is better?

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well....it probably depends on where you get your information

i am a corp controller....i deal in contingencies....and liabilities

and my job is to lessen all contingent liabilities when appropriate

we know people around the world HATE us.....

and yet, we basically have an open border

not saying we can keep everyone out.....

but maybe we should be a bit more careful.....dontcha think?