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Do We Live in a Free Country?

Do we live in a free country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 36 42.4%

  • Nope

    Votes: 32 37.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 20.0%
  • Total voters
    85
TheDemSocialist said:
We are told we live in a free country. "Land of the free" yada yada yada. Simple question: "Do we live in a free country"?
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On a relative scale, it's still better than most; but our freedoms have become further and further restricted by gross expansion of government size and power.
 
SgtRock said:
Damn Lachean I didn't know you was a felon.
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No idea if he is or isn't, I will say, if so, he was free not to commit that crime and with freedoms come both consequences and responsibilities. Freedom requires making good choices to remain free.
 
I have had the opportunity during a 50 year career, to work and live in many parts of the world, for several years at a time, duration of project. negotiatians with foreign officials frequently a part of my daily work load. They tend to keep coming back.

Currently I have homes both in my native USA and Mexico (wife is Mexican).

Mexico does not "recognize" rights recognized in the US. Yet in many ways Mexico has more freedom. Want to open a business? Line your living room with shelves, stock them with products, hang out a sign. That's it.
The government isn't regulating everything in Mexico.
I still prefer America over the rest of the world.
 
Baralis said:
Human society is inherently the retardation of freedom. Humans have a strong natural desire to control their environment and generally any others found within that environment.
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It limits certain freedoms yes. But society also grants freedoms.

Different freedoms are mutually exclusive. To enjoy one freedom one has to lose another, it is an exchange, a transaction. The fact that people value different freedoms so differently is what makes it all so difficult.
 
TurtleDude said:
freer than most-far less free than what the founders intended
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Well, I'm not too trusting of the definition of "freedom" when it's concocted by a group of people who were mostly slave owners.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
The founders intended for white men to have various positive rights. Such as the right to own blacks as property and horsewhip them. They also intended for men to be able to beat their wives if they needed disciplining. They also intended white men to have the right to slaughter Indians when they were in the way of progress. So there are all sorts of positive rights / freedoms that men like the founders don't enjoy today. ;)

I have always thought these appeals to "the founders" were ridiculous. By any measure we are morally superior to them. They had no concept at all of the world we live in today.

If The Founding Fathers Were Alive Today, They
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And what founders wrote about these things you speak off?? Any links to these writtings by the founders of your right to horsewhip, and the right to beat your wife? Slight hyperbole maybe.
 
SgtRock said:
Damn Lachean I didn't know you was a felon.
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Its worse than that, I live in Maryland.

Cephus said:
No idea if he is or isn't, I will say, if so, he was free not to commit that crime and with freedoms come both consequences and responsibilities. Freedom requires making good choices to remain free.
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No Cephus I'm not a felon, he was joking.
 
Nilly said:
It limits certain freedoms yes. But society also grants freedoms.

Different freedoms are mutually exclusive. To enjoy one freedom one has to lose another, it is an exchange, a transaction. The fact that people value different freedoms so differently is what makes it all so difficult.
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I disagree. You don't lose any freedoms from gays being able to serve in the military. You don't lose any freedoms by people being able to smoke pot in their own home or own firearms.
 
Hatuey said:
Well, I'm not too trusting of the definition of "freedom" when it's concocted by a group of people who were mostly slave owners.
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that sounds dramatic but its stupid. Just apply the freedoms they wanted for white land owning males for everyone else who is able to now vote
 
SgtRock said:
You are all just a waste of space. Pawns in a meaningless game put here for my amusement.
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That's pretty much how I approach this Debate Politics thing too.

But don't think for a moment I don't appreciate the amusement.

I thank you all.
 
Lachean said:
I do not have the right to keep and bear arms, I do not have the right to privacy, I do not have the right to organize and peacefully protest (see whats happening RIGHT NOW in Ferguson)

No, I'm not free.
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You do have the right to keep and bear arms.
You do have the right to privacy, in accordance with the law (there is no such thing as a "right" without an exception or that is 100%)
You do have the right to organize and peacefully protest.

Yes, Lachean. You are free. If you don't think so, go stay in Libya or Iran or Egypt or Venezuela or Mexico or India or China for a while.
 
JumpinJack said:
You do have the right to keep and bear arms.
You do have the right to privacy, in accordance with the law (there is no such thing as a "right" without an exception or that is 100%)
You do have the right to organize and peacefully protest.

Yes, Lachean. You are free. If you don't think so, go stay in Libya or Iran or Egypt or Venezuela or Mexico or India or China for a while.
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Do you have any actual argument besides baseless assertions?

I'll just start with point one, here in Maryland, a May-Issue state, my 2nd Amendment right stops at my front door. I do not have the right to bear arms. Care to explain how I am wrong? Because the law says YOU are.
 
yobarnacle said:
I have had the opportunity during a 50 year career, to work and live in many parts of the world, for several years at a time, duration of project. negotiatians with foreign officials frequently a part of my daily work load. They tend to keep coming back.

Currently I have homes both in my native USA and Mexico (wife is Mexican).

Mexico does not "recognize" rights recognized in the US. Yet in many ways Mexico has more freedom. Want to open a business? Line your living room with shelves, stock them with products, hang out a sign. That's it.
The government isn't regulating everything in Mexico.
I still prefer America over the rest of the world.
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That is exactly what I do. I work out of my house, in Mexico. It is the safest way to operate.

I don't worry about 15 government agencies busting down my door demanding I do things their way.

I am an American living in Mexico so I have experienced it on both sides.

I don't have police cars behind me checking my license plate to see if they can bust me on something.

Mexico is much more free in what you are allowed to do.
 
TurtleDude said:
I disagree. You don't lose any freedoms from gays being able to serve in the military. You don't lose any freedoms by people being able to smoke pot in their own home or own firearms.
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I'll concede that there are plenty of freedoms that don't require a trade off, I misspoke there.

However, the post I replied to said that society is a limiter of freedoms. This is true but society also grants freedoms. That's the reason we form societies. We may have lost the freedom to run around naked in teh street but in return we gain the freedom to walk down the street without fear of harassment (in general).
 
Mason66 said:
That is exactly what I do. I work out of my house, in Mexico. It is the safest way to operate.

I don't worry about 15 government agencies busting down my door demanding I do things their way.

I am an American living in Mexico so I have experienced it on both sides.

I don't have police cars behind me checking my license plate to see if they can bust me on something.

Mexico is much more free in what you are allowed to do.
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correct in you have liberty until you run afoul of the law. Then you have serious problems. being involved in an automobile accident is a felony in Mexico and you will go to jail.
My auto insurance in mexico pays my lawyer, not damage to the cars. so far, I have avoided accidents. :)
 
yobarnacle said:
correct in you have liberty until you run afoul of the law. Then you have serious problems. being involved in an automobile accident is a felony in Mexico and you will go to jail.
My auto insurance in mexico pays my lawyer, not damage to the cars. so far, I have avoided accidents. :)
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You have to live within the law.

An auto accident is not a felony. If you hit, or if they hit you, a motorcycle, bicycle or a person you are at fault no matter what. This does not jive with the vehicle code and nobody that I have asked can tell me what the law is that contradicts the vehicle code.

My insurance handles the case up to 3 million pesos so I am covered if something happens.

If you have full coverage your car will be fixed as well as your legal problems.
 
Nilly said:
I'll concede that there are plenty of freedoms that don't require a trade off, I misspoke there.

However, the post I replied to said that society is a limiter of freedoms. This is true but society also grants freedoms. That's the reason we form societies. We may have lost the freedom to run around naked in teh street but in return we gain the freedom to walk down the street without fear of harassment (in general).
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It is very important to use precise language anytime you deal with legal issues. Freedoms, rights, privileges, powers, each have specific legal definitions, not always in agreement with common usage or Websters dictionary.
Neither society nor government grants rights. They are yours because you are human. Since I believe God made humans, I believe my rights were His gift. you do not have to believe in God to have human rights.
 
yobarnacle said:
It is very important to use precise language anytime you deal with legal issues. Freedoms, rights, privileges, powers, each have specific legal definitions, not always in agreement with common usage or Websters dictionary.
Neither society nor government grants rights. They are yours because you are human. Since I believe God made humans, I believe my rights were His gift. you do not have to believe in God to have human rights.
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Do you make a distinction between freedoms and rights?
 
Mason66 said:
You have to live within the law.

An auto accident is not a felony. If you hit, or if they hit you, a motorcycle, bicycle or a person you are at fault no matter what. This does not jive with the vehicle code and nobody that I have asked can tell me what the law is that contradicts the vehicle code.

My insurance handles the case up to 3 million pesos so I am covered if something happens.

If you have full coverage your car will be fixed as well as your legal problems.
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One of my brother-in -laws is a lawyer. he told me I would be guilty in any type of accident, until I proved myself innocent. guilty because I'm gringo and have deep pockets. :D I am not going to test this information. I hope.
 
yobarnacle said:
One of my brother-in -laws is a lawyer. he told me I would be guilty in any type of accident, until I proved myself innocent. guilty because I'm gringo and have deep pockets. :D I am not going to test this information. I hope.
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I haven't had an accident but I have had run ins with the cops and they don't assume that.

If you have a problem with a cop ask to see his supervisor.

Also you should get to know the head guys in the police department in the area you live in. That always helps.
 
Nilly said:
Do you make a distinction between freedoms and rights?
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The way you were using freedom in your post has very little to do with your rights. Many of your rights define freedoms. Freedom of the press is part of the Right to Free speech. do you see the difference? You have the freedom to vote. But that's not a right. In some states convicted felons even after completing sentence can't vote. If you recently moved to the area you can't vote in local elections. failure to register or not a citizen, you can't vote.
You have a right, if there is enough like you, to alter or abolish the government. You do not have the freedom to overthrow the government. The only excuse for rebellion is success.
 
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yobarnacle said:
The way you were using freedom in your post has very little to do with your rights. Many of your rights define freedoms. Freedom of the press is part of the Right to Free speech. do you see the difference? You have the freedom to vote. But that's not a right. In some states convicted felons even after completing sentence can't vote.
You have a right, if there is enough like you, to alter or abolish the government. You do not have the freedom to overthrow the government. The only excuse for rebellion is success.
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Ok we agree there, we may disagree on who grants us rights, however when it comes to freedoms, those can be given and taken away by the powers that be. I may have worded it badly but what I'm trying to say is that being part of a society gives us some freedom, and also takes some freedoms away.
 
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