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Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?

  • Im a right leaning American, yes.

    Votes: 11 29.7%

  • Im a left leaning American, yes.

    Votes: 7 18.9%

  • Im not American, yes.

    Votes: 2 5.4%

  • Im a right leaning American, no.

    Votes: 6 16.2%

  • Im a left leaning American, no.

    Votes: 9 24.3%

  • Im not American, no.

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Total voters
    37
iguanaman said:
You are falling in the same trap as Bush, these terrorists thrive on fear, it is their food. You want to feed them endlessly and then are surprised at how they multiply. There is no amount of military force that will stop desperate young men from becoming terrorists short of killing all the young men. That is genocide and not an option. We have put ourself in the middle of a 1000 year old power struggle and must step carefully. That said, since ISIS is now in possession of many of the weapons we gave the Iraqi's it is now our responsibility to take out as many of them as we can. Since Maliki has never sent any arms to the Kurds we must also make sure they are now getting them either from Bagdad or us. The other part is the formation of a new inclusive Govt. that gives Sunnis a voice and will hopefully change their minds about ISIS like we changed their minds about Alqaeda in the "awakening".



Onetime U.S. allies in Sunni Awakening sit out new Iraq conflict - LA Times
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Look, I dont care what they want. I dont care to make sense of these people. They would not care if we did. What WE need to do is kill our enemies, like I said we got quite good at COIN warfare. Eventually the stream will dry up, as it did before Obama squandered the peace-which is evidence that we need to commit to solving the problem, NOT committing to dates on a calendar.
 
zoetherat said:
The Shiites screwed over the Sunnis after the last war. Consequently, the Sunnis are mostly with Isis now. We shouldn't help the Shiites until they get rid of Maliki. Otherwise, we'd be rewarding him for causing this mess. The Iraqi army of Sunnis and Shiites outnumbered Isis at least 15 to 1 and was better armed (with equipment we gave them) and they still fled. If we arm the Kurds, we at least know it's not going to be a complete waste.
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Understood, but the problem isn't lack of armament or experience-the kurds know how to fight-what they DONT know how to do is stand up against a constant stream of islamists. We need to commit to expelling ISIS, or not go in at all.
 
I have an idea to resolve the earlier argument about the poll options. There are many people on this forum who don't identify with either the left or the right, myself included. There are considerably less people who are not Americans on the forum, as Telekat pointed out. I think we should scrap the poll options most people list and replace it with something like this:

I lean to the left, yes.
I lean to the right, yes.
I do not lean significantly left or right, yes.
I lean to the left, no.
I lean to the right, no.
I do not lean significantly left or right, no.

Notice the key word that is underlined, bolded, and in italics. Significantly. Like US Conservative pointed out, the majority of people lean one way or the other, but in many cases, this lean is not significant enough to bother mentioning. I, for example, lean almost imperceptibly to the right. I put a higher priority on economic issues than on social issues, so I could, just barely, be said to lean right. I don't see how this is even remotely significant enough to mention, but the polls usually only give options involving a lean.

Opinions and feedback are appreciated, as are likes.
 
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US Conservative said:
Look, I dont care what they want. I dont care to make sense of these people. They would not care if we did. What WE need to do is kill our enemies, like I said we got quite good at COIN warfare. Eventually the stream will dry up, as it did before Obama squandered the peace-which is evidence that we need to commit to solving the problem, NOT committing to dates on a calendar.
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We won last time because the Sunnis switched sides. That won't happen again now that they know the Shiites won't keep their word.
 
US Conservative said:
Look, I dont care what they want. I dont care to make sense of these people. They would not care if we did. What WE need to do is kill our enemies, like I said we got quite good at COIN warfare. Eventually the stream will dry up, as it did before Obama squandered the peace-which is evidence that we need to commit to solving the problem, NOT committing to dates on a calendar.
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Ask the Israelis, the stream NEVER dries up. We must divert it like we did in the awakening before we sold the Sunnis out by picking Maliki to lead. That was the "success" of the surge. It was not our prowess at warfare or the extra troops. Stop kidding yourself, the problem will never be solved with more violence, quite the opposite.
 
US Conservative said:
Understood, but the problem isn't lack of armament or experience-the kurds know how to fight-what they DONT know how to do is stand up against a constant stream of islamists. We need to commit to expelling ISIS, or not go in at all.
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Maliki refused to send any of the arms we promised the Kurds and ISIS has a lot of our weapons instead. That has been the problem.
 
US Conservative said:
Understood, but the problem isn't lack of armament or experience-the kurds know how to fight-what they DONT know how to do is stand up against a constant stream of islamists. We need to commit to expelling ISIS, or not go in at all.
Click to expand...

Isis is better armed then the Kurds. And I don't think this is an all or nothing proposition. If we keep the Kurds from being overrun, that's an accomplishment in itself. Plus, it leaves open the prospect that a competent alliance against Isis will form at a later date.
 
zoetherat said:
We won last time because the Sunnis switched sides. That won't happen again now that they know the Shiites won't keep their word.
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Perhaps, or perhaps the Sunni's are like those in Syria-often terrified to say anything to isis but wanting the old ways back. Malaki is history-time will tell if thats enough.

In the mean time lets send Isis to their virgins in style.
 
iguanaman said:
Ask the Israelis, the stream NEVER dries up. We must divert it like we did in the awakening before we sold the Sunnis out by picking Maliki to lead. That was the "success" of the surge. It was not our prowess at warfare or the extra troops. Stop kidding yourself, the problem will never be solved with more violence, quite the opposite.
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So then we remain ever vigilant, no rest when you are the worlds superpower. Ironically Russia or China would just shell the whole region and kill everyone.

We did not "pick" Maliki, he was elected. He wasn't our puppet-and if he was why did Obama claim HE is the reason why we aren't in Iraq now?
 
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iguanaman said:
Maliki refused to send any of the arms we promised the Kurds and ISIS has a lot of our weapons instead. That has been the problem.
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Yes to an extent, but lets not forget these are the SAME terrorists Obama wanted to arm in Syria. Assad is no angel-but he's better than this.
 
zoetherat said:
Isis is better armed then the Kurds. And I don't think this is an all or nothing proposition. If we keep the Kurds from being overrun, that's an accomplishment in itself. Plus, it leaves open the prospect that a competent alliance against Isis will form at a later date.
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The Kurds are missing one thing-anti-armor. They have RPG's of limited effectiveness but they DONT have guided rockets like the Kornet. They also dont have all of the urban centers ISIS does in Syria-and so they are more exposed. What they NEED is some javelins (probably already there) and air support to destroy ISIS's longer range weapons (tanks/artillery). Remember, the Iraqi military is still fighting, and they are supplying what they can to the kurds. This is still Iraq for now.
Last I heard-Obama had only struck 4 technical vehicles. Thats NOTHING, we need to step it up. It SHOULD already be open season there, but Obama does not want to commit, especially until polling is analyzed.

A great thread from a great forum- http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...ivil-Unrest-in-Iraq-2013-14-(Read-first-post)

And inbred backwards hicks being inbred backwards hicks...you are seeing back in time to the 7th century-dont let the cars fool you.
 
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US Conservative said:
So then we remain ever vigilant, no rest when you are the worlds superpower. Ironically Russia or China would just shell the whole region and kill everyone.

We did not "pick" Maliki, he was elected. He wasn't our puppet-and if he was why did Obama claim HE is the reason why we aren't in Iraq now?
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I did not say he was our puppet it is quite the opposite. He's a terrorist and Iranian sympathizer that the CIA found and got Bush to approve him. This is a good read...What We Left Behind - The New Yorker
 
US Conservative said:
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Yes to an extent, but lets not forget these are the SAME terrorists Obama wanted to arm in Syria. Assad is no angel-but he's better than this.
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So now we are left picking the LEAST abhorrent genocidal maniacs? Is this the result you expected when we upset the balance of power in the M.E.?
This is a good piece on the effectiveness of airpower alone. It's pretty optimistic that we can at least stop any more advances by ISIS. Taking back the cities is another story. ISIS: Can air power stop its advance? (Opinion) - CNN.com
 
TeleKat said:
Reagan was not perfect by any means, but in regards to the Middle East he hit the nail on the head. These people have been fighting since the beginning of time. Peace in the Middle East is actually a biblical sign of the end-times. Who, in their right mind, would suggest we get involved in centuries upon centuries of brutal conflict?
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Really? After seeing some of the photos of what's happening over there, who in their right mind doesn't want to help some of those poor people out. I agree that it's simply infeasible to sort it out but if I had the means to clear it up it would take a lot to stop me from doing it. Obama is one of the only people in the world right now who has access to those means.
 
US Conservative said:
Obama has already had Special Forces in Iraq for months, and now in light of massacres of civilians we are scaling up our presence-including airstrikes against military targets. Obama has suggested this could go on for some time.

Is Obama right to go back into Iraq?
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Al-Nusra-ISIS-Al-Qaeda-Merge-Obama-Sends-Housewarming.jpg

Iraq-Syria-ISIS-ISIL-Map-June-12-2014.jpg
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We should stay the **** out of Iraq. There are innocent people all over the world being mistreated or murdered by evil sub-human scum. No Iraqi or any other foreigner is worth spending American lives and money on. Our policy should be is if someone ****s with us we bomb the living **** out of them and we do not rebuild that country we bombed, nor do we send aid of any kind. Besides I do not know about you but Obama is the last person who should be in charge of the military. Almost every right winger including myself said if you leave before the job is done the terrorists are just going to take control and we will be right back in Iraq.
 
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Honestly, I no longer see any difference between Obama and Dubya. Remember at the end of Animal Farm in which the pigs and humans get drunk and celebrate and the other animals can no longer tell which one is human and which is a pig? Thats what Im feeling now.
 
The only wars that make things better are the wars that were worth fighting. Everything else just causes more chaos. We took Iraq from a stable, albeit cruel dictatorship, and turned it into a weak, neutered pseudo-democracy that has no ability (or will) to control the violence within its own borders.

We should have never gone in there in the first place and I DO blame Bush for that. However, that ship has already sailed and now that we've turned that country upside down we need to do whats right and fight the fight that is worth fighting. ISIS is horrible and they are only there doing the things they do because we gave them that opportunity. We need to eliminate them.
 
NO-'After almost 12 years in Iraq, it's past time to get out and stay the hell out, we should have never have been there in the first place, you broke it you bought it, remember??

There's too many other more important issues in the USA to address, like our eroding infrastructure..

But at this point It doesn't matter what Obama does, the clowns and whack jobs on the right will find, a way to criticize Obama for going back in...
 
Nilly said:
Really? After seeing some of the photos of what's happening over there, who in their right mind doesn't want to help some of those poor people out. I agree that it's simply infeasible to sort it out but if I had the means to clear it up it would take a lot to stop me from doing it. Obama is one of the only people in the world right now who has access to those means.
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US meddling created the ISIS situation. US meddling has always made things worse, especially in regards to the Middle East, and this time it's no different.
 
OnWisconsin said:
The only wars that make things better are the wars that were worth fighting. Everything else just causes more chaos. We took Iraq from a stable, albeit cruel dictatorship, and turned it into a weak, neutered pseudo-democracy that has no ability (or will) to control the violence within its own borders.

We should have never gone in there in the first place and I DO blame Bush for that. However, that ship has already sailed and now that we've turned that country upside down we need to do whats right and fight the fight that is worth fighting. ISIS is horrible and they are only there doing the things they do because we gave them that opportunity. We need to eliminate them.
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^this. I couldn't have said it better.
 
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