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Should occupancy rates/lock-up quotas for private prisons be illegal?

Should occupancy rates/lock-up quotas for private prisons be illegal?

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jamesrage

jamesrage

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Should occupancy rates for private prisons be illegal?

Private purchasing of prisons locks in occupancy rates
WASHINGTON – At a time when states are struggling to reduce bloated prison populations and tight budgets, a private prison management company is offering to buy prisons in exchange for various considerations, including a controversial guarantee that the governments maintain a 90% occupancy rate for at least 20 years.
"Lockup Quotas," "Low-crime Taxes," and the For-Profit Prison Industry | Donald Cohen
6 Shocking Revelations About How Private Prisons Make Their Money | Alternet
States Guarantee High Prison Populations for Private Prison Industry
“Lockup quotas� guarantee profits for the U.S. private prison industry | In the Public Interest




I believe this **** should be illegal. Criminals should be locked up because they deserve it, not because there is some financial incentive for the state or private prisons.
 
jamesrage said:
Should occupancy rates for private prisons be illegal?

Private purchasing of prisons locks in occupancy rates
WASHINGTON – At a time when states are struggling to reduce bloated prison populations and tight budgets, a private prison management company is offering to buy prisons in exchange for various considerations, including a controversial guarantee that the governments maintain a 90% occupancy rate for at least 20 years.
"Lockup Quotas," "Low-crime Taxes," and the For-Profit Prison Industry | Donald Cohen
6 Shocking Revelations About How Private Prisons Make Their Money | Alternet
States Guarantee High Prison Populations for Private Prison Industry
“Lockup quotas� guarantee profits for the U.S. private prison industry | In the Public Interest




I believe this **** should be illegal. Criminals should be locked up because they deserve it, not because there is some financial incentive for the state or private prisons.
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****...yes. This is right up there with businesses being able to carry out eminent domain and asset forfeiture in the chapter titled "Hilariously horrible policies that exist despite everyone knowing they're pure evil."

Edit: on second thought, for-profit prisons are probably quite a bit worse.
 
Private prisons shouldn't exist period.
 
jamesrage said:
I believe this **** should be illegal. Criminals should be locked up because they deserve it, not because there is some financial incentive for the state or private prisons.
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Your Star said:
Private prisons shouldn't exist period.
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I completely agree with both of you on this. Private prisons are an absolutely terrible idea.
 
jamesrage said:
Should occupancy rates for private prisons be illegal?

Private purchasing of prisons locks in occupancy rates
WASHINGTON – At a time when states are struggling to reduce bloated prison populations and tight budgets, a private prison management company is offering to buy prisons in exchange for various considerations, including a controversial guarantee that the governments maintain a 90% occupancy rate for at least 20 years.
"Lockup Quotas," "Low-crime Taxes," and the For-Profit Prison Industry | Donald Cohen
6 Shocking Revelations About How Private Prisons Make Their Money | Alternet
States Guarantee High Prison Populations for Private Prison Industry
“Lockup quotas� guarantee profits for the U.S. private prison industry | In the Public Interest




I believe this **** should be illegal. Criminals should be locked up because they deserve it, not because there is some financial incentive for the state or private prisons.
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Private prisons should be illegal.
 
jamesrage said:
I believe this **** should be illegal. Criminals should be locked up because they deserve it, not because there is some financial incentive for the state or private prisons.
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I agree with this 100%. Private for-profit prisons should not exist at all.

But, if we do have them, at the very least they should be a flat-rate. The corporation should be paid $x whether they have 2,000 "customers" or 2. The perverse incentive to lock people up unnecessarily is far too great to base payment on simple head count.
 
radcen said:
I agree with this 100%. Private for-profit prisons should not exist at all.

But, if we do have them, at the very least they should be a flat-rate. The corporation should be paid $x whether they have 2,000 "customers" or 2. The perverse incentive to lock people up unnecessarily is far too great to base payment on simple head count.
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Wouldn't that motivate them to not lock up people who might deserve prison time and possibly cut corners resulting in less safe or less escape-proof prisons?
 
i'm not comfortable with privatizing the prison system. it's too much of a conflict of interest, especially in the country that locks up more people than any other nation.

Screen-Shot-2012-10-15-at-10.25.43-AM.jpg
 
jamesrage said:
Wouldn't that motivate them to not lock up people who might deserve prison time and possibly cut corners resulting in less safe or less escape-proof prisons?
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They'd get what they're sent, and keep them for as long as told. They wouldn't, however, be wanting to keep them any longer than necessary, so they wouldn't be lobbying lawmakers for more laws and harsher sentences.
 
radcen said:
They'd get what they're sent, and keep them for as long as told. They wouldn't, however, be wanting to keep them any longer than necessary, so they wouldn't be lobbying lawmakers for more laws and harsher sentences.
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You're right, they'd be lobbying for *lighter* sentences instead. There's just no good that can come out of our lawmakers being directly bought off in this way.
 
chromium said:
You're right, they'd be lobbying for *lighter* sentences instead. There's just no good that can come out of our lawmakers being directly bought off in this way.
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Possibly, but the chances of that going anywhere is pretty slim. The public in general still likes "tough on crime" politicians.
 
radcen said:
They'd get what they're sent, and keep them for as long as told.
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The nature of any business is to try to make as much money as possible. This means they will cut corners somewhere thus making prisons less safe and less secure.

They wouldn't, however, be wanting to keep them any longer than necessary, so they wouldn't be lobbying lawmakers for more laws and harsher sentences.
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Wouldn't they just lobby for earlier releases of potentially dangerous criminals?
 
jamesrage said:
The nature of any business is to try to make as much money as possible. This means they will cut corners somewhere thus making prisons less safe and less secure.

Wouldn't they just lobby for earlier releases of potentially dangerous criminals?
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I addressed that possibility in post #12. They might, but that would be harder to get past the populace.
 
radcen said:
I addressed that possibility in post #12. They might, but that would be harder to get past the populace.
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What you say might have some merit.But due to the the crap our elected officials gotten away with enacting it is not really that hard for them to get something past the populace. Most of the populace who would rather be obsessed with sports or watch some retarded reality show than pay attention to what their elected officials are doing. If it was hard to get things past the populace this thread and probably most other threads would not exist.
 
When DP'ers can agree on any political issue, it is something to take note of.

California got something going with a prison scale-down referendum that enjoys bipartisan support. Other states should consider doing something similar. Hell, finally getting a handle on the prison-industrial complex might be the perfect way to show that a Republican Congress can work with a Democratic president.
 
A private business must make money and has no reason to enter into risky contracts. The quota is satisfied by transfers from state facilities and not extra convictions.
 
Cardinal said:
****...yes. This is right up there with businesses being able to carry out eminent domain and asset forfeiture in the chapter titled "Hilariously horrible policies that exist despite everyone knowing they're pure evil."

Edit: on second thought, for-profit prisons are probably quite a bit worse.
Click to expand...

Talk about perverse incentives...
 
StillBallin75 said:
Talk about perverse incentives...
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But there is no incentive. The state facilities have no profit worries and can simply operate at less than capacity, allowing private contracts to be satisfied.
 
ecofarm said:
A private business must make money and has no reason to enter into risky contracts. The quota is satisfied by transfers from state facilities and not extra convictions.
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Aren't convicts transferred from state facilities when a private prison prison takes over?
 
jamesrage said:
Aren't convicts transferred from state facilities when a private prison prison takes over?
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State facilities continue to exist and the quota is satisfied by a transfer of inmates. Would you agree to build and staff a private prison when the state might only provide a handful of customers? The state could build a new facility and your entire investment is lost.

The quota in no way affects arrests or convictions. There are plenty of state facilities from which to satisfy the contract. If the state operates at less than capacity, that's the state's loss. As the state does not have a profit motive, this is the most reasonable way to provide security for the investment required.
 
ecofarm said:
State facilities continue to exist and the quota is satisfied by a transfer of inmates. Would you agree to build and staff a private prison when the state might only provide a handful of customers? The state could build a new facility and your entire investment is lost.
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I oppose the idea of outsourcing prisons to private companies.There are certain functions that should only be the duty of the government and corrections is one of those.

The quota in no way affects arrests or convictions. There are plenty of state facilities from which to satisfy the contract. If the state operates at less than capacity, that's the state's loss. As the state does not have a profit motive, this is the most reasonable way to provide security for the investment required.
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These contracts with lock up quotas have penalties built in if states do not meet the minimum occupancy rate.So the state does have a financial incentive to make sure the private prisons are full.
 
jamesrage said:
I oppose the idea of outsourcing prisons to private companies.There are certain functions that should only be the duty of the government and corrections is one of those.
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A reasonable position. I disagree. I believe things done by the government are more efficiently accomplished in the free market, with the exception of a military and other issues directly of national security concern.

These contracts with lock up quotas have penalties built in if states do not meet the minimum occupancy rate.So the state does have a financial incentive to make sure the private prisons are full.
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The state satisfies the quota by transferring inmates from state institutions and operating, itself, at less than capacity.

Surely you understand that millions of dollars in investment needs to have some kind of security. The quota/transfer system allows the state to provide that investment security without creating an incentive for arrests and convictions.
 
Absolutely illegal, unless to fulfill their "quotas" the private prison admins, lobbyists, and stockholders are locked up
 
ecofarm said:
A reasonable position. I disagree. I believe things done by the government are more efficiently accomplished in the free market, with the exception of a military and other issues directly of national security concern.



The state satisfies the quota by transferring inmates from state institutions and operating, itself, at less than capacity.

Surely you understand that millions of dollars in investment needs to have some kind of security. The quota/transfer system allows the state to provide that investment security without creating an incentive for arrests and convictions.
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If you think there's no incentive for the for profit prison lobby to pursue outrageous laws and sentences, you don't understand corporations at all. They will push for those laws *in addition to* demanding that state run prisons transfer their inmates. They'll charge obscene fees for inmate phone calls or visitors, enraging their loved ones whose only crime was knowing them.

The prison lobby was all over racial profiling in arizona and i'm frankly unable to look up other examples. Too sickened by the idea of any "justice system", let alone ours, being whored out to and at the mercy of profit margin. What do you think will happen when prisons are entirely privatized? We're already at the point of having more prisoners than stalin's gulag.
 
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