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Do We Live in a Free Country?

Do we live in a free country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 36 42.4%
  • Nope

    Votes: 32 37.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 17 20.0%

  • Total voters
    85
Ok we agree there, we may disagree on who grants us rights, however when it comes to freedoms, those can be given and taken away by the powers that be. I may have worded it badly but what I'm trying to say is that being part of a society gives us some freedom, and also takes some freedoms away.

If you read the Bill of Rights, nowhere does it list your rights. in every instance of naming a right, it is restricting the government.
the two most important amendments are the 9th and 10th.
The 9th prohibits denying we have other rights not mentioned in the constitution. Doesn't specify how many they are. If the constitution granted rights, this amendment would grant any right you wanted. it doesn;t grant anything. it restricts denying rights.
All the rights mentioned in the constitution have THE in front of them. "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms" is a whole different thing than "A right to keep and bear arms."
 
The 10th amendment states, the executive branch and congress only have the powers specifically given to them in the Constitution.
our rights aren't spelled out because it's not granting our rights. The government power IS spelled out and restricted from exceeding.

The final part of the 10th says all other powers are reserved. Not given. Reserved. To the states and/or THE PEOPLE.

When officials exceed there Constitutional powers, they ROB us of rights not named. And it is unconstitutional and illegal for officials to do that.
 
I haven't had an accident but I have had run ins with the cops and they don't assume that.

If you have a problem with a cop ask to see his supervisor.

Also you should get to know the head guys in the police department in the area you live in. That always helps.

I don't worry about problems in Mexico. I am polite, just as everybody is polite. I'm the only gringo in town. makes me something of a celebrity.
My wife's family is prominent. doctors, lawyers, huge land owners, and politicians. and my wife has an inherited title in the Spanish nobility. Duquessa. Duchess.
 
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We are told we live in a free country. "Land of the free" yada yada yada. Simple question: "Do we live in a free country"?

I voted 'no', but could have voted 'other'. We are free(er), in a relative sense. than many other people now and in history, but we are not as free as many of us think we are. Not by a long shot. Too many of our freedoms have been chipped away one at a time for decades. It's really insidious the way it has happened.
 
I'll concede that there are plenty of freedoms that don't require a trade off, I misspoke there.

However, the post I replied to said that society is a limiter of freedoms. This is true but society also grants freedoms. That's the reason we form societies. We may have lost the freedom to run around naked in teh street but in return we gain the freedom to walk down the street without fear of harassment (in general).

the second is not a right
 
I don't worry about problems in Mexico. I am polite, just as everybody is polite. I'm the only gringo in town. makes me something of a celebrity.
My wife's family is prominent. doctors, lawyers, huge land owners, and politicians. and my wife has an inherited title in the Spanish nobility. Duquessa. Duchess.

Where I am that would make you a target. My buddy and I already had to pay 1 million pesos each to the cartel for our safety. That will not happen again.

I keep a low profile, drive my old cars and I am invisible. I am known around town for my old cars but in a good way, even by some police officers who for the most part are very nice people.
 
the second is not a right

I'm talking about freedoms different from rights.

As some people on here have commented, in Mexico there may be fewer rights but in a lot of cases more freedom.
 
You no voters should pack and move if you don't like your freedoms here.
 
I'm talking about freedoms different from rights.

As some people on here have commented, in Mexico there may be fewer rights but in a lot of cases more freedom.

definitions matter
 
We are told we live in a free country. "Land of the free" yada yada yada. Simple question: "Do we live in a free country"?
Other.

It depends what you mean when you say "free".

And for that matter, country, live, we, simple, question, in, and told.
 
You no voters should pack and move if you don't like your freedoms here.
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You no voters should pack and move if you don't like your freedoms here.
The very fact that people feel free to express their opinion of/dislike for how much/little freedom we have strongly indicates that we DO have freedom.
 
You no voters should pack and move if you don't like your freedoms here.
I vote in every election. I spend part of each year in my native state. Have a home there. Have to renew license plates and such, too.
 
Where I am that would make you a target. My buddy and I already had to pay 1 million pesos each to the cartel for our safety. That will not happen again.

I keep a low profile, drive my old cars and I am invisible. I am known around town for my old cars but in a good way, even by some police officers who for the most part are very nice people.


The cartels tried to setup where we live, but got chased out by the locals. The old Dons are some tough men with the respect of everybody. I know of one whose daughter got gang raped. our town armed up, loaded up, and went to the pueblo where the rapists lived, and killed every hombre in that pueblo older than 14. such is the influence of the grandees in ranching areas of Mexico.
 
Seems we constantly hear about how Social Security is going to run out of money. How come we never hear about welfare or food stamps running out of money? What's interesting is the first group "worked for" their money, but the second didn't.
Do we live in a freebee country?


before anyone gets confused, I don't condone vigilante justice (or excess) like I posted in previous post. Just pointing out parts of Mexico are still wild west.
 
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The cartels tried to setup where we live, but got chased out by the locals. The old Dons are some tough men with the respect of everybody. I know of one whose daughter got gang raped. our town armed up, loaded up, and went to the pueblo where the rapists lived, and killed every hombre in that pueblo older than 14. such is the influence of the grandees in ranching areas of Mexico.

When you live in a country with very little police protection that is the way things have to go sometimes.

I know the 4 guys that kidnapped my friend are no longer on this earth. They will not be kidnapping anybody else.
 
Do you have any actual argument besides baseless assertions?

I'll just start with point one, here in Maryland, a May-Issue state, my 2nd Amendment right stops at my front door. I do not have the right to bear arms. Care to explain how I am wrong? Because the law says YOU are.

Yes, Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus. You CAN buy and own guns in Maryland.
First of all, The Firearm Safety Act of 2013, which lawyers and judges refer to when they speak of the bill, bans the sale of 45 specific types of assault weapons. In addition to these banned firearms, the law also prohibits Maryland residents to purchase any magazines with more than 10 rounds. Those who already possess magazines with greater capacity before the deadline can keep them.
The New Maryland Gun Laws: What They Mean For Gun Buyers | Eye On Annapolis

Shotguns and rifles for hunting are not prohibited, of course. As are the guns not on the list of banned guns.

Go crazy, Lachean! Buy all the shotguns, rifles, and non-banned weapons you want! Have a ball! Guns are regulated in Maryland, is all. No big deal. It's safer for the public not to have big mags and assault weapons floating all over the place, as we have seen in recent years.

But you can rest assured that you can still own guns anywhere in the good ol' US of A. Maybe not the particular gun you want, but you have a bevy of choices.

The NRA has had ample opportunity to ensure wackos with military weaponry wouldn't shoot the faces off children, but it and gun culture devotees have not done so. So apparently the govt of Maryland stepped in with some steps in an effort to protect the public. That's what a government SHOULD do.

We all have rights. Even children whose faces were blown off, and babies shot in movie theaters. They have rights, too. You still have your gun rights. But it's just a little harder for the wackos to get military weapons, now, in Maryland to kill innocent people. And that's a good thing.
 
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A thread revolving around an undefined term is a pointless thread.

Define "Free" or this is just a waste of space.


You not only need to define freedom, you also need to define control. You also need to differentiate between types of control that inhibit freedom and types of control that ensure freedom. For example, laws against theft and murder control peoples actions, but they increase the freedom of all people who are not murderers or thieves.

However, the point about defining control is an important one. Control is not simply about coercion and violence which compels action in a top down fashion. It is far more complicated than that. Power and control are reproduced across society through various different methods. The ways in which we are controlled most effectively are not through means of violence and coercion, but instead through controlling the discourse. By controlling discourse and the ideas we are exposed to, it is not just our bodies that are controlled (which is all that can be accomplished through violence and coercion), our minds are also controlled. From the moment we are old enough to think, we are exposed to education, media, and social pressures which shape the ways in which we think. The ways in which we think are constituted by power. So we go to school and learn to believe something, watch tv/listen to radio/go online/etc and learn to believe something, we listen to our parents tell us what good behavior is, and so on. Through those means we are not only controlled by ideas, but we come to control ourselves through the ideas. We are also controlled through surveillance, the reorganization of space, and numerous other complex methods of control. This means that the vast majority of the mechanisms of control we are exposed to are "invisible." Having been constituted by power, we then go on to reproduce power ourselves. Even resistance is produced by power.

Long story short, I would say we are not free. Not because the big gubmint is trying to take our guns (government doesn't care about your guns, they control people quite sufficiently without having to resort to such base methods of control), but because they control behavior by controlling our ideas.
 
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government doesn't care about your guns?
Where have you been the last 20 to 30 years?
Don't you pay attention to the gun control bills introduced in congress? We keep shooting them down, and the left keeps introducing them.
They know they only have to be successful once. We have to defeat them again and again, everytime.
 
government doesn't care about your guns?
Where have you been the last 20 to 30 years?
Don't you pay attention to the gun control bills introduced in congress? We keep shooting them down, and the left keeps introducing them.
They know they only have to be successful once. We have to defeat them again and again, everytime.


:roll: The trend in American politics has actually been one of deregulation over the last 30 years. Gun control, like many other social issues, is a wedge issue politicians use to rile the bases. However, politicians (more accurately the political and economic elite) don't actually give a **** about them. They keep the simpletons focused on guns, abortions, gay marriage, and scary foreigners while the elite do exactly what they want on issues they actually give a **** about. As I said, government controls people quite effectively without worrying about their guns. The whole guns as the last defense of liberty schtick is nonsense. Intelligence and education are the only thing that is going to defend liberty, guns don't matter at all.
 
:roll: The trend in American politics has actually been one of deregulation over the last 30 years. Gun control, like many other social issues, is a wedge issue politicians use to rile the bases. However, politicians (more accurately the political and economic elite) don't actually give a **** about them. They keep the simpletons focused on guns, abortions, gay marriage, and scary foreigners while the elite do exactly what they want on issues they actually give a **** about. As I said, government controls people quite effectively without worrying about their guns. The whole guns as the last defense of liberty schtick is nonsense. Intelligence and education are the only thing that is going to defend liberty, guns don't matter at all.
I agree with all you say except the guns. Recent years, military who won't affirm they will fire on citizens if ordered, are being removed from the military. That an eminent possibility of fire fights with civilians is apparently serious concern of the executive branch, lends credence their intent is also serious to take our guns.
 
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We are told we live in a free country. "Land of the free" yada yada yada. Simple question: "Do we live in a free country"?

No, we do not live in a free country. I am sorely reminded of that every April 15th when I pay my Federal and State income taxes.:)
 
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