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Should employing illegal immigrants result in a jail sentence?

Should employing illegal immigrants result in a jail sentence?


  • Total voters
    12
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...s-result-jail-sentence-10.html#post1063631355
The two weeks that most of the employees worked that turned out to be illegal..................When the penalty averaged $1500 per worker, yeah, I'd say the fines were pretty stiff.


http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...s-result-jail-sentence-10.html#post1063632374
"What part of most only work two weeks or so is unclear?"

We went through a three year labor audit, and that's when it came to light that they were illegal. We didn't get 'caught' or raided. The employees worked for a couple of weeks and left of their own volition.

You have an interesting way of interpreting things....
 
We went through a three year labor audit, and that's when it came to light that they were illegal. We didn't get 'caught' or raided. The employees worked for a couple of weeks and left of their own volition.

You have an interesting way of interpreting things....
So you are saying that your company found out, turned itself in and that is how your company got the $1,500 fine per illegal employee?
 
So you are saying that your company found out, turned itself in and that is how your company got the $1,500 fine per illegal employee?

No, I didn't say that.

A three year labor audit isn't usually what a company voluntarily inflicts on themselves. The employees passed the federally required checks at that time, before e-verify. The Feds ran the employees through their system and found them to be illegal.

It cost us $1500 per illegal, plus penalties.
 
If employers actually paid.a living wage, there would be no.need for.welfare...

As long as folks.are making 7.25 an hour there will be massive amounts of people on welfare, the cost of living goes up and wages stagnate, figure it out genius..

As long as the huge income inequality gap exists there will be huge amounts of folks signing up for welfare, and food stamps too, this may come as.a shock to you but poor people have to eat too...

They do pay a living wage, they don't pay a "life style" wage.

The so called "living wage" is a myth. If you raise the rates of those workers, cost will have to rise. In less than 6 months, the new wage would have no more buying power than current minimum wage. The only thing such a thing would accomplish is reduce the buying power of those who didn't get a raise.

As long as there is a huge education and skills gap, there will be a huge wage gap. Uneducated, unskilled workers are just to plentiful to justify even minimum wage today.
 
If employers couldn't hire illegals then they would have to make the wage attractive enough to hire Americans.Contrary to popular belief many people on welfare work. If we were to be idiotic enough to listen to those whose lips are firmly planted on the cocks of businesses by getting rid of minimum wage there would still have people on welfare.

Sure there would, because a lot of uneducated, unskilled and lazy people exist in the US.

Some oil field work pays very well, but guess what, they have problems filling positions because the labor is out in the heat and the cold and requires physical labor. The other problem they have, same as Walmart and many other companies, is finding people who can pass the drug test.
 
If the illegal immigration problem is as dire as some here say it is, should employers of those illegals be jailed?

Not sure why you should blame employers for something that they have no ability to determine. We don't have a national identity card or any proof of citizen card and apparently it would be discriminatory to ask questions regarding national origin.
 
Sure there would, because a lot of uneducated, unskilled and lazy people exist in the US.

Some oil field work pays very well, but guess what, they have problems filling positions because the labor is out in the heat and the cold and requires physical labor. The other problem they have, same as Walmart and many other companies, is finding people who can pass the drug test.

Apparently they are still not paying enough.Logic says that if the money and benefits you are paying no is not filling up your roster then y need to up the pay and benefits.
 
Not sure why you should blame employers for something that they have no ability to determine. We don't have a national identity card or any proof of citizen card and apparently it would be discriminatory to ask questions regarding national origin.

There is e-verify.They can check the dmv records and check to make sure the SS card number matches the applicant. Many employers do not take the applicant's word that the applicant is legal and qualified. They run background checks on potential employees.
 
I voted YES.

A fine would be considered a minor inconvenience to some companies. A jail sentence is a wake-up call.
 
And why should they, but most important, there is no requirement to prove anyone is illegal or not, nor does anyone have the legal authority to prove anyone is illegal or not. So to think big daddy government is going raid homes to see if you have an illegal nanny is absurd.

Sure there is. Look up I-9 form.
 
I would think a very stiff fine and a stern warning would suffice. Jail or prison time? nah.
 
Sure there would, because a lot of uneducated, unskilled and lazy people exist in the US.

Some oil field work pays very well, but guess what, they have problems filling positions because the labor is out in the heat and the cold and requires physical labor. The other problem they have, same as Walmart and many other companies, is finding people who can pass the drug test.

Drug Test? Do we really care if the guy picking strawberries is roasted while he's picking?
 
When you pay more in fines and penalties than you did in actual wages to the person, then I'd define that as 'stiff'.

Not necessarily. The "stiffness" of a penalty would be defined according to the production of the worker. If the employer is ultimately remaining profitable even after paying penalties, then the fine is not stiff enough.
 
I guess this is meant to be less of a real discussion than it is a liberal circle jerk but there's only so much any employer can really do to ensure their employees are here legally.
 
Read my post #39, it's very educational, you'll enjoy it.
Especially the part about verifying the documents appear genuine. Oh and the list of documents a person MUST have to be employed by someone. That list of documents an person here illegally will not have.

Yup very educational.
 
Especially the part about verifying the documents appear genuine. Oh and the list of documents a person MUST have to be employed by someone. That list of documents an person here illegally will not have.

Yup very educational.

First you said an employer has to PROVE an employee is legal and you pointed to the I-9 form

There is nothing in the I-9 or any law or requirement for an employer to have to prove anything. I pointed that out in my post #39

Then you come back with the employer has to verifying the documents appear genuine. That in no way is proof of anything nor is it proof the person is legal or illegal.

Now let me again show you what those documents are, I'll list them for you so you don't have to read below the actual wording of from the I-9 form

A person has to provide the following:

Their full name
Their address
The date of birth

Now tell me where are their any documents to review. The person writes in his name, address and date of birth on the form. What is there to look at?

Last they have to provide their 9-digit Social Security number. Providing your Social Security number is voluntary.

Again there is nothing to look at and nothing that an employer has to PROVE anything.

I would suggest you read up on exactly what is required of the employer you work for. And not make such ignorant statements that the employer is liable to PROVE anything.

Section 1. Employee Information and Attestation
Newly hired employees must complete and sign Section 1 of Form I-9 no later than the first day of employment

Section 1 should never be completed before the employee has accepted a job offer.
Provide the following information to complete Section 1:

Name:
Provide your full legal last name, first name, and middle initial. Your last name is your family name or surname. If you have two last names or a hyphenated last name, include both names in the last name field. Your first name is your given name. Your middle initial is the first letter of your second given name, or the first letter of your middle name, if any.

Address:
Provide the address where you currently live, including Street Number and Name, Apartment Number (if applicable), City, State, and Zip Code. Do not provide a post office box address (P.O. Box). Only border commuters from Canada or Mexico may use an international address in this field.

Date of Birth:
Provide your date of birth in the mm/dd/yyyy format. For example, January 23, 1950, should be written as 01/23/1950.

U.S. Social Security Number:
Provide your 9-digit Social Security number. Providing your Social Security number is voluntary. However, if your employer participates in E-Verify, you must provide your Social Security number

E-mail Address and Telephone Number (Optional):
You may provide your e-mail address and telephone number. Department of Homeland Security

The truth is you want employers to do what our lame government fails to do. And if you think for a second a home or small business is not going to hire a nanny, housekeeper, house sitter, landscaper, cook, motel worker, construction worker etc etc etc you are naive at best. You think government is going to raid every home in the US to see if they have an illegal working when Obama is letting them walk across and they you have sanctuary cities and sanctuary churches and homes. Hell they stand on a corner in every city waiting to be picked up for day labor.

If you think an I-9 is going to keep killers, thieves, terrorist, rapist, and those that just cross our border looking for an Obama agent to give them amnesty, naive again.

So in closing your I-9 form is useless and an employer has to PROVE nothing. Hell illegals get drivers licenses these days, where is the proof they have to show they are legal?
 
I guess this is meant to be less of a real discussion than it is a liberal circle jerk but there's only so much any employer can really do to ensure their employees are here legally.

There is only so much an employer can do to ensure their employees are legal. There is NOTHING they can do. Period. Hell illegals go to the local DMV and get driver's licenses for christ sake, and their are salutary cities etc harboring illegals, then you have government waiting for them to come across the Rio Grand so we can feed, house, cloth and provide the best of medical care. An I-9 is useless and worse yet a joke.
 
Should employing illegal immigrants result in a jail sentence?

Only if America wants to get serious about getting rid of illegals.

It's not rocket-surgery.

You want to get rid of mice? Stop leaving food around for them to eat.

Same principle.
 
Only if America wants to get serious about getting rid of illegals.

It's not rocket-surgery.

You want to get rid of mice? Stop leaving food around for them to eat.

Same principle.

And how do you propose employers do that?

How many million employers are small business or homeowners that employ a nanny, motel workers, cooks, dish washers, gardeners, housekeepers, house framers, block layers, any home construction, etc etc etc.

Further how many illegals are self employed as gardeners, tree primers, contractors, hell they are in most every service industry?

How many illegals just come across the border to be fed, housed, clothed, and get the best medical care?

Then you go all those illegals that don't come for a job, they would be killers, rapist, drug runners, druggies, thieves, etc etc.

Then you have sanctuary cities, sanctuary churches and homes and their own that harbor illegals.

How many illegals work for Cash? Who stand at a street corner in every city waiting to be picked up as day labor.

Hell illegals get drivers license's for christ sake.
 
The question was posed.

My answer was, if America really wanted to rid the country of illegals, they have to remove the incentive.

Obviously, all this talk about getting rid of illegals is just lip service. If America was serious about it, well, see above. Start locking up the people for feeding the bears and the bears will stay out of the subdivision. Same with illegals.

I am not saying, one way or the other, that we should or should not lock up these employers. I am simply saying that if we really wanted them gone, that is what we would have do do.
 
The question was posed.

My answer was, if America really wanted to rid the country of illegals, they have to remove the incentive.

Obviously, all this talk about getting rid of illegals is just lip service. If America was serious about it, well, see above. Start locking up the people for feeding the bears and the bears will stay out of the subdivision. Same with illegals.

I am not saying, one way or the other, that we should or should not lock up these employers. I am simply saying that if we really wanted them gone, that is what we would have do do.

I think the employers are the cause but I still disagree with locking them up. The prisons are too full. Just progressively tax them on an exponential scale.
 
I think the employers are the cause but I still disagree with locking them up. The prisons are too full. Just progressively tax them on an exponential scale.

It couldn't hurt. But I kinda doubt they are going to come forward and admit to hiring illegals and pay for their "get out of jail free," card voluntarily.

Two years of locking up the people who entice and support illegal aliens might get their attention. I'm sure only a few handfuls of employers would have to be locked up for the word to spread around that the government is finally serious.

But we can talk about it all day. Nothing is going to get done. It's political lip service used to show where a politician stands and how he relates to particular individuals. After the elections, it's business as usual. Apparently, America actually needs illegal aliens.
 
It couldn't hurt. But I kinda doubt they are going to come forward and admit to hiring illegals and pay for their "get out of jail free," card voluntarily.

Two years of locking up the people who entice and support illegal aliens might get their attention. I'm sure only a few handfuls of employers would have to be locked up for the word to spread around that the government is finally serious.

But we can talk about it all day. Nothing is going to get done. It's political lip service used to show where a politician stands and how he relates to particular individuals. After the elections, it's business as usual. Apparently, America actually needs illegal aliens.

There are many topics that the two sides will argue over but neither will really try to do anything about.
 
Just increase the fine each time they're caught, at some point the company will be losing year's worth of profits for hiring illegal immigrants.

Jail time is stupid in this case, that just wastes our money. Instead, if we fine them to the point where their company is destroyed after multiple offenses the govt. not only kills an unethical business but it also saves a lot of resource spending on jails.
Like but ..
I'd like to see "illegal", the situation , done away with...as well as the border patrols and fences .. In other words, an open border .. and no old fashioned jails either ...work camps... as necessary ..
 
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