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Should a retailer refuse to sell alcohol to a legal adult if a minor is present?

Should a retailer refuse to sell alcohol to a legal adult if a minor is present?

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radcen

radcen

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There's something of controversy going on here. A local retailer is refusing to sell alcohol to legal adults if a minor is present with them. Doesn't matter how old or young the minor is, and it doesn't matter if the minor is the adult's own kid.

The retailer is not breaking any laws by doing this, so that's not the issue... but should they? How would you react if a retailer refused to sell you alcohol just because you had your kid with you?

Please note that in this state it is perfectly legal for parents to serve their own minor children alcohol.
 
radcen said:
There's something of controversy going on here. A local retailer is refusing to sell alcohol to legal adults if a minor is present with them. Doesn't matter how old or young the minor is, and it doesn't matter if the minor is the adult's own kid.

The retailer is not breaking any laws by doing this, so that's not the issue... but should they? How would you react if a retailer refused to sell you alcohol just because you had your kid with you?

Please note that in this state it is perfectly legal for parents to serve their own minor children alcohol.
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No, he shouldn't be allowed to withhold legal goods purchased legally that he normally sells to others.
 
I personally believe that the drinking age should be 15 or 16 and not really enforced, so I personally feel a minor of that age should be able to buy it anyways. In this case I think it is ridiculous, what if the kid just went into the store with their parents to buy wine or something for dinner?
 
Carjosse said:
I personally believe that the drinking age should be 15 or 16 and not really enforced, so I personally feel a minor of that age should be able to buy it anyways. In this case I think it is ridiculous, what if the kid just went into the store with their parents to buy wine or something for dinner?
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That's actually happened to my aunt before. She had her 20 year old daughter with her and they carded both of them and wouldn't sell them a few bottles of wine because she was 20.

Crazy. I don't understand it at all.
 
in my state, spirit package sales can only be made at state-operated ABC (alcoholic beverage commission) stores

the rules prohibit anyone of the ages 18, 19, and 20 from entering the facility, even if accompanied by a 21+ legal buyer

my assumption is to prevent those ineligibles from being able to identify what eligible buyers could purchase on their behalf

could the same purpose be intended by the rules you are subject to at the store in question
 
I need more context here. Has there been an established pattern of straw purchases at this store? Or is this just some childish objection to letting kids see their parents drink?
 
roughdraft274 said:
That's actually happened to my aunt before. She had her 20 year old daughter with her and they carded both of them and wouldn't sell them a few bottles of wine because she was 20.

Crazy. I don't understand it at all.
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I'm guessing here, but I wonder if it's because they fear that selling to an adult with a minor present will end up the adult being the straw purchaser for the minor. Of course the failure of that thought is that when minors use straw purchasers, they don't enter the store with him, they stay outside in the car or even in the next parking lot over. Only "honest" people would actually have a minor with them.
 
Depends on circumstance.
 
justabubba said:
in my state, spirit package sales can only be made at state-operated ABC (alcoholic beverage commission) stores

the rules prohibit anyone of the ages 18, 19, and 20 from entering the facility, even if accompanied by a 21+ legal buyer

my assumption is to prevent those ineligibles from being able to identify what eligible buyers could purchase on their behalf

could the same purpose be intended by the rules you are subject to at the store in question
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My guess is that this is the reason, but according to news reports, the retailer in question isn't making any discernment regarding friends vs family members.
 
Summerwind said:
I'm guessing here, but I wonder if it's because they fear that selling to an adult with a minor present will end up the adult being the straw purchaser for the minor. Of course the failure of that thought is that when minors use straw purchasers, they don't enter the store with him, they stay outside in the car or even in the next parking lot over. Only "honest" people would actually have a minor with them.
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True. I admit to doing that when I was a teenager, and I never went in to the store, lol.
 
Summerwind said:
Only "honest" people would actually have a minor with them.
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Did you go to college?

I wonder if it's because they fear that selling to an adult with a minor present will end up the adult being the straw purchaser for the minor
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That is the concern. In the case of a husband and wife with a child, it's not a problem. When it's a senior with a freshman (and the freshman is pointing out bottles and debating the purchase), no dice.
 
They should be able to, but I wouldn't. I see no reason. It's ridiculous to me.
 
ecofarm said:
Did you go to college?



That is the concern. In the case of a husband and wife with a child, it's not a problem. When it's a senior with a freshman, no dice.
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Of course I went to college. And at age 16 was in bars, and could have had as many drinks as I wanted (I'm a tea totaller so I didn't want), but back then the drinking age was 18 and no one at the bar figured a college student wouldn't be 18 or over. Never tried to buy in a store, because I don't drink.
 
radcen said:
There's something of controversy going on here. A local retailer is refusing to sell alcohol to legal adults if a minor is present with them. Doesn't matter how old or young the minor is, and it doesn't matter if the minor is the adult's own kid.

The retailer is not breaking any laws by doing this, so that's not the issue... but should they? How would you react if a retailer refused to sell you alcohol just because you had your kid with you?

Please note that in this state it is perfectly legal for parents to serve their own minor children alcohol.
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Well; it's his choice. He sets a bad example for minors by owning a liquor store; or astore with liquor in it to begin with, but if he wants to live by a double standard there's nothing anybody can really do about it in my view.
 
radcen said:
There's something of controversy going on here. A local retailer is refusing to sell alcohol to legal adults if a minor is present with them. Doesn't matter how old or young the minor is, and it doesn't matter if the minor is the adult's own kid.

The retailer is not breaking any laws by doing this, so that's not the issue... but should they? How would you react if a retailer refused to sell you alcohol just because you had your kid with you?

Please note that in this state it is perfectly legal for parents to serve their own minor children alcohol.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the legality of it all is and that could vary from state to state. But when it come to the principle of liberty and unalienable rights, I don't think any private business owner should be required to conduct business in a way that is morally or ethically wrong to him/her. If that means other folks get business he drives away, well that could be a consequence of his/her choices, but I believe if we believe in liberty, the choice should be with the property owner.
 
Summerwind said:
Of course I went to college. And at age 16 was in bars, and could have had as many drinks as I wanted (I'm a tea totaller so I didn't want), but back then the drinking age was 18 and no one at the bar figured a college student wouldn't be 18 or over. Never tried to buy in a store, because I don't drink.
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Well, I can assure you that college kids are often short sighted enough to walk into a liquor store with the underage member(s) of the party-to-be.

When the minor has picked out the liquor, after debate about which one to get, and then cannot produce ID... would you sell to the over-21 friend that offers their ID? Could you do so in clear conscience that it is not being purchased for the minor to take part in?
 
radcen said:
There's something of controversy going on here. A local retailer is refusing to sell alcohol to legal adults if a minor is present with them. Doesn't matter how old or young the minor is, and it doesn't matter if the minor is the adult's own kid.

The retailer is not breaking any laws by doing this, so that's not the issue... but should they? How would you react if a retailer refused to sell you alcohol just because you had your kid with you?

Please note that in this state it is perfectly legal for parents to serve their own minor children alcohol.
Click to expand...


Should they be able to withhold the sell of alcohol, absolutely. I also believe a place of business should have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish for any reason if it does not create a life threatening situation.

Do I agree with their decision in this instance? No I do not.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I don't know what the legality of it all is and that could vary from state to state. But when it come to the principle of liberty and unalienable rights, I don't think any private business owner should be required to conduct business in a way that is morally or ethically wrong to him/her. If that means other folks get business he drives away, well that could be a consequence of his/her choices, but I believe if we believe in liberty, the choice should be with the property owner.
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As long as the owner's policy does not harm society or violate equal protection.
 
ecofarm said:
Well, I can assure you that college kids are often short sighted enough to walk into a liquor store with the underage member(s) of the party-to-be.

When the minor has picked out the liquor, after debate about which one to get, and then cannot produce ID... would you sell to the over-21 friend that offers their ID? Could you do so in clear conscience that it is not being purchased for the minor to take part in?
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Yes, the law says a 21 or older can buy alcohol. That is the end of my responsibility. What he/she does with it is his/her responsibility. Now if I was convinced that a straw purchase was happening, I'd be sure to get the license plate of a car if applicable, I'd have the name and address of the ID'er and I'd call the police and share my concerns and the information.
 
Summerwind said:
Now if I was convinced that a straw purchase was happening, I'd be sure to get the license plate of a car if applicable, I'd have the name and address of the ID'er and I'd call the police and share my concerns and the information.
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Your boss would not want such expenses and vigilantism as part of your job. It would cost him way too much and it would occupy way too much of your time at work. The easier, and obvious, solution is not to sell to obvious straw purchases.
 
ecofarm said:
As long as the owner's policy does not harm society or violate equal protection.
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The police are responsible for harm to society, not a shop owner. If the shop owner was concerned, he should retain the information of the ID (not the ID itself), and any other info such as a license of a car driven by said purchaser, and not attempt to make lawful decisions outside of his purview.
 
ecofarm said:
Your boss would not want such expenses and vigilantism as part of your job. It would cost him way too much and it would occupy way too much of your time at work. The easier, and obvious, solution is not to sell to obvious straw purchases.
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Sorry, but the same boss wouldn't want me to be turning away parents buying booze while shopping with their kids. In this case being discussed it appears that the person refusing is the boss, so I am referencing that perspective, and I'd insist all my employees do the same.

Straw buyers turned away from one store simply go to another. If I really want it stopped, and I would, then what I suggest is the only legal and real solution. Let the police handle that, it's not my responsibility nor my right to interfere beyond checking the ID of the purchaser.
 
Summerwind said:
The police are responsible for harm to society, not a shop owner. If the shop owner was concerned, he should retain the information of the ID (not the ID itself), and any other info such as a license of a car driven by said purchaser, and not attempt to make lawful decisions outside of his purview.
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I was referring to institutionalized racism, sexism and homophobia. No individual has a right to harm society by engaging in aggressive institutionalized economic warfare against a race or gender.
 
Summerwind said:
Sorry, but the same boss wouldn't want me to be turning away parents buying booze while shopping with their kids.
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ABC doesn't do that. They only deny purchase to obvious straw purchases; that's why the rule exists.

it's not my responsibility nor my right to interfere beyond checking the ID of the purchaser.
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Perhaps so, in your fantasy land. But that's not reality.

And this begs the question: what was all that crap you proposed about reporting them to the police?
 
Last edited:
radcen said:
There's something of controversy going on here. A local retailer is refusing to sell alcohol to legal adults if a minor is present with them. Doesn't matter how old or young the minor is, and it doesn't matter if the minor is the adult's own kid.

The retailer is not breaking any laws by doing this, so that's not the issue... but should they? How would you react if a retailer refused to sell you alcohol just because you had your kid with you?

Please note that in this state it is perfectly legal for parents to serve their own minor children alcohol.
Click to expand...

I vote yes.

A retailer should be able to make this decision. It's not discrimination based on sex, skin color, religion, or anything like that.

Then, the consumers should be able to find another place to do business if they really hate that concept that much.

People who chose to make bad business decisions should be free to do so.
 
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