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Should employing illegal immigrants result in a jail sentence?

Should employing illegal immigrants result in a jail sentence?

  • Total voters
    12
Make a three strike rule. First strike you get a decent fine, second strike a huge fine and a felony. Third step is jail.
 
Grand Mal said:
If the illegal immigration problem is as dire as some here say it is, should employers of those illegals be jailed?
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No. The politicians that pass laws to give handouts so people don't want to work at the jobs the illegals take should be jailed. Many illegals work at jobs you can't get Americans to take because they would rather live on welfare.

It only becomes a problem when those same politicians decide to "humanely" give handouts to the illegals as well.
 
Grand Mal said:
If the illegal immigration problem is as dire as some here say it is, should employers of those illegals be jailed?
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Under some circumstances. For instance, several times being caught and cited for it maybe should result in jail time, like any other crime.
 
jamesrage said:
How is what I said hyperbole? You are telling me that employer who deliberately hires illegals because its cheaper to hire them instead of Americans is somehow going to be hurt by measly fines?
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They don't care if it was deliberate or accidental. They don't care if you were given well done false papers, or if you used e-verify and got an 'authorized' response. If they can prove the person was illegal, you're paying fines no matter what if it was intentional or accidental.

I never said they walked around carrying a sign or of one nationality or race.
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No you didn't. What I was indicating was that with good docs, you can't tell the difference between legal and illegal. They don't wear a label.

If the employer does all the checks like background checks, E-verify and SS# check and has documented that they did all those checks then I do not support fining or jailing the employer.Although if it happens on more than one occasion then it is suspicious.
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It's nice that you don't support that, but the feds don't care. They want they penalties. Job validation.


How were the penalties stiff?

Penalties for Employers Hiring Illegal Immigrants | LegalMatch Law Library
What Are the Penalties For Hiring An Illegal Immigrant?

For first offenders, there is a $250-$2,000 fine per illegal employee.

For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.

For employers who have been convicted of hiring illegal immigrants more than twice, the fine can range from $3000-$10,000 per employee. If the employer demonstrates a pervasive pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants, he or she could face additional fines, and up to six months in jail.
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When you pay more in fines and penalties than you did in actual wages to the person, then I'd define that as 'stiff'.
 
GottaGo said:
When you pay more in fines and penalties than you did in actual wages to the person, then I'd define that as 'stiff'.
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So you were paying employees $250 -$5,000 a year? No wonder immigration authorities were called on you.
 
Absolutely, but not as a first shot. Like most criminal and civil penalties it should escalate to jail time AND fine on reoccurrence. I think first time fines should be higher though. The equivalent of one year's salary for the position held by the illegal, for each illegal found. That's first offense. Second, double that. Third, triple that. Fourth, lose your business license and go to jail.
 
Fining companies with huge fines might work for companies like GE, but small and mid size companies can't hand that.

I see some suggest shutting down businesses. That's a bit extreme isn't it?

Shutting down businesses works great as long as your job isn't impacted or your employers aren't financially hit...directly or indirectly. That type of thinking is sort of like the old saying, "biting your own nose off to spite your face".

It's taken a half dozen years to see employment begin to reach pre 2008 levels. Now people want to shut businesses down?

Closing down one single major construction company can cause a domino effect on a lot of related businesses, like lumber companies, tool companies, concrete companies, trucking companies, electrical supply, plumbing supply companies...on and on an on. The domino effect can happen with a lot of businesses.

But this is where it's really gonna hurt...

The people hurt most in the end...is YOU at the grocery stores and meat markets! Produce growers (fruits, vegetables, etc) and meat processing companies will be shutdown. If citizens wanted to compete for jobs with growers and meat plants...they would have already done it.
 
Yup, enforcing the laws always hurts someone. But shutting down one construction company will only lead to it being replaced in the market.
 
clownboy said:
Absolutely, but not as a first shot. Like most criminal and civil penalties it should escalate to jail time AND fine on reoccurrence. I think first time fines should be higher though. The equivalent of one year's salary for the position held by the illegal, for each illegal found. That's first offense. Second, double that. Third, triple that. Fourth, lose your business license and go to jail.
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The only probably with that is the fact they do not do regular raids on companies who hire illegals.
 
jamesrage said:
So you were paying employees $250 -$5,000 a year? No wonder immigration authorities were called on you.
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I'm glad that you think you know our employment practices.

When employees come and go at the entry level, some lasting a week or two, some last a month or so, the chances of them making wages equal to the penalty are pretty low.

Or, perhaps, you believe in paying entry level employees $2500 a week?

Those who are illegal, or have garnishments and or child support orders, seem to work a couple of weeks and then disappear. I would guess in the hopes of eluding getting tagged for such.

You would learn these things if you dealt with employees at entry level.
 
GottaGo said:
I'm glad that you think you know our employment practices.

When employees come and go at the entry level, some lasting a week or two, some last a month or so, the chances of them making wages equal to the penalty are pretty low.

Or, perhaps, you believe in paying entry level employees $2500 a week?
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Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. That comes out to 13920 a year working full time. There is no way a fine of $250 -$5,000 per illegal employee comes out more than the wage being paid.
 
clownboy said:
Yup, enforcing the laws always hurts someone. But shutting down one construction company will only lead to it being replaced in the market.
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One? Damn, where do you live. It would pretty much shut them all down.

On the Plus side, Hillsboro, OR wouldn't be "Little Mexico" anymore and you might find someone in the park that actually speaks english afterwards.
 
jamesrage said:
Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. That comes out to 13920 a year working full time. There is no way a fine of $250 -$5,000 per illegal employee comes out more than the wage being paid.
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You know, if you did away with the stupidity of minimum wage and kicked people off welfare, you might actually be able to get Americans to take the jobs illegals currently fill for a reasonable salary.
 
Summerwind said:
They should also have their businesses closed and no right to re-open a biz for a period of time. Otherwise they just keep doing it again and again and the fines are just acceptable losses.
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Why should corporations be closed when all others can pass laws giving benefits and protections? Either all should be punished servery or none.

Congress itself has passed numerous provisions that give benefits to illegal aliens...how can Congress then pass harsh laws against employers?
 
1750Texan said:
Why should corporations be closed when all others can pass laws giving benefits and protections? Either all should be punished servery or none.

Congress itself has passed numerous provisions that give benefits to illegal aliens...how can Congress then pass harsh laws against employers?
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Apparently you are unaware of the difference in treatment of illegals rounded up at say a Tyson Chicken and how the owners, managers, and executives are treated when illegals are rounded up at their factories. Get educated and it will all make sense.
 
1 st offense- No jail time, BUT they lose their business license for 6 months...

2nd offense, automatic 6 months in jail- NO EXCEPTIONS, LOSE BUSINESS.FOR 1 year so your down and out for a year and a half, so your business.is pretty much down the crapper for a very long time..
 
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DVSentinel said:
You know, if you did away with the stupidity of minimum wage and kicked people off welfare, you might actually be able to get Americans to take the jobs illegals currently fill for a reasonable salary.
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If employers actually paid.a living wage, there would be no.need for.welfare...

As long as folks.are making 7.25 an hour there will be massive amounts of people on welfare, the cost of living goes up and wages stagnate, figure it out genius..

As long as the huge income inequality gap exists there will be huge amounts of folks signing up for welfare, and food stamps too, this may come as.a shock to you but poor people have to eat too...
 
DVSentinel said:
You know, if you did away with the stupidity of minimum wage and kicked people off welfare, you might actually be able to get Americans to take the jobs illegals currently fill for a reasonable salary.
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If employers couldn't hire illegals then they would have to make the wage attractive enough to hire Americans.Contrary to popular belief many people on welfare work. If we were to be idiotic enough to listen to those whose lips are firmly planted on the cocks of businesses by getting rid of minimum wage there would still have people on welfare.
 
jamesrage said:
Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. That comes out to 13920 a year working full time. There is no way a fine of $250 -$5,000 per illegal employee comes out more than the wage being paid.
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Reading comprehension, it's a wonderful thing. ;)

We pay $8 for most starting employees. The two weeks that most of the employees worked that turned out to be illegal (via the audit) calculate out as such: $8 x40 hours (average) = $320 x 2 weeks = $640. When the penalty averaged $1500 per worker, yeah, I'd say the fines were pretty stiff.

I even did the math for you.
 
GottaGo said:
Reading comprehension, it's a wonderful thing. ;)

We pay $8 for most starting employees. The two weeks that most of the employees worked that turned out to be illegal (via the audit) calculate out as such: $8 x40 hours (average) = $320 x 2 weeks = $640. When the penalty averaged $1500 per worker, yeah, I'd say the fines were pretty stiff.

I even did the math for you.
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1,500 comes out to slightly more than a full months wages for a someone making 8$ an hour working full time. So 1,500 is not stiff,especially if a year would have passed by.
 
jamesrage said:
1,500 comes out to slightly more than a full months wages for a someone making 8$ an hour working full time. So 1,500 is not stiff,especially if a year would have passed by.
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What part of most only work two weeks or so is unclear?
 
GottaGo said:
What part of most only work two weeks or so is unclear?
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Luckily you all got caught only after a few weeks.Many other scum who hire illegals do not get caught so soon or even at all. $1,500 is still a measly fine for hiring illegals.
 
jamesrage said:
Luckily you all got caught only after a few weeks.Many other scum who hire illegals do not get caught so soon or even at all. $1,500 is still a measly fine for hiring illegals.
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We only got caught after a few weeks....???? Where the hell did you get that from?

You obviously haven't retained a single thing I've posted, so I'm not going to bother correcting your delusion.
 
GottaGo said:
We only got caught after a few weeks....???? Where the hell did you get that from?
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http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...s-result-jail-sentence-10.html#post1063631355
The two weeks that most of the employees worked that turned out to be illegal..................When the penalty averaged $1500 per worker, yeah, I'd say the fines were pretty stiff.


http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...s-result-jail-sentence-10.html#post1063632374
"What part of most only work two weeks or so is unclear?"
 
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