Ferguson

DVSentinel said:

Stupidity.

While marching and rioting for justice, the mob has now made sure justice cannot be served. All these people who know almost nothing about what happened are screaming, yelling, looting, burning and now decrying that the investigation is biased. How exactly can anyone pursue justice through due process of the law when only one outcome is acceptable to the mob?

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By noting that the mob does not rule.

TobyOne said:

Marijuana in his system.

County investigation: Michael Brown was shot from the front, had marijuana in his system - The Washington Post

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Well that clears Brown entirely. We all know that pot makes you mellow, not aggressive.


/s

Just like Trayvon

Lutherf said:

Well that clears Brown entirely. We all know that pot makes you mellow, not aggressive.


/s

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Superfly said:

How was the shooting clearly unjustified?

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The shots that led to death were unjustified.

First shot:
The first possible shot occurred while the officer was in the car.
From the evidence I have heard, this shot was very likely to be justified.
If the suspect was in the officers window and aggressive, I do believe the officer had the right to shoot.

2nd group of shots:
Out of the 2nd group of shots, one hit the suspect in the back.
The legality of these shots varies from state to state. In many cases, it is legal to shoot if the suspect is likely to pose a threat to others and the officer doubts his ability to otherwise apprehend the suspect.
Lets just give our man in blue the benefit of the doubt here. Lets call this a clean back shoot.

3rd group of shots:
Suspect is shot, he turns and raises his hands in a stance of surrender while at the same time announcing that he does not have a gun.
These final shots that took the life of the suspect were nothing short of homicide. What level of homicide is unclear.
We should again give our man in blue the benefit of the doubt and assume that he made a mistake due to being pumped up on adrenaline from being assaulted and from the pursuit and gunfire.
And assume that the killing as not racially motivated or born out of malice or revenge.

But even so, no matter how you slice it, those final shots were unjustified and the law was broken when a life was taken.

The officer had no knowledge of the incident at the store and therefore that incident is completely irrelevant.
But just for the point... Let us imagine not only that the cop knew of the crime, but let us imagine that the suspect had just murdered 75 small children with a butcher knife.

If Brown had just murdered 75 small children with a butcher knife, and then raised his hands and surrendered to an officer that had already wounded him...
And then that officer gunned him down in front of multiple witnesses...
That officer would still be guilty of some degree of homicide or unlawful killing.

We are not barbarians.
Even 200 years ago it was unlawful to gun down a surrendering suspect.

The shooting was unjustified because the final killing shots were unlawful.

TobyOne said:

How about a 21 yo guy 5 times? What measure are you using for your opinion?

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The shooting someone 6 times is the problem, not the age.

TobyOne said:

Just like Trayvon

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What's just like Trayvon is that if an unarmed black kid gets shot by anybody other than an armed black kid it's a national news event. Apparently the dozens of unarmed black kids shot by other black kids is no big deal.

The other thing that's just like Trayvon is that outrage against the cops, accusing them of coverups and murder, requires no evidence of systemic abuse. The possibility that, even if it was a bad shooting, the event could be a "one off" doesn't fit the storyline.

Lakryte said:

The shooting someone 6 times is the problem, not the age.

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If the suspect continues to charge, the officer will continue to shoot.

Most of the shots were not life threatening and with adrenalin pumping in the suspect, it is viable that he kept coming.

grip said:

my PC is down .

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I would say your P.C. is functioning quite well. Oh, wait a minute. You meant Personal Computer.

Never mind

Somehow missing in this piece is the fact that here you had an absolute mountain of a man-thug who thought nothing of menacing and intimidating a tiny little white guy in order to rob him.

It looks like his skin color really isn't all that much a negative when it comes with such license to engage in this sort of behavior.

Lakryte said:

So the police officer shoots him in the head, he dies, and then the officer shoots him 5 more times? I don't think so--and if that were the case, that would be just as unacceptable.

But the NYT article tells a different story:

"One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said."

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He was shot twice in the head, who says they were both fatal? The top of head shot was considered deadly, but the other one could've been in a different order.

Mason66 said:

According to the drawing from Baden, there are no exit wounds at all.

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Yes there are.

grip said:

He was shot twice in the head, who says they were both fatal? The top of head shot was considered deadly, but the other one could've been in a different order.





Yes there are.

View attachment 67171579

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Yes I saw that. I see no exit wounds on the back of his body at all.

Please point them out. Thanks

Gardener said:

I would say your P.C. is functioning quite well. Oh, wait a minute. You meant Personal Computer.

Never mind

Somehow missing in this piece is the fact that here you had an absolute mountain of a man-thug who thought nothing of menacing and intimidating a tiny little white guy in order to rob him.

It looks like his skin color really isn't all that much a negative when it comes with such license to engage in this sort of behavior.

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I never said the shoot wasn't justified, only questionable. I guess you have all the facts beyond a doubt?

Wiggen said:

His name is not 'Lew Alcindor'. It's Kareem Abdul Jabbar. You belittle yourself in your attempt to belittle him.

PS It's not Cassius Clay, either. Just in case you were wondering. It's Muhammad Ali.

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Lew is a non entity in Missouri. He was before the incident. He will be after the incident. He will have lots of company.

grip said:

. I guess you have all the facts beyond a doubt?

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I do not have all the facts, but I certainly listed one conspicuously absent from the one-sided piece you selected to represent your views.

Mason66 said:

Yes I saw that. I see no exit wounds on the back of his body at all.

Please point them out. Thanks

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Read the top of the diagram where it says, "reentry and exit perforations", then count the holes up front, there are 8. The exits came out the front, because his head was bent forward.

Gardener said:

I do not have all the facts, but I certainly listed one conspicuously absent from the one-sided piece you selected to represent your views.

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I simply commented on an op-ed piece that I thought was well written and pointed to a bigger picture, instead of a singular event as causing the protests and riots. If you have a better narrative feel free to elaborate.

crazy people and other


we dont know whether or not the shooting was justified yet....how could we?

the investigation is nowhere near done

people jumping to conclusions on both sides of the aisle.....

lots of hypotheses, and wild ass guesses, and very few FACTS

what we do know is that another young black man is dead at the hand of the police

whether or not the officer made a good or bad shooting is a ways off

but we also have an epidemic in this country

an epidemic of young men who make really stupid decisions

why? well....from my point of view is is a lack of parenting, and a lack of men (good role models) to follow

bad educations....little or no job opportunities....and parents that either dont care, or are too busy trying to put food on the table to pay attention

another 6 kids (all black) killed in chicago over the weekend....total of 32 shot

it isnt just this one little community where this stuff is happening

it is in every inner city community.....

and i dont see a lot of action from the black leaders of america

grip said:

I simply commented on an op-ed piece that I thought was well written and pointed to a bigger picture, instead of a singular event as causing the protests and riots. If you have a better narrative feel free to elaborate.

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Yes, you gave extreme praise to an article with enormous gaps in the sort of information it presented by selecting only that which acted to confirm a pre-existing narritive.

gdgyva said:

crazy people and other


we dont know whether or not the shooting was justified yet....how could we?

the investigation is nowhere near done

people jumping to conclusions on both sides of the aisle.....

lots of hypotheses, and wild ass guesses, and very few FACTS

what we do know is that another young black man is dead at the hand of the police

whether or not the officer made a good or bad shooting is a ways off

but we also have an epidemic in this country

an epidemic of young men who make really stupid decisions

why? well....from my point of view is is a lack of parenting, and a lack of men (good role models) to follow

bad educations....little or no job opportunities....and parents that either dont care, or are too busy trying to put food on the table to pay attention

another 6 kids (all black) killed in chicago over the weekend....total of 32 shot

it isnt just this one little community where this stuff is happening

it is in every inner city community.....

and i dont see a lot of action from the black leaders of america

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Awwwww snap. You KNOW Rev Al and all the rest of them are booking flights to Chitown as we speak.

Well if he shot him six times when he was down you might have a point. We don't know that, and it seems unreasonable at this point.

Lakryte said:

The shooting someone 6 times is the problem, not the age.

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Lakryte said:

Shooting an 18-year old guy 6 times is not justified.

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If a 350 pound man is coming after you, repeatedly, charging towards you even after you've yelled "Freeze" or "Stop or I will shoot," then again - what is he supposed to do? Tell me what you expect that cop to do if this guy is charging him, refusing to stop.

RabidAlpaca said:

I think America is starting to have a real problem with vigilante rioters who want to take the law into their own hands. .

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Personally I think it's often just an excuse to go out and destroy stuff and 'have fun' and steal. I think it's an entertaining night out for a lot of them, getting a rush, and a lot of that self-righteous outrage is BS. Hey....it's free entertainment and exciting in their ordinary lives (like most of ours) and the chances of getting caught are slim. I think the same thing about a lot of the WTO rioting.

Mason66 said:

If the bullet entered his arm in the front of his arm, he couldn't have had his hands up.

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He was hit 6 times. The med examiner said he was falling when some shots hit, so he wasnt standing frozen while 6 shots hit him. (They dont even do that in the movies).

TobyOne said:

Here's the crazier thing. As of right now the leading response to this poll is "police injustice" even though the evidence is now showing that it was probably a good shoot. Its not just the people who may have valid reasons to get ginned up by idiots like Sharpton. Its also sheeple who blindly follow the media narrative and who apparently like to visit political forums.

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The more emotional people get and the more self-righteous, the harder it is to back down. If proven a good shoot, there will be claims of cover up, conspiracy, etc.

Mason66 said:

The head shot was the only fatal shot which means he would have gone down after that shot. How would he have received the other shots then?

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You can still collapse after being hit by non-fatal bullets.


Edit:
So I rewound my DVR because it was just on the news here:

Shawn Parcells, medical investigator, with diagram of shots:

*preliminary findings*

--shot at a distance

--shot top down, so head shots first. "Indicates Brown was bent over at the time the shots occurred"

--2 to head, other 4 ran down right shoulder, arm, base of thumb

The quote is kind of scary....I'm not picturing why he'd have been bent over unless he was trying to comply with the cop's orders. That is ONLY speculation, I dont know, and med investigator said the findings are *preliminary.*

Lakryte said:

The shooting someone 6 times is the problem, not the age.

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Both citizens and cops are taught to shoot until the threat stops. Doesnt matter how many it takes, but it should end when the threat ends.

I have no idea what the threat was in the Brown shooting yet.