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Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sams?

  • Agree

    Votes: 24 77.4%
  • disagree

    Votes: 7 22.6%

  • Total voters
    31
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

Using the "distraction" excuse is cowardly and not at all believable. NFL needs to man up about this. You know what else is distraction? Having a dog killer on your team, rapists, Ray Lewis, bigots like Dungee. It's obvious that teams avoided drafting Sam out of prejudice. They might want to keep in mind that in many of these cities, such discrimination is illegal. That it's a 'draft' makes no difference. It's still employment.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

No, it's gay because they are in fact taking the time to comment on another mans body. Men comment on women, and that is perfectly acceptable behavior, but commenting on and further being curious about other mens bodies is gay. It has nothing to do with insecurity and everything to do with what they are doing. It could be that they say the man has a great body and it would be just as frowned upon as saying the man has a small penis to many men that agree with me.

That's not gay. The fact that you think it is says more about you than it does anyone who might be doing those things.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

That's not gay. The fact that you think it is says more about you than it does anyone who might be doing those things.

Hardly. It says that I find the behavior creepy and a sign that the person is in fact gay.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

I kind of agree with his comments. The thing is there is never a point in the NFL draft where Michael Sam is clearly the best player. There's no way to convincingly argue that Sam will be significantly better than say Ahmad Dixon or Ken Bishop or 50 other prospects rated around there. I don't think the potential for distraction is all that huge of a drain on a team's chances, but given that I can have a player of pretty much equal NFL prospects I probably take someone else there. And this is coming as a huge Missouri Tiger, St. Louis Rams, and Michael Sam fan.

Now, on the other hand, if Gerald Robinson were gay and I were the Rams GM, I easily, easily still take him with the #2 pick. The potential for distraction is nowhere near enough to outweigh his advantages over other players like Jake Matthews or Taylor Lewan especially when considering drafting teammate Tre Mason a few rounds later.

The 7th round is pretty much a crapshoot and personally I probably wouldn't take the chance. Still, I don't think it was a terrible choice and as a fan I don't mind that the Rams picked him and I hope he does well for the team.

Well that's incredibly self-serving route to take. Hopefully you would get sued for it cause those employment discrimination laws exist for reason. Sorry but the media is all over certain players for various reasons and their "distraction" is tolerated. How very weak and fragile the NFL appears with all the crying about the media.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

Hardly. It says that I find the behavior creepy and a sign that the person is in fact gay.

Exactly. It says something about you and your opinions, certainly much more than it says about the reality of their sexuality.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

Exactly. It says something about you and your opinions, certainly much more than it says about the reality of their sexuality.

If you say so. I don't happen to agree with that considering that their behavior indicates certain tendencies and thought patterns. :shrug:
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

Well that's incredibly self-serving route to take. Hopefully you would get sued for it cause those employment discrimination laws exist for reason. Sorry but the media is all over certain players for various reasons and their "distraction" is tolerated. How very weak and fragile the NFL appears with all the crying about the media.

If by self serving you mean giving the team the best chance to win, then that's how a GM should operate. Other players' distractions are tolerated because they're good enough that their talent outweighs it. With Sam you can get a player of roughly equal talent at that point in the 7th. I wouldn't take the risk on the player who might hurt the team when I can get an equal player who won't.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

You don't need to be a "homophobe" to not want to shower with them.

It does if you think that's a valid reason for Sam to not be able to pursue his dream. Pardon me while i don't pity a bunch of millionaires.

Can't the NFL afford shower curtains FFS? This is the most pitiful excuse ever. There are gay players on probably every team, just not openly. This 'ordeal' is dealt with maturely in gyms, sports, dorms, the military across the country. Do you next propose that gays should be excluded from every facet of life, or the NFL justified in not being able to cope despite all those other people can?
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

It does if you think that's a valid reason for Sam to not be able to pursue his dream. Pardon me while i don't pity a bunch of millionaires.

Can't the NFL afford shower curtains FFS? This is the most pitiful excuse ever. There are gay players on probably every team, just not openly. This 'ordeal' is dealt with maturely in gyms, sports, dorms, the military across the country. Do you next propose that gays should be excluded from every facet of life, or the NFL justified in not being able to cope despite all those other people can?
I don't think its pity anyone is looking for.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

Using the "distraction" excuse is cowardly and not at all believable. NFL needs to man up about this. You know what else is distraction? Having a dog killer on your team, rapists, Ray Lewis, bigots like Dungee. It's obvious that teams avoided drafting Sam out of prejudice. They might want to keep in mind that in many of these cities, such discrimination is illegal. That it's a 'draft' makes no difference. It's still employment.

If Sam were a rapist or a dog killer he wouldn't have been drafted. If Lewid or Vick were gay they still would've been highly sought after. Nobody wants a media circus around a seventh round pick. Having one around a star is easily tolerable.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

Using the "distraction" excuse is cowardly and not at all believable. NFL needs to man up about this. You know what else is distraction? Having a dog killer on your team, rapists, Ray Lewis, bigots like Dungee. It's obvious that teams avoided drafting Sam out of prejudice. They might want to keep in mind that in many of these cities, such discrimination is illegal. That it's a 'draft' makes no difference. It's still employment.

Here is what his draft data said.

2014 NFL Draft[edit]
Early projections had Sam as a third- or fourth-round pick in the 2014 NFL Draft.[21] However, his performance in the NFL Scouting Combine in February 2014 was seen as disappointing, which lowered expectations on whether or not he would be taken in the draft.[22] He was seen as too small to play defensive end and too slow to play outside linebacker.[23] He showed improvement at a public workout a month later, but his pre-draft rankings ranged from 12th to 25th among defensive ends. At the 2013 draft, 33 defensive ends were selected overall, with 23 taken in the final four rounds.[24]

St. Louis Rams[edit]
Sam was drafted by the St. Louis Rams in the seventh round, with the 249th overall selection, of the 2014 draft. He became the first publicly gay player to be drafted into the NFL.[26][27] In a statement, President Barack Obama said that he "congratulates Michael Sam, the Rams and the NFL for taking an important step forward today in our Nation's journey" and that "[f]rom the playing field to the corporate boardroom, LGBT Americans prove everyday that you should be judged by what you do and not who you are."[28][29]

In the aftermath of his draft selection, St. Louis Rams jerseys bearing his name became the second best selling rookie jerseys at the NFL's website. Sam's jersey was more popular than all of the top-round choices except for Cleveland quarterback (and Heisman Trophy winner) Johnny Manziel. On July 16, Michael Sam won the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the 2014 ESPYS.[30]


We are talking about a 7th round pick who according the draft experts does not fit in as your standard linebacker or defensive end. Even without being gay he would be a gamble, which he was as indicated by the 7th round pick. So you have a very late round pick that will bring a media circus with him to training camp and into the regular season if Sams makes the Rams roster.

I can understand how a contending team may not want any distractions that may lead to a loss and hence missing the playoffs. The NFL draft is all about talent, the needs of the team, projected development, and more. It would be very hard if not impossible to prove discrimination base on Sams overall assessment and whether any particular team really needed him to fill a void.

As for Vick and Lewis, they already played years in the NFL, so this is comparing apples to oranges. Personally, if I were a NFL GM, I would have drafted him based on what he showed in college. The 7th rounds seems about right, now it is up to Sams personally and the St. Louis Rams to see if he can make that team.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

I do not believe Michael's sexual orientation will be a distraction to his teammates or his organization. I do, however, believe that the media attention that comes with it will be a distraction
I'm sorry, but this is double-speak. If the media is a distraction, and the media is focusing on a particular individual, then by natural and logical extension that particular individual IS the distraction. Why do we always insist on whitewashing everything?

Having said that, I wish we could just simply not care. Does he help the team win, or not? Barring something really extreme like convicted child molestation (or similar), that's all I care about.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

I'm sorry, but this is double-speak. If the media is a distraction, and the media is focusing on a particular individual, then by natural and logical extension that particular individual IS the distraction. Why do we always insist on whitewashing everything?

Having said that, I wish we could just simply not care. Does he help the team win, or not? Barring something really extreme like convicted child molestation (or similar), that's all I care about.

Even in the NFL, they'd probably let a child molester play if he was an all-pro.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

If Sam were a rapist or a dog killer he wouldn't have been drafted. If Lewid or Vick were gay they still would've been highly sought after. Nobody wants a media circus around a seventh round pick. Having one around a star is easily tolerable.

Maybe, but if you take the gay out of the equation, you can't blame them for the pick.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

Vick was a huge distraction. Not as much in the locker room but to any team that took him. Protests in every city.

Sure but Vick is also a phenomenal player when he's healthy.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

Maybe, but if you take the gay out of the equation, you can't blame them for the pick.

Of course not. Even with his bad combine he's right around a 6-7th rounder. Even considering Sam being gay I don't really see it as a bad pick, just probably a risk I wouldn't have taken.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

First, I have a TON of respect for Tony Dungy as a coach and a person (from what I know of him). But I have a tiny bit less of the latter for him today.


I am getting a little tired of people saying the same thing:

'Good luck to him - but I don't want him. Too distracting.'

That's a little like saying 'I love blacks - I just don't want them at my party...too distracting.'

Since no openly homosexual man has EVER played in the NFL, then there is no way possible that they can know how distracting he will be.
Maybe he will be distracting. Maybe not at all. Maybe he will aid the team's bottom line as LGBT fans/non-fans buy the teams paraphernalia in huge numbers, all over the nation in support of drafting him.

And multi-millionaire head coaches/GM's should have a little more on their mind then just winning and losing...like doing what is right once in a while. Furthering the cause of humanity should creep into the equation sometimes - and since LGBT represent probably well over 10% of the population...that is a lot of humanity.


I am a HUGE Dallas Cowboys fan and I am straight.

But I would have LOVED for the Cowboys to have been the ones who drafted him...even if he turned out to be a huge distraction. Just so I could feel a little bit more pride in 'America's team' (no - I don't like that nickname either).


Btw, it's lucky everyone did not say that about Jackie Robinson.


Finally, I am not the slightest bit interested in debating this. If you don't agree with me - I don't care. And if you do - then there is nothing to debate.

I am simply stating this to add my opinion to the discussion.

As much as liberals desperately want to link Michael Sam's "adversity" to Jackie Robinson's it's NO WHERE near the same thing. People are really kidding themselves and doing a disservice to the civil rights movement when they make these comparisons. Robinson had to deal with legitimate death threats whereas Sam has to deal with a handful of people willing to say publicly that he shouldn't have been drafted. And quote frankly HE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DRAFTED. He's just not an NFL caliber player.

We're constantly told by the left that we need to look past ethnicity, religion, gender, sexuality, etc. and focus on the person as an individual but apparently that goes out the window when the individual isn't good enough. Then we need to focus on his sexuality.

The whole thing is just asinine.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

"when he's healthy"

I don't know what your point is but Michael Sam would have went first overall if he had Michael Vick's talent.

He doesn't though. He may legitimately even have been the worst player taken in this year's draft.

He's certainly in that conversation anyway.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

As much as liberals desperately want to link Michael Sam's "adversity" to Jackie Robinson's it's NO WHERE near the same thing. People are really kidding themselves and doing a disservice to the civil rights movement when they make these comparisons. Robinson had to deal with legitimate death threats whereas Sam has to deal with a handful of people willing to say publicly that he shouldn't have been drafted. And quote frankly HE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DRAFTED. He's just not an NFL caliber player.

We're constantly told by the left that we need to look past ethnicity, religion, gender, sexuality, etc. and focus on the person as an individual but apparently that goes out the window when the individual isn't good enough. Then we need to focus on his sexuality.

The whole thing is just asinine.

He was projected around the 6th or 7th round, and got drafted in the 7th round. So to be drafed in the 7th isn't out of the realm. Whether or not he's good enough remains to be seen. Marques Colston was a 7th rounder, in fact the second to last pick in the draft. He turned out pretty decent. Meanwhile everybody thought Ryan Leaf was good enough, some even thought better than Peyton Manning at the time, and he wasn't NFL caliber.

How well he can play remains to be seen, and I think he deserves a shot.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

I don't know what your point is but Michael Sam would have went first overall if he had Michael Vick's talent.

He doesn't though. He may legitimately even have been the worst player taken in this year's draft.

He's certainly in that conversation anyway.
When was Vick healthy last?
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

I'm sorry, but this is double-speak. If the media is a distraction, and the media is focusing on a particular individual, then by natural and logical extension that particular individual IS the distraction. Why do we always insist on whitewashing everything?

Having said that, I wish we could just simply not care. Does he help the team win, or not? Barring something really extreme like convicted child molestation (or similar), that's all I care about.

I think what he's saying is his teammates probably won't care about his sexuality to any real degree but it's going to be the focal point of the media surrounding the team, which will be where the distraction lies. Seeing how the media has blown up every thing involving him since he came out of the closet, I'm not really sure how anyone can disagree. I mean we're having a conversation about the audacity of a former coach acknowledging he would have passed on a SEVENTH rounder. Pretty much everyone drafted in the seventh round could potentially have been passed up on.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

When was Vick healthy last?

Vick is in his mid-30's now.

He made the Pro Bowl when he came back.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

How well he can play remains to be seen, and I think he deserves a shot.

Because he sucks dick?

I don't have a problem with a team picking him late in the draft. It's the idea that if you DIDN'T pick him you're a bigot I have a problem with.
 
Re: Do you agree or disagree with Tony Dungys's comments about gay player Michael Sam

Vick is in his mid-30's now.

He made the Pro Bowl when he came back.

So? I don't think he has played a whole season. He is notoriously injury prone.
 
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