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If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dead?

If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dead?

  • Yes Putin would still be expanding with Romney

    Votes: 13 86.7%

  • No

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • Total voters
    15
Ryan5

Ryan5

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DutchNews.nl - Ukraine air disaster leaves 295 dead, 154 are Dutch nationals

I do wonder if the ultra leftists of Western Europeans are still happy, especially the Dutch, that Obama was elected, seeing as 154 Dutch just were killed by Vladimir Putin's expansionist forces, rebels.




[h=3]Ukraine air disaster leaves 295 dead, 154 are Dutch nationals[/h]Thursday 17 July 2014
ukraine%20plane%20crash.jpg

Smouldering wreckage at the crash site. Photo: Reuters
At least 154 Dutch nationals were on board the Malaysian Airlines plane thought to have been brought down by a rocket over Ukraine.
Malaysian Airways spokesman Huib Gorter told a press conference at Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport on Thursday evening 154 Dutch nationals, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysian, 11 Indonesians, six British nationals, four Germans, four Belgians, three Filipinos and one Canadian were on board.

The nationality of 47 other passengers has not yet been determined.

The Malaysian Airways plane left Schiphol airport on Thursday afternoon with 295 people on board and crashed in Ukraine shortly after 14.15 hours.

The Boeing 777, with 280 passengers and 15 crew, was en route for Kuala Lumpur.

The Ukraine authorities say the plane was brought down by pro-Russian separatists but this has been denied by the groups themselves, broadcaster Nos said.

According to American media reports, the plane was brought down by some form of rocket. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has described it as 'an act of terrorism'.
According to website nu.nl, airspace over Ukraine has been closed. Other media reports say some airlines are now avoiding Ukraine.
King
Dutch king Willem-Alexander issued a statement saying he was 'deeply shocked' by the news.

'We offer our deepest sympathy to the families, friends and colleagues of the victims and to those who are still uncertain if their loved ones were on board the plane,' the short statement said.
The Dutch foreign ministry has opened a phone line for relatives to ring for further information: 00 31 70 348 77 70.
Independent inquiry
Journalist Noah Sneider said on Twitter: 'At crash site of #MH17. Bodies everywhere, organs splayed out. Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster. #ukraine.'
Dutch foreign minister Frans Timmermans has said investigators must have 'unhindered access' to the crash site. There must be an independent investigation into the disaster, he said.
The foreign ministry is sending extra officials to Kiev to help out at the Dutch embassy.
BBC news reports
New York Times journalist at the scene
Kyiv Post report of transcript featuring pro Russian rebels discussing downing of plane.
© DutchNews.nl
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

The poll is insufficiently varied.

You gave us 2 stupid options, both of which are wrong:

a) yes, he would be expanding under romney (hurr durr, obama is good)
b) no (hurr durr, obama is weak)

When in fact the correct options would be either one of these:
c) I don't know and uninformed, partisan speculation like this is stupid.
d) No, I don't think it matters who the US president is, Putins' agenda is independent of that of the USA's because the US will not intervene on behalf of Ukraine since it's not in NATO

I know some of these are larger than the characters allowed in the options of the polls, but make an effort, when creating the poll and presenting information, to not be simple.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Simplicity is best.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Believe it or not, most of the world doesn't care who the American president is. We certainly do here in the United States, but most of the rest of the world cares about their own leaders, not ours.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Ryan5 said:
Simplicity is best.
Click to expand...

Only to the simple mind.

This isn't overbearing complexity, all I showed you is that your poll is incomplete and lacks several options. At least you could have dumped in an "other" option alongside those 2 wrong options.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Ryan5 said:
Simplicity is best.
Click to expand...

I don't have a great appreciation for the current administration; to link 154 Dutch deaths to same is asinine.

my :twocents:

that's entertainment

Thom Paine
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Another asinine hater thread.

Thanks Obama,
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Rainman05 said:
The poll is insufficiently varied.

You gave us 2 stupid options, both of which are wrong:

a) yes, he would be expanding under romney (hurr durr, obama is good)
b) no (hurr durr, obama is weak)

When in fact the correct options would be either one of these:
c) I don't know and uninformed, partisan speculation like this is stupid.
d) No, I don't think it matters who the US president is, Putins' agenda is independent of that of the USA's because the US will not intervene on behalf of Ukraine since it's not in NATO

I know some of these are larger than the characters allowed in the options of the polls, but make an effort, when creating the poll and presenting information, to not be simple.
Click to expand...

The last time Russia supplied a former satellite nation in a civil war that was actually just a surrogate for Moscow, it was a strong Democrat President that led NATO and the UN to action. This time...

Yes, the poll is simplistic and the question of whether or not Russia would be doing this if Romney were President cannot be realistically answered. What IS debatable, is what would potentially be different in the response by the US if just about anyone else were President, including Hillary, because I seriously doubt her response would be finger wagging and a stern talking to - nor would Romney's, or at least that's what I believe.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

I shudder at the thought...If Obama wasnt president 30% of the country would be dead due to the lack of proper healthcare and women's rights would be set back 70 years.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Awesome! said:
I shudder at the thought...If Obama wasnt president 30% of the country would be dead due to the lack of proper healthcare and women's rights would be set back 70 years.
Click to expand...

:lamo
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Beaudreaux said:
The last time Russia supplied a former satellite nation in a civil war that was actually just a surrogate for Moscow, it was a strong Democrat President that led NATO and the UN to action. This time...

Yes, the poll is simplistic and the question of whether or not Russia would be doing this if Romney were President cannot be realistically answered. What IS debatable, is what would potentially be different in the response by the US if just about anyone else were President, including Hillary, because I seriously doubt her response would be finger wagging and a stern talking to - nor would Romney's, or at least that's what I believe.
Click to expand...

True, but...

There was a question of ethnic cleansing in former yugoslavia. There isn't any such question here. While the fault line is along (blurry) ethnic divides the conflict itself isn't ethnic. It's political.

I am sure that if this conflict would gain such a dimension then a response from NATO and the UN would be much more severe and much stronger. But it won't, so it won't.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

As I recall, didn't Putin invade Georgia under Bush's watch? Everyone seems to forget that. Really, though, it's irrelevant to Putin as to who the current U.S President, British Prime Minister, or German chancellor is. He has an expansionist timetable that he is adhering to no matter what.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Graffias said:
As I recall, didn't Putin invade Georgia under Bush's watch? Everyone seems to forget that. Really, though, it's irrelevant to Putin as to who the current U.S President, British Prime Minister, or German chancellor is. He has an expansionist timetable that he is adhering to no matter what.
Click to expand...

Putin invading Georgia was different, we had a Republican as President. He was busy losing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the fact that he did nothing showed his resolve to keep that record up with Russia. See at how intimidating he looked too...

May+1%252C+2003--Mission+accomplish--+Pesident+Bush+on+flight+deck.jpg
 
Last edited:
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Ryan5 said:
DutchNews.nl - Ukraine air disaster leaves 295 dead, 154 are Dutch nationals

I do wonder if the ultra leftists of Western Europeans are still happy, especially the Dutch, that Obama was elected, seeing as 154 Dutch just were killed by Vladimir Putin's expansionist forces, rebels.




[h=3]Ukraine air disaster leaves 295 dead, 154 are Dutch nationals[/h]Thursday 17 July 2014
ukraine%20plane%20crash.jpg

Smouldering wreckage at the crash site. Photo: Reuters
At least 154 Dutch nationals were on board the Malaysian Airlines plane thought to have been brought down by a rocket over Ukraine.
Malaysian Airways spokesman Huib Gorter told a press conference at Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport on Thursday evening 154 Dutch nationals, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysian, 11 Indonesians, six British nationals, four Germans, four Belgians, three Filipinos and one Canadian were on board.

The nationality of 47 other passengers has not yet been determined.

The Malaysian Airways plane left Schiphol airport on Thursday afternoon with 295 people on board and crashed in Ukraine shortly after 14.15 hours.

The Boeing 777, with 280 passengers and 15 crew, was en route for Kuala Lumpur.

The Ukraine authorities say the plane was brought down by pro-Russian separatists but this has been denied by the groups themselves, broadcaster Nos said.

According to American media reports, the plane was brought down by some form of rocket. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has described it as 'an act of terrorism'.
According to website nu.nl, airspace over Ukraine has been closed. Other media reports say some airlines are now avoiding Ukraine.
King
Dutch king Willem-Alexander issued a statement saying he was 'deeply shocked' by the news.

'We offer our deepest sympathy to the families, friends and colleagues of the victims and to those who are still uncertain if their loved ones were on board the plane,' the short statement said.
The Dutch foreign ministry has opened a phone line for relatives to ring for further information: 00 31 70 348 77 70.
Independent inquiry
Journalist Noah Sneider said on Twitter: 'At crash site of #MH17. Bodies everywhere, organs splayed out. Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster. #ukraine.'
Dutch foreign minister Frans Timmermans has said investigators must have 'unhindered access' to the crash site. There must be an independent investigation into the disaster, he said.
The foreign ministry is sending extra officials to Kiev to help out at the Dutch embassy.
BBC news reports
New York Times journalist at the scene
Kyiv Post report of transcript featuring pro Russian rebels discussing downing of plane.
© DutchNews.nl
Click to expand...


Gosh, your huge font size really makes your argument.....said no one ever.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Ryan5 said:
DutchNews.nl - Ukraine air disaster leaves 295 dead, 154 are Dutch nationals

I do wonder if the ultra leftists of Western Europeans are still happy, especially the Dutch, that Obama was elected, seeing as 154 Dutch just were killed by Vladimir Putin's expansionist forces, rebels.




Ukraine air disaster leaves 295 dead, 154 are Dutch nationals

Thursday 17 July 2014
ukraine%20plane%20crash.jpg

Smouldering wreckage at the crash site. Photo: Reuters
At least 154 Dutch nationals were on board the Malaysian Airlines plane thought to have been brought down by a rocket over Ukraine.
Malaysian Airways spokesman Huib Gorter told a press conference at Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport on Thursday evening 154 Dutch nationals, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysian, 11 Indonesians, six British nationals, four Germans, four Belgians, three Filipinos and one Canadian were on board.

The nationality of 47 other passengers has not yet been determined.

The Malaysian Airways plane left Schiphol airport on Thursday afternoon with 295 people on board and crashed in Ukraine shortly after 14.15 hours.

The Boeing 777, with 280 passengers and 15 crew, was en route for Kuala Lumpur.

The Ukraine authorities say the plane was brought down by pro-Russian separatists but this has been denied by the groups themselves, broadcaster Nos said.

According to American media reports, the plane was brought down by some form of rocket. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has described it as 'an act of terrorism'.
According to website nu.nl, airspace over Ukraine has been closed. Other media reports say some airlines are now avoiding Ukraine.
King
Dutch king Willem-Alexander issued a statement saying he was 'deeply shocked' by the news.

'We offer our deepest sympathy to the families, friends and colleagues of the victims and to those who are still uncertain if their loved ones were on board the plane,' the short statement said.
The Dutch foreign ministry has opened a phone line for relatives to ring for further information: 00 31 70 348 77 70.
Independent inquiry
Journalist Noah Sneider said on Twitter: 'At crash site of #MH17. Bodies everywhere, organs splayed out. Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster. #ukraine.'
Dutch foreign minister Frans Timmermans has said investigators must have 'unhindered access' to the crash site. There must be an independent investigation into the disaster, he said.
The foreign ministry is sending extra officials to Kiev to help out at the Dutch embassy.
BBC news reports
New York Times journalist at the scene
Kyiv Post report of transcript featuring pro Russian rebels discussing downing of plane.
© DutchNews.nl
Click to expand...

I don't think it would have probably mattered, I do not think any one who ran would likely have gotten us into a war over the Ukraine, nor would any of them likely to run have done significantly more than Obama. However, and it is important to say, speculating one what would have been if only things where different is kinda silly, much like using much larger fonts in your posts...
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Rainman05 said:
The poll is insufficiently varied.

You gave us 2 stupid options, both of which are wrong:

a) yes, he would be expanding under romney (hurr durr, obama is good)
b) no (hurr durr, obama is weak)

When in fact the correct options would be either one of these:
c) I don't know and uninformed, partisan speculation like this is stupid.
d) No, I don't think it matters who the US president is, Putins' agenda is independent of that of the USA's because the US will not intervene on behalf of Ukraine since it's not in NATO

I know some of these are larger than the characters allowed in the options of the polls, but make an effort, when creating the poll and presenting information, to not be simple.
Click to expand...


Exactly...because Bush did SO much when Putin attacked Georgia...
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

beefheart said:
Exactly...because Bush did SO much when Putin attacked Georgia...
Click to expand...

Too bad the poll didnt have McCain/Palin options.
We would never have heard of Romney--and quite possibly anyone else for that matter .
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

NIMBY said:
Too bad the poll didnt have McCain/Palin options.
We would never have heard of Romney--and quite possibly anyone else for that matter .
Click to expand...

Amazing how the ODS folk have to make every single news story Obama's fault. Just like the BDS folk that blamed every bug fart on Bush.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

I was not aware that Obama was the president of Russia, because how else could he have stopped Putin. Also, if first has to be proven that Putin had anything to do with the shooting down the this plane.

Obama is the leader of the United States, not the world. His powers might be considerable, he is not omnipotent.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

[/FONT]
Redress said:
I don't think it would have probably mattered, I do not think any one who ran would likely have gotten us into a war over the Ukraine, nor would any of them likely to run have done significantly more than Obama. However, and it is important to say, speculating one what would have been if only things where different is kinda silly, much like using much larger fonts in your posts...
Click to expand...

[SUP]funny[/SUP]
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Redress said:
I don't think it would have probably mattered, I do not think any one who ran would likely have gotten us into a war over the Ukraine, nor would any of them likely to run have done significantly more than Obama. However, and it is important to say, speculating one what would have been if only things where different is kinda silly, much like using much larger fonts in your posts...
Click to expand...

3591863+_df0ebe4d65b8d3b4f38c9a05e395159f.jpg
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Awesome! said:
I shudder at the thought...If Obama wasnt president 30% of the country would be dead due to the lack of proper healthcare and women's rights would be set back 70 years.
Click to expand...

:lamo

Sources?

:lamo
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

caps lock.jpg

(same works for giant, bold typeface)
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

Rainman05 said:
The poll is insufficiently varied.

You gave us 2 stupid options, both of which are wrong:

a) yes, he would be expanding under romney (hurr durr, obama is good)
b) no (hurr durr, obama is weak)

When in fact the correct options would be either one of these:
c) I don't know and uninformed, partisan speculation like this is stupid.
d) No, I don't think it matters who the US president is, Putins' agenda is independent of that of the USA's because the US will not intervene on behalf of Ukraine since it's not in NATO

I know some of these are larger than the characters allowed in the options of the polls, but make an effort, when creating the poll and presenting information, to not be simple.
Click to expand...

Option D. Even if Romney was POTUS we wouldn't do anything. The American voter is done with foreign wars for a long while.
 
Re: If Obama had not been president, would Putin be expanding? Would 154 Dutch be dea

The people who shot down the Malaysian airplane didn't ask the USA for permission before they fired the missile.
 
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