Do far right Conservatives/Libertarians lack empathy?

Hard Truth said:

I did not say that conservatives are greedy etc. I said that many of them think that the ability of some people to rise from poverty means that everyone can if they just tried hard enough and had the right attitude, as Originally Posted by lizzie "Many of us who lean toward the right, with regard to fiscal matters, used to be in their shoes. We know that it is a condition which one can overcome. I don't cut anyone any slack who has the ability to succeed, but has a ****ty attitude."

You failed to address any of the points I made about the challenges of helping the poor and the specific solutions that can address those challenges.

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Fenton said:

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I don't deny that there are some people who through no fault of there own, cannot pull themselves out of their situation.

But I don't think that number represents a majority of those who are dependent on Government. I don't even think that number scratches the surface of the number of people on Government assistance.......

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Hard Truth said:

What is that opinion based on? It isn't based on fact. That is a big problem, many conservative positions are based on prejudices and assumptions that are inaccurate.

"...the majority of families who ever turn to the welfare system for support will use it for relatively short periods of time, but the majority of families receiving assistance at any given point in time (i.e., the current caseload) will eventually receive welfare for relatively long periods of time. While these statements often seem contradictory, both are accurate and both are necessary to present a complete picture of time on welfare.

Behind these total time estimates, are very different patterns of welfare use. Some recipients use welfare for a short period of time, leave and never return; others use welfare intermittently, returning for short-term assistance when a job ends or when a family crisis occurs. Still others spend long periods of time continuously receiving welfare....

My research shows that, on average, women who ever use welfare will receive assistance for about six years and current recipients will receive assistance for about thirteen years. While accurate, taken by themselves, these figures are misleading because they give undo weight to the experiences of the extremely small number of recipients who spend very long periods of time (as much as 25 years) receiving welfare. These very long-term recipients do, in fact, exist, but they are the exception, not the rule. Thus, it is not accurate to describe the "typical" length of stay on welfare as 13 years.

....To address the needs of these families and help move them into the labor market, Utah has started to hire more skilled workers, generally professionals with a Master's Degree in Social Work or Counseling. These workers carry smaller than average caseloads and serve as a resource for other staff who are having difficulty moving particular recipients into the labor market. In some offices, substance abuse and mental health professionals are co-located in the welfare office. The goal for families who experience a broad range of barriers to employment continues to be employment. However, Utah's experience has taught them that while it is feasible to require every family to participate in activities that will eventually allow them to find unsubsidized employment, not every family can immediately sustain full-time or even part-time employment.

Utah's experience highlights several important points. Most importantly, it suggests that reforming the welfare system in many areas is likely to involve more than simply requiring families to work. When mandated to find work, some families are likely to find employment on their own and to do so more quickly than they would had they not been faced with such a mandate. Other families will find work with limited assistance. But some families are likely to need more assistance than welfare-to-work programs traditionally provide. Providing this assistance requires flexibility, a broad range of "allowable" activities and additional or redirected staff resources. Utah's experience suggests that welfare reform can be used as an opportunity to help families with a variety of needs and circumstances take the necessary steps to become self-sufficient and it is possible to incorporate the services these families need to leave the welfare rolls in a program that emphasizes employment.

Time on Welfare and Welfare Dependency: Testimony before the House Ways and Means Committee, Subcommittee on Human Resources

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Fenton said:

"The average unemployed person in America has been looking for work for 39.7 weeks, or more than nine months. That is the longest average unemployment spell since the Labor Department started keeping track in 1948: "

A record 92,594,000 Americans were not in the labor force in April as the labor force participation rate matched a 36-year low of 62.8 percent, according to data released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

In March, according to BLS's non-seasonally adjusted data, there were 91,630,000 Americans not in the labor force. In April, that increased by 964,000 people to an all-time record of 92,594,000. The previous record was 92,534,000, set in January of this year."

The Wrong Obama Just Got Fired - Wayne Allyn Root - Page full

" The American middle class, long the most affluent in the world, has lost that distinction.

While the wealthiest Americans are outpacing many of their global peers, a New York Times analysis shows that across the lower- and middle-income tiers, citizens of other advanced countries have received considerably larger raises over the last three decades."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?hp&_r=2

Food Stamp Recipients Outnumber Women Who Work Full-Time | CNS News

" People participating in the food stamp program outnumbered the women who worked full-time, year-round in the United States in 2012, according to data from the Department of Agriculture and the Census Bureau."

" The real median income of American men who work full-time, year-round peaked forty years ago in 1973, according to data published by the U.S. Census Bureau."



Black Labor Force Participation Rate Under Obama Hits Rock Bottom – Lowest Level Ever Recorded | The Gateway Pundit

"The drop in labor force participation was sharpest for African Americans, who saw a decline of 0.3 percentage points to 60.2 percent, the lowest rate since December of 1977. The rate for African American men fell 0.7 percentage points to 65.6 percent, the lowest on record. "

Covering for Obama, you know, purposely posting data that doesn't reflect the true economic condition of this Country is hardly compassionate.

You've chosen to paint Obama in a positive light rather than offer up a accurate and honest description of the struggles millions of Americans have had to go through since 2008.

That's NOT compassionate, thats' cold.

It would seem the left is far better off when struggling American families just keep their mouths shut.

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Hard Truth said:

I didn't say anything about Obama. That report precedes the Obama adminstration, but little has changed regarding the nature of welfare recipients since then. My point is that the rightwing opinion that most poor people are lazy and dependant and stay on welfare by choice is inaccurate.

Obama inherited a recession that was already about a year old when he came to office. I think he should have done more to deal with it, especially by more vigorously prosecuting the people that commited the fraud and theft that caused the recession and by creating more work opportunities with a CCC type program.

Much of our country's poverty problem existed for decades throughout both parties period's of political dominance. It should not be forgotten that many people benefit from that situation and it isn't the Democrat's core constiuency. It is the big businesses that exploit the worldwide surplus of cheap labor and profit from the prison industrial complex.

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Fenton said:

That is NOT how Conservatives think.

Thats how Liberals want everyone to believe. That Conservatives are selfish, ego centric disconnected individuals.

Our principles are being redefined by our opponents and then passed off as a objective analysis of Conservative core principles.

Unfortunately, as proven by the last two Presidential elections there are far too many intellectually lazy Americans who are ripe for this kind of partisan motivated misinterpretation.

The Liberals agenda is more about creating victims by spreading narratives that are meant to divide based on envy of all things.

The more emotionally poisoned the American populace is the better off the Democrats are in terms of winning elections and staying in power.

The problem for the Millions of America's who are gullible enough to buy into this toxic manipulation is things don't get better for them under Democrat rule.

Things don't become more " equitable, fairer ".

No, because any real improvement would threaten the lefts original agenda of creating as many victims as possible.

Any real movement towards equality would remove the dependency that the Democrat party needs to stay viable.

Its the basis of this STUPID Op.

Divide, set up a narrative based on misrepresentations NOT to improve the situation but to perpetuate toxic false narratives that are all centered around envy.

Thats how screwed up the left is.

They're more than willing to use one of the most destructive Human emotions to further their cause and the more pain, the more discontent there is the happier they are

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Hard Truth said:

That is one of the common flaws in conservative thinking: "I made it out of poverty, everyone else can also." It is wrong because statistically, most people do not make it out of poverty, especially outside the USA.

Making it out of poverty generally requires intelligence, ability to focus and do work, a supportive family or mentor and opportunity.

Not everyone is intelligent and many poor people are impaired by toxins and/or mental illness. (being very poor makes many people crazy, often for generations) The stress and instability often associated with poverty can interfere with developing or applying intelligence.

The ability to focus and do work is a skill that needs to be acquired (and may also be a genetic trait to some degree). In more successful families the ability to focus and do work is usually modeled and taught by parents without much conscious thought. That does not happen in many poor families, especially if they are struggling with substance abuse and mental illness.

Almost every person who has risen out of poverty had a supportive family member or mentor that helps teach good work habits and knows how, where and when to make an effort to get results.

Opportunities also matter. A young person given a legit part-time job or told about an internship or scholarship is more likely to be successful than one who is not given an opportunity or such guidance. There are only so many jobs and scholarships, so there is an element of luck involved.

With enough time, money and effort these elements for success could be provided by K-12 schools, but currently they are not, especially in the public schools serving the poor. If we want to really solve some of our society's problems we should work on putting less resources into the military, prisons, justice system, police etc and invest it in giving every young person the best education, guidance and opportunity. Unfortunately, too many people think that they benefit from the current system of class oppression for it to happen anytime soon. (ie.prison guards) Instead profiteers are exploiting the good intentions of ignorant people to sell them their school and prison privatization schemes as a solution.

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NoC_T said:

+1

Ace post, dude. The idea that millions of people are simply brainless, idle scroungers, is asinine. As if one's economic status in a system that stacks the odds in favour of a tiny minority, directly correlates with an individual's attitude and will. At best, a demonic drive for advancement could only minimise the probability of abject poverty, assuming nothing greater than mediocre ability. Millions of working-class folk bust their asses all their lives, but don't have a pot to piss in. The worst thing is that this perspective most often issues from people with comfortable, middle-class backgrounds. At least old money is honest enough not to pretend it's anything other than openly contemptuous. They don't dress it up in untenable paper arguments that defy reality.

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The Mark said:

Sure you can argue that if a person just "worked harder", they would be better off. But there aren't enough jobs out there to support that many "hard working people", or we would have more doing it.

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ecofarm said:

Everyone I know gets a raise or promotion after a year of good work. Anyone incapable of getting a raise, despite years of work, is either disabled and should have welfare support or is disabling themselves with drugs and/or alcohol.

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