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Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 49 55.1%
  • No

    Votes: 31 34.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 9 10.1%

  • Total voters
    89
We raised a lot of money and sold out the last couple shows, but the lions share came from a single donor and replacement of the director was a condition.

She cited the failure to even contact other opera companies which have dealt successfully with similar problems. We had people from them fly in at their own expense to talk about how they went about it.

Had to go over the directors head to even hold additional meetings on the subject.

Awesome story. Good for you. People should be exposed to opera and it looks like you good people are making sure that happens. Bad management has a huge impact on any operation, no matter the venue.
 
I really would like to hear more about the "utopia" that some envision for our future. It might enlighten us if they have some good ideas. All I hear is discontent with something that has made us into the greatest country the world has ever known, and it sounds more like wishful thinking than reality, but I haven't heard their arguments for changing things to be what they think is best. Why do I never hear why they feel we need a change? "Because we know best" isn't going to work without hearing some facts, since most of us passed childhood a long time ago, when those words had some meaning! Sorry....

I know it looks like a cliché, but there is absolute truth regarding the efforts of the Progressive Machine. It's all about social, economic, and environmental justice. A one world government is the objective, of which the principles this country was founded on has little place.

It will fail, but it will take time for this to run it's course. I know I've posted this before, but consider the mindset of the nation when Progressives pushed through prohibition. How was it possible to get so many people on board such a completely crazy idea? Somehow they did, and the result was a disaster, just like the Progressives run is proving to be this time. The country survived then, and it will survive this.
 
How is that really different from corporate CEOs and shareholders?

Because they won't sacrifice the entire company to get theirs. They have this understanding that their income comes from the company, a point that unions too often forget.
 
And Corporations are NOT selfish, greedy, and only look out for their own best interest?? :lamo, yea it's a 2 way street, and save all of your self righteous BS, how many others have used their intellect, and hard work and put in 5-10-15-20 years, only to be put on the street because of some at will employment BS, where they can fire you anytime they want, even if they don't like you, or the color of your skin..
,

Corporations are supposed to be greedy, selfish and look out for their best interests - that's how they stay in business. If they have to sacrifice 100 jobs to keep the other 1,000, they will. But a union will sacrifice the whole 1,100 in order to get a concession that can kill a company.
 
Say how are your really smart and "educated" computer workers doing in your non union, "successful" system????????/

Seems not so well................LMAO


Revealed: Apple and Google’s wage-fixing cartel involved dozens more companies, over one million employees | PandoDaily

And the judge just tossed the $400 million settlement as TO LOW...........

Actually, I know a couple that are doing quite well.

Still don't see your complaint other than you think something should be given instead of earned.

As to the wage fixing thing, tough **** for one, for another, how much of it would of been done if there had actually been competition in the market place? How many new companies have been able to startup since those two achieved a near monopoly? We need to loosen regulations and reduce costs so more companies can be started to increase the level of competition, not add more laws to "punish the evil corporations" that actually hurt them very little but suppress any real competition rising up.
 
A distributist state ?

You mean a Centrally planned demand economy where each is given according to his needs ?

Where oligarchs are the arbiter of equity and fairness ?

That's been tried with expected results over and over and over.

The only question I have is why on earth would anyone still support such a system ?

IOW, you don't know what distributism is.

Wikipedia is your friend:

Distributism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Distributism is much more decentralized than either Capitalism or Socialism.
 
Labor unions are still good, in every sector (even the public), in protecting worker's rights. Not everything is covered by OSHA. For example, making sure overtime is passed around equaly; vacation is distributed evenly and fairly; the punishment fits the infraction.


worker's rights are posted in every workplace

there are posters mandated by state and federal law that spell out employee rights

they are even bilingual...in english and spanish

i dont know of a business that has over 25 employees that hasnt hired an attorney to make sure some sort of handbook is written up

do you really think that "employees" dont know their rights, or benefits anymore?
 
As noted by the former President of UAW, private sector unions have not taken the economic health of the employer into account. GM and Chrysler are great examples of this disconnect. The important point is that the labor unions in the private sector can either be partners in a companies efforts, or they can make their membership unemployed.

This is not the case in the public sector.

Whether or not it is good for the economy is irrelevant. Eventually society will get to the point where it weeds out the bad demands and the economy will self correct. It is not the job of the government to step in and tell the people they cannot for unions.
 
You have that first part wrong and that's where the system breaks. It's the government people have a responsibility to change. Government regulates business.

Government meddles in business and acts as a placebo to make the American people feel better about it, while actually protecting us from nothing. In a society where the people drive the market, that is where the people are really protected.
 
Whether or not it is good for the economy is irrelevant. Eventually society will get to the point where it weeds out the bad demands and the economy will self correct. It is not the job of the government to step in and tell the people they cannot for unions.

I agree. However, as evidenced in the public sector, the government is already deciding whether people must join a union. That is a problem, considering the economic harm unions have carried over from the private sector, and put in the laps of tax payers in the public sector. There is no coincidence cities are going bankrupt under the weight of public sector pensions and benefits. They did the same thing in the private sector.
 
worker's rights are posted in every workplace

there are posters mandated by state and federal law that spell out employee rights

they are even bilingual...in english and spanish

i dont know of a business that has over 25 employees that hasnt hired an attorney to make sure some sort of handbook is written up

do you really think that "employees" dont know their rights, or benefits anymore?

And none of those legal rights ensure there overtime is distributed evenly. Or if you cut hours because of lack of work that is distributed evenly. Or that Vacation is offered equally. Or that parking is distributed evenly........
 
I agree. However, as evidenced in the public sector, the government is already deciding whether people must join a union. That is a problem, considering the economic harm unions have carried over from the private sector, and put in the laps of tax payers in the public sector. There is no coincidence cities are going bankrupt under the weight of public sector pensions and benefits. They did the same thing in the private sector.

On the Federal level, that would be no, they dont have to join the Union.
 
And none of those legal rights ensure there overtime is distributed evenly. Or if you cut hours because of lack of work that is distributed evenly. Or that Vacation is offered equally. Or that parking is distributed evenly........

Many things cannot be distributed evenly. If a managerial job comes open, they can't give the job to every applicant evenly. Simple provisions of employment-related legislation can instruct employers to aim for a reasonable standard of fairness and avoid favoritism. But there is no way to mandate across-the-board equality in the workplace without creating massive inefficiencies having to revisit decisions endlessly, and so it does no good that unions would try to police this throughout the economy.

As it is, unions typically do not support equality and even distribution among their own ranks. They want special treatment on the basis of seniority, and beyond that their only real priority is their own members (at the expense of all non-members).
 
And none of those legal rights ensure there overtime is distributed evenly. Or if you cut hours because of lack of work that is distributed evenly. Or that Vacation is offered equally. Or that parking is distributed evenly........


how much of a nanny state do you want?

vacations are spelled out in every handbook i have ever read

parking? are you kidding me?

omg....and people wonder why union favorability is falling at an extreme pace
 
Many things cannot be distributed evenly. If a managerial job comes open, they can't give the job to every applicant evenly. Simple provisions of employment-related legislation can instruct employers to aim for a reasonable standard of fairness and avoid favoritism. But there is no way to mandate across-the-board equality in the workplace without creating massive inefficiencies having to revisit decisions endlessly, and so it does no good that unions would try to police this throughout the economy.

As it is, unions typically do not support equality and even distribution among their own ranks. They want special treatment on the basis of seniority, and beyond that their only real priority is their own members (at the expense of all non-members).
I don't entirely agree with that. Their real priority is union management/leadership, in other words themselves, and the members are simply a means to that end.
 
how much of a nanny state do you want?

vacations are spelled out in every handbook i have ever read

parking? are you kidding me?

omg....and people wonder why union favorability is falling at an extreme pace

I dont want a nanny state. I dont want laws regulating these things. These are the job of the union. Just because something is spelled out in a manual doesnt mean they have any force without laws behind them. The non-union jobs I have had didnt distribute the choice of when to take vacation evenly at all. The boses favorite people got to take their vacation whenever they wanted to and could walk in and get the next day off and the people who werent had to ask for vacation two weeks in advance.
 
Many things cannot be distributed evenly. If a managerial job comes open, they can't give the job to every applicant evenly. Simple provisions of employment-related legislation can instruct employers to aim for a reasonable standard of fairness and avoid favoritism. But there is no way to mandate across-the-board equality in the workplace without creating massive inefficiencies having to revisit decisions endlessly, and so it does no good that unions would try to police this throughout the economy.

As it is, unions typically do not support equality and even distribution among their own ranks. They want special treatment on the basis of seniority, and beyond that their only real priority is their own members (at the expense of all non-members).

The managerial job thing is a strawman to my point because I didnt mention it and know the union has no control over it. Yes, seniority is a good way to determine things.

I will have to admit, in a lot of open shops the union will only fight for their members, but why shouldnt they. Their members are who joined the union and paid the dues of the union.
 
I dont want a nanny state. I dont want laws regulating these things. These are the job of the union. Just because something is spelled out in a manual doesnt mean they have any force without laws behind them. The non-union jobs I have had didnt distribute the choice of when to take vacation evenly at all. The boses favorite people got to take their vacation whenever they wanted to and could walk in and get the next day off and the people who werent had to ask for vacation two weeks in advance.

So the moral of the story is, if one applies themselves they could become a favorite of the boss too. Never a good thing to be the bosses least favorite.
 
So the moral of the story is, if one applies themselves they could become a favorite of the boss too. Never a good thing to be the bosses least favorite.

A person shouldnt have to be an a$$ kisser to get treated fairly.
 
A person shouldnt have to be an a$$ kisser to get treated fairly.

Ass kisser.

Well, you know, it just might be possible to become the bosses favorite by going above and beyond the call of duty, having a good attitude, and always looking for ways to help the business improve.

But then, who wants to be considered a valuable employee anyway? The boss should think themselves lucky the employee even shows up.
 
Ass kisser.

Well, you know, it just might be possible to become the bosses favorite by going above and beyond the call of duty, having a good attitude, and always looking for ways to help the business improve.

But then, who wants to be considered a valuable employee anyway? The boss should think themselves lucky the employee even shows up.

Yes, a person should do that as well. Since there are fair bosses and unfair bosses, the union helps protect the worker from the unfair boss and the workers working for the fair boss still gets treated fairly. Set up an official award system for good work and good work can still be rewarded.
 
A person shouldnt have to be an a$$ kisser to get treated fairly.

Human nature? Both win - the boss gets ego strokes...employee gets preferential treatment. It might not be fair, but it is what it is, I guess. Thankfully, I retired early and I'm out of the rat race! It probably won't change, either, with the competition for jobs these days! Everyone is stressed! :thumbdown:

Greetings, Amandi. :2wave:
 
Yes, a person should do that as well. Since there are fair bosses and unfair bosses, the union helps protect the worker from the unfair boss and the workers working for the fair boss still gets treated fairly. Set up an official award system for good work and good work can still be rewarded.

Actually, the union helps protect the crap employee, and doesn't care about the health of the boss. No need to go above and beyond, or do whatever is necessary to improve the business, that would just be wasted effort.

Drones do well in union jobs.

I've always preferred to help people achieve all they can and provide an environment where that is possible.
 
Actually, the union helps protect the crap employee, and doesn't care about the health of the boss. No need to go above and beyond, or do whatever is necessary to improve the business, that would just be wasted effort.

Drones do well in union jobs.

I've always preferred to help people achieve all they can and provide an environment where that is possible.

Unfortunately, bosses do have a bad habit of not documenting bad workers to prove that they are bad workers. If they would do that simple thing, they would be able to punish the bad workers.

Again, set up a reward system for extraordinary work to reward the people who do extra work and let all the others get treated at a base fair level.
 
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