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Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 49 55.1%

  • No

    Votes: 31 34.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 9 10.1%
  • Total voters
    89
I consider Unions a necessary evil and what I mean by evil is they often behave just as their business counterparts in the very issues they champion against. They also go to far many times and not only hurt businesses but also those employed at those businesses. Unions I believe are more about the unions and less about the people they so called represent. Cut off the union dues and watch how fast they suddenly become disinterested in the plights of the working class.

That said Unions and their lobbyist are an important part of the balance in Washington. In recent years some congressmen and business lobbyist have suggested we do things like remove minimum wage, stop overtime pay or raise the hours needed to reach overtime, reduce vacation time, ect. If they had their way we would be set back 150 years in labor laws. We think immigrant labor is a problem now wait until corporations can work you 80 hours at $2 and hour with no or little overtime pay. Americans would suddenly be out of work as they would be replaced by immigrant labor that would be willing to work in such circumstances.

In short I see it as two entities who are greedy and self serving and not really interested in the little guy, its all about the money. But we cannot let one side or the other relinquish all the control or we are going to be in for some ugly times.
 
Those who consider Unions NON-useful should go back to working conditions before Unions.
Such as not having weekends off and safety improvements just for starters .
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Many people often claim that labor and trade unions are no longer needed, because "safety regulations, fair wages, days off, 8 hour work day, and child labor" have already been won. They claim because of this labor, and trade unions are no longer needed. My question is: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?
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8-hour work day? My last job was a 14-16hr. My current job is a 12hr and I'm pushing for more. I don't know wtf you're talkin about. It was 'won'? You mean "lost", only working 8 hours making your income smaller.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Did I say I was a "red herring"? Was just stating a fact.
Click to expand...

One that does not change his statement of FACT. Unions are shills for the democrat party.

Im reminded of the guy who goes to the dentist and is told he has a cavity-to which he replies "yeah but they aren't ALL cavities". :doh
 
I see a bunch of people talking about the usefulness of unions but none of them are actually in one. Let me give you some quick facts about my two jobs:

Green Tokai
Maysville, KY
Pay: $14.60 an hour (as a class 1, most jobs pay $12, highest paying hourly job is $18 and that is an engineer tech)
Days it takes to get FMLA: Federal guidelines
Dayes it takes to get vacation time and sick time: A year holidays paid though
Time it takes to get insurance: 3 months after hire, insurance is $25 a week for family dental and vision are extra
Time it takes to get 401k: Depends on the time of the year, will match up to 50 cents of 6%
Union: no

Aristech Acrylics
Florence, KY
Pay: $17 an hour for "Tier 2" $19 for "Tier 1" all employees will be merged into Tier 1 by October. $1 more on the hour for leads (which I am)
Time it takes to get insurance: Instant, insurance has a free option, pay extra for vision and dental
Days it takes to get FMLA: Company chooses not to follow federal guideline, get it from day 1
Days it takes to get vacation and sick time: Day 1, one week vacation, one week sick leave. Even has paid vacation on bull**** holidays like Veterans Day and MLK Day
Time it takes to get 401k: Instant, company automatically contributes the value of 3% of your earnings, not taking it out of your earnings, but the percentage out of their pockets. Matches $1 up to 6%.
Union: Yes

So the choice is clear.
 
US Conservative said:
The overwhelming majority goes to the democrat party. Lets not pretend its even close. You wouldn't want to paint a false picture, would you?
Click to expand...

My intent was never to paint a false picture. Just stated what happens in my state.
 
Being a member of both the cement masons union and the freemasons has been very beneficial to me.
 
They never really were. They were just a cheat rather than do the real work the right way. Allowed a whole lot of crooks to run a whole lot of rackets. Imagine if, instead of unions we had state law to protect workers.
 
ocean515 said:
I think the greatest complaint in private industry is the impact they have had on putting companies out of business, or at least in causing them to take measures to try and maintain the profitability demanded by investors.

In the public arena, they are a virus the public needs to address in some meaningful manner.
Click to expand...

The people have a responsibility to force change in the market when things are unjust, not the government. The market has more power than the government has when it comes to this, so it is up to them to shape a safe and prosperous workplace. If companies are unwilling to conform to the wishes of the market, it is there fault when they go out of business. I do not support compulsory membership though, because that is when the rights of the individual is infringed upon.
 
iacardsfan said:
The people have a responsibility to force change in the market when things are unjust, not the government. The market has more power than the government has when it comes to this, so it is up to them to shape a safe and prosperous workplace. If companies are unwilling to conform to the wishes of the market, it is there fault when they go out of business. I do not support compulsory membership though, because that is when the rights of the individual is infringed upon.
Click to expand...

As noted by the former President of UAW, private sector unions have not taken the economic health of the employer into account. GM and Chrysler are great examples of this disconnect. The important point is that the labor unions in the private sector can either be partners in a companies efforts, or they can make their membership unemployed.

This is not the case in the public sector.
 
ocean515 said:
As noted by the former President of UAW, private sector unions have not taken the economic health of the employer into account. GM and Chrysler are great examples of this disconnect. The important point is that the labor unions in the private sector can either be partners in a companies efforts, or they can make their membership unemployed.

This is not the case in the public sector.
Click to expand...

Which is why public sector unions are even worse-no need to stay solvent or be anything close to realistic.
 
Paleocon said:
If we lived in a distributist state, trade unions could be abolished as inducive of class struggle. But since we live in a capitalist system, they are necessary for the protection of labor rights.
Click to expand...


A distributist state ?

You mean a Centrally planned demand economy where each is given according to his needs ?

Where oligarchs are the arbiter of equity and fairness ?

That's been tried with expected results over and over and over.

The only question I have is why on earth would anyone still support such a system ?
 
Fenton said:
A distributist state ?

You mean a Centrally planned demand economy where each is given according to his needs ?

Where oligarchs are the arbiter of equity and fairness ?

That's been tried with expected results over and over and over.

The only question I have is why on earth would anyone still support such a system ?
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Its always amusing watching marxists explain how the revolution-intended to eliminate poverty-never seemed to get there.

They are slow learners.
 
Collective bargaining is still needed I believe. Unions however, need a reformation.
 
Fenton said:
A distributist state ?

You mean a Centrally planned demand economy where each is given according to his needs ?

Where oligarchs are the arbiter of equity and fairness ?

That's been tried with expected results over and over and over.

The only question I have is why on earth would anyone still support such a system ?
Click to expand...

No. I don't know if that's what he means but that's not what distributism is in the slightest.

No

Really? Actually when it was implemented there was a more equitable economy.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Many people often claim that labor and trade unions are no longer needed, because "safety regulations, fair wages, days off, 8 hour work day, and child labor" have already been won. They claim because of this labor, and trade unions are no longer needed. My question is: Are Labor and Trade Unions Still Necessary in Our Economy?
Click to expand...

Unions are, and always will be, necessary to keep us from regressing. Any notion that we wouldn't allow that to happen is naive.

Having said that, unions need to get over themselves and act like they actually are for their members, and not just another morphed abomination of big business itself.
 
JohnWOlin said:
I see a bunch of people talking about the usefulness of unions but none of them are actually in one. Let me give you some quick facts about my two jobs:

Green Tokai
Maysville, KY
Pay: $14.60 an hour (as a class 1, most jobs pay $12, highest paying hourly job is $18 and that is an engineer tech)
Days it takes to get FMLA: Federal guidelines
Dayes it takes to get vacation time and sick time: A year holidays paid though
Time it takes to get insurance: 3 months after hire, insurance is $25 a week for family dental and vision are extra
Time it takes to get 401k: Depends on the time of the year, will match up to 50 cents of 6%
Union: no

Aristech Acrylics
Florence, KY
Pay: $17 an hour for "Tier 2" $19 for "Tier 1" all employees will be merged into Tier 1 by October. $1 more on the hour for leads (which I am)
Time it takes to get insurance: Instant, insurance has a free option, pay extra for vision and dental
Days it takes to get FMLA: Company chooses not to follow federal guideline, get it from day 1
Days it takes to get vacation and sick time: Day 1, one week vacation, one week sick leave. Even has paid vacation on bull**** holidays like Veterans Day and MLK Day
Time it takes to get 401k: Instant, company automatically contributes the value of 3% of your earnings, not taking it out of your earnings, but the percentage out of their pockets. Matches $1 up to 6%.
Union: Yes

So the choice is clear.
Click to expand...
..and when the competition between the two companies comes down to one of them surviving and one of them closing it's doors, it will be the non-union shop that stays open and the union shop that closes.

My issue with unions is that too often they fail to recognize that what is best for the company is normally best for the employee. The industry I work has seen substantial contraction over the last decade or so and the survivors (like us) have generally been the non-union shops.
 
Paleocon said:
If we lived in a distributist state, trade unions could be abolished as inducive of class struggle. But since we live in a capitalist system, they are necessary for the protection of labor rights.
Click to expand...

Very well said. Yes, I agree that in our system needs to have a front line of defense against abuses and that has always been labor's strong suit. Another thing that is important, is that American labor provides a stadard for thde are prevailg wage and benefits packages that non union labor must compete with. As the force of labor has dropeed in this coutnry however, we have also seen the accompanying stagnation of real wages adn teh pension system is becoming a thing of the past with health benefits a close second.
 
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