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Does the US owe otherwise law abiding Latin Americans sancuary from druglords?

Does US drug problem warrant offering refugee status to people from cartel areas?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 6 17.6%

  • No.

    Votes: 28 82.4%
  • Total voters
    34
Kal'Stang said:
Can't prove a negative. Didn't you know that? Besides, you made a claim, it's your responsibility to back up your claim.
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It is my responsibilty to prove that your "team" is playing sleazy, low-ball politics on immigration--see Reagan.
Congrats on being part of the divide America krew, just because of their hatred of Obama.
Your side has set precedence of how "we" will behave if you Republicans ever have the Prez again.
 
Smeagol said:
I was watching a report this morning on the influx of illegal immigrants. They interviewed one lady who said the reason she and her children entered America was to escape the danger of living in her own country that is now controlled by drug cartels. It dawned on me, the drug cartels exist because of the American market and demand for illegal drugs. A huge often unspoken cause of the illegal immigration problem is possibly American-made; our demand for illegal drugs that have made their country uninhabitable due to the organized crime culture that now exists in their country. If American vices have inadvertently created a drug cartel controlled war zone in their country, do we have a moral obligation to offer the otherwise law abiding citizens of those affected countries sanctuary as refugees?
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We do not owe anybody anything. No one makes them traffic in drugs. They make that decision on their own.
 
NIMBY said:
NO...
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You're comparing those against illegal aliens to the KKK. Which is just like Comparing Bush or Obama to Hitler.

NIMBY said:
Complete and total strawman.
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We're talking about illegal immigration and the drug cartels in this thread and yet you pop in spouting off how those that are "anti-immigration" (in your eyes) are just like the KKK. The strawman is on your part when you bring such garbage into a thread about illegal immigration. Now if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying then I apologize. But if you don't want to be misinterpreted perhaps you shouldn't use such generalities.
 
NIMBY said:
It is my responsibilty to prove that your "team" is playing sleazy, low-ball politics on immigration--see Reagan.
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I don't have a team. I'm Independent. :shrug: And Reagan has nothing to do with what is going on right now. Indeed, not only has he not been president for over a decade the man is dead. You made a claim that we are responsible for the laws in other countries. Either back it up or admit that you're wrong.

NIMBY said:
Congrats on being part of the divide America krew, just because of their hatred of Obama.
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:roll: More hyperbole.

NIMBY said:
Your side has set precedence of how "we" will behave if you Republicans ever have the Prez again.
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Last I knew both sides try to control how everyone behaves. Has nothing to do with party affiliation. Has everything to do with greed and power. And that knows no party boundary.
 
NIMBY said:
Drama queen much!
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Nope, statement of fact since you apparently think I should know the bill.

NIMBY said:
Yet you continue to be obtuse on the existence of a Senate bill on immigration passed last year.
Why is that Kal?
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Saying that I have no idea what bill you're talking about multiple times is being obtuse? When are you going to provide a link for this bill?

NIMBY said:
Yet it has passed the Senate and you're saying it hasn't while admitting you don't know anything about it.
We call that lying where I come from .
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Sorry, meant House. That is what you said wasn't it? That the House wouldn't even look at it?

NIMBY said:
You don't even know what law was passed last year by the Senate that the House won't look at--you've got work to do to get caught up Sir .
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Smeagol said:
Yes, I agree However, the Latin American cartels aren't supplying Germany with illegal drugs.
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I should clarify that when I said. "...the same vices even", I meant many have the same vices but some have different vices, hence every society has their vice, whatever it may be.

Germans have their vices, too, just maybe not in Latin America's market. Doesn't change my overall point, though.
 
radcen said:
I should clarify that when I said. "...the same vices even", I meant many have the same vices but some have different vices, hence every society has their vice, whatever it may be.

Germans have their vices, too, just maybe not in Latin America's market. Doesn't change my overall point, though.
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I agree but if our particular vices have made Latin Americans living peacefully in their own homes I wondering do we have a duty to either help make their homes livable again or offer them new homes is all I was asking.
 
 
No. We do not "owe" it to them. We may choose to offer them increased immigration out of a desire to help them, but they do not have a right to demand it of us.
 
Smeagol said:
I agree but if our particular vices have made Latin Americans living peacefully in their own homes I wondering do we have a duty to either help make their homes livable again or offer them new homes is all I was asking.
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It's not only our vices but our policies and direct involvement. See my post above. Unless we stand up and do something about certain agencies and what they really do, how can anyone sit here and say we are uninvolved? They really need to read up on the history of the drug trade.
 
Smeagol said:
Yes, I agree However, the Latin American cartels aren't supplying Germany with illegal drugs.
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:confused: Sure. And Afghan farmers aren't supplying America with Heroin. Cause, you know, drug dealers are afraid of the water....

cocaine-route.png
 
cpwill said:
:confused: Sure. And Afghan farmers aren't supplying America with Heroin. Cause, you know, drug dealers are afraid of the water....

cocaine-route.png
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And how is that so, cause it sure ain't the farmers doing the trafficking:

The Spoils of War: Afghanistan’s Multibillion Dollar Heroin Trade | Global Research

Heroin is a multibillion dollar business supported by powerful interests, which requires a steady and secure commodity flow. One of the “hidden” objectives of the war was precisely to restore the CIA sponsored drug trade to its historical levels and exert direct control over the drug routes.
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How Opium is Keeping US in Afghanistan: CIA’s Shady History of Drug Trafficking | MEDIA ROOTS

CIA Created Afghan Heroin Trade | Veterans Today
 
Smeagol said:
I was watching a report this morning on the influx of illegal immigrants. They interviewed one lady who said the reason she and her children entered America was to escape the danger of living in her own country that is now controlled by drug cartels. It dawned on me, the drug cartels exist because of the American market and demand for illegal drugs. A huge often unspoken cause of the illegal immigration problem is possibly American-made; our demand for illegal drugs that have made their country uninhabitable due to the organized crime culture that now exists in their country. If American vices have inadvertently created a drug cartel controlled war zone in their country, do we have a moral obligation to offer the otherwise law abiding citizens of those affected countries sanctuary as refugees?
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Why did you phrase your question differently from the thread title?
 
Smeagol said:
I agree but if our particular vices have made Latin Americans living peacefully in their own homes I wondering do we have a duty to either help make their homes livable again or offer them new homes is all I was asking.
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How far do we take it? If we were to suddenly become 100% virtuous and stop drug use completely, would we then owe drug people retraining? Their sudden lack of "employment" would be our fault, too.

Like I said earlier, I empathize with them, but no. What's missing from the conversation is what level of responsibility do people have for their own situation. There's always going to be outside influences pushing and pulling of some kind, legal or illegal.
 
radcen said:
How far do we take it? If we were to suddenly become 100% virtuous and stop drug use completely, would we then owe drug people retraining? Their sudden lack of "employment" would be our fault, too.

Like I said earlier, I empathize with them, but no. What's missing from the conversation is what level of responsibility do people have for their own situation. There's always going to be outside influences pushing and pulling of some kind, legal or illegal.
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Several factors would come into play I think:

1. Are we responsible for the problem?
2. Are the victims (in this case refugees) innocent?
3. Is the problem significant?
4. Do we care or are we the type of people willing to send people back to where they came from to likely face death?

In the case if those profiting from the illegal drug industry, I wouldn't call them innocent.

I'm not saying there are any easy solutions. The world is messed up. I just personally feel for people who are trying to save themselves and their children from being gunned down by drug cartels. What's especially troubling is our own drug demand created those conditions in their home countries.
 
American said:
Why did you phrase your question differently from the thread title?
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I thought I was simply asking the same question differently. Sorry for any confusion.
 
Generally,anyone who tries to enter and stay in the USA as a refugee has to pass through a legal process.




Except when President Obama says that the law doesn't apply.
 
I'd be curious what Mexican law had to say about people passing through their country.
 
Smeagol said:
I thought I was simply asking the same question differently. Sorry for any confusion.
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Not sure why you would want to do that, but whatever.
 
Smeagol said:
I was watching a report this morning on the influx of illegal immigrants. They interviewed one lady who said the reason she and her children entered America was to escape the danger of living in her own country that is now controlled by drug cartels. It dawned on me, the drug cartels exist because of the American market and demand for illegal drugs. A huge often unspoken cause of the illegal immigration problem is possibly American-made; our demand for illegal drugs that have made their country uninhabitable due to the organized crime culture that now exists in their country. If American vices have inadvertently created a drug cartel controlled war zone in their country, do we have a moral obligation to offer the otherwise law abiding citizens of those affected countries sanctuary as refugees?
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We do not owe them anything.

That being said one of the best things we could do for botrh nations is to legalize drugs.

There are many reasons for people to illegally immigrate to the US but yes the violence and danger from drug cartels is a big one. Legalize drugs and the cartels lose their power and then the government of Mexico can eventually start acting like a real government. This of course will take away one motive for illegal immigration. Hopefully over time Mexico and other nations can eventually improve their own nations enough to motivate their people to stay ( a long shot I know ).
 
American said:
Not sure why you would want to do that, but whatever.
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There are limits on the number of characters you can have in a title of a thread whereas in the body of a post you have more freedom to get more detailed. Plus in writing some people suggest wording things differently as you go to redundancy unless you're trying to do so specifically for emphasis.
 
americanwoman said:
And how is that so, cause it sure ain't the farmers doing the trafficking:
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Because the farmers are illiterate dirt herders who grow the raw poppy, and have no experience outside of their crappy little homesteads, and taxing them and running the actual lines (or providing "protection" to those that do) is a major source of Taliban and Haqqanni funding?

The poppy farmers are doing the trafficking in the same manner that a slave-child in China is designing Apple products.

How Opium is Keeping US in Afghanistan: CIA’s Shady History of Drug Trafficking | MEDIA ROOTS

CIA Created Afghan Heroin Trade | Veterans Today
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:lamo
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I'd be curious what Mexican law had to say about people passing through their country.
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:lol: if you are caught illegally immigrating into Mexico from the South they treat you as a criminal and forcibly deport you. Also, they have a fence. Because illegal immigration is wrong. :lol:
 
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