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Can we talk Doctors? A Discussion on the Academic Title

Can one be called a Doctor, no matter the setting, if they have a Doctrates?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 55.6%
  • No

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Depends on the setting

    Votes: 6 33.3%

  • Total voters
    18

Zinthaniel

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No, this has nothing to do with Obamacare so retract your claws.

I have for a very long time, as have many others, referred to physicians as "Doctors". However, as a college student who is now more aware of degree and the titles that come with them - I now know that a Doctor isn't necessarily a "Doctor" and a "Doctor" is not always, technically, a Doctor.

So here is a thread on a nursing site regarding their right as a nurse to refer to themselves as a Doctor if they have earned, through rigurous study and invested time, a doctrates in Nursing Practice ( A degree that allows them to act in some capacities as a physician)

Can you be called "Doctor" with a PhD in Nursing? - pg.5 | allnurses

An articulate quote from one Dr. Nurse -

It seems to me that some of the posters in this thread have some "self esteem issues" when it comes to the profession of nursing -- and are putting physicians on a pedastal they do not deserve.

It is wrong to put physicians on a pedastal and it is wrong to encourage the general public to do so. Other disciplines have much to offer and should not be shoved aside or diminished by encouraging a glorification of the medical profession over all others. We should be educating the public about the value of the other professions, not perpetuating any existing misunderstandings or illusions about the absolute supremacy of medicine.

As I have said before, I introduce myself using my first and last name -- rarely using any title and always identifying myself as a nurse. But my PhD outranks an MD in the world of academic degrees and I have earned the title of "Doctor" with 7 years of full time graduate education plus many years of practice. In case you didn't notice, I have spent more years in school than most physicians.

I have earned the title of "Dr." and will use it when I choose to use a title. Those who don't want nursing (or other disciplines) to be given the respect and public acknowledgement we have earned should get over their desire to worship physicians. It's insulting to those of us who have done the work to earn other doctoral degrees.

Physicians chose to use the title of Dr. back when it was an elevation for them to be called the same thing as college professors with PhD's. Historically, their education was less and the "Dr." title was a way for them to be elevated in the public eye. They should not now try to kick the PhD's down by stripping the title they appropriated from them in the first place. If they want a title that is exclusively their's, they should either use the title "physician" or make up another title -- not kick the original "owners" of that title out of the club
.

Now this is a MD forum discussing the same topic. Skim through it if you like but the overall sentiments there are - "No only we physicians get to be called 'Doctors'"
Doctor of Nursing Practice? | Student Doctor Network

Now the title Ph.D predates the academic established field of Medical Practice. Being a Doctor of any field and referring to yourself as a Doctor was thing before physicians stepped into town. From what I can gather physicians in America, since outside of the US physicians are often referred to as just that physicians, started referring to themselves as Doctors to gain more repsect for a field of study that at the time wasn't being as respected as it should be.

Though physicians are skilled, vital, and educated people - I don't believe they have the right to monopolize the title Doctor, especially when many physicians do not have a Doctrates in the first place. Granted as language has evolved the word Doctor now includes physician as a definiton, but I don't believe that addition in meaning should trump the original and still applicable meaning of -

A person who has earned the highest academic degree conferred by a university.

In a nutshell if you have a Doctrates in Economy - You are a doctor.
If you have a doctrates in English Literature - You are a doctor. And you have every right to refer to yourself by your earned titled.
 
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Fair enough outside of a hospital or in any setting a person may expect to come across a medical doctor.

People have expectations in context...and litigation issues surrounding proclaiming yourself as something regarding consent.
 
Fair enough outside of a hospital or in any setting a person may expect to come across a medical doctor.

People have expectations in context...and litigation issues surrounding proclaiming yourself as something regarding consent.

So in other words, no?
 
So in other words, no?

Perhaps medical doctors can acquire a new, widely accepted title that won't lead to law suits aplenty. But in absence of that, no regardless of the historical origins of the term, someone working in a hospital shouldn't be able to call themselves "Dr." because they have a PhD.
 
Perhaps medical doctors can acquire a new, widely accepted title that won't lead to law suits aplenty. But in absence of that, no regardless of the historical origins of the term, someone working in a hospital shouldn't be able to call themselves "Dr." because they have a PhD.

ok. I disagree. Especailly if that person has a Ph.D in a field related to medicine and other clinical practice. I'm quite confident people like Psychologist would laugh at your assertion that they do not have the right to refer to themselves as a Doctor when their coursework and time invested in study is just as consuming and rigours, if not more (It's a higher ranking degree than md) as that of a physicians course work.

If I am recalling correctly the laws prohibit anyone from posing and falsely claiming they are a physician or Medical doctor - they don't prohibit you from using your earned title.
 
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ok. I disagree. Especailly if that person has a Ph.D in a field related to medicine and other clinical practice. I'm quite confident people like Psychologist would laugh at your assertion that they do not have the right to refer to themselves as a Doctor when their coursework and time invested in study is just as consuming and rigours, if not more (It's a higher ranking degree than md) as that of a physicians course work.

If I am recalling correctly the laws prohibit anyone from posing and falsely claiming they are a physician - they don't prohibit you from using your earned title.

I couldn't care less which is more time consuming or rigorous. The feels over your title don't matter. In a hospital setting many patients don't have any idea about the differences in educational achievement and it's dangerous to confuse them over ego.
 
I couldn't care less which is more time consuming or rigorous. The feels over your title don't matter. In a hospital setting many patients don't have any idea about the differences in educational achievement and it's dangerous to confuse them over ego.

Placating public ignorance is not an excuse to rob people of their title. It's also hyperbolic to assume that a Doctor of Pyschology would put themselves in a posistion where they are being confused with a physician.

Flippantly dimissing the amount of work required, and life time required, to earn a ph.d is absurd.
 
Placating public ignorance is not an excuse to rob people of their title. It's also hyperbolic to assume that a Doctor of Pyschology would put themselves in a posistion where they are being confused with a physician.

Flippantly dimissing the amount of work required, and life time required, to earn a ph.d is absurd.

But I'm not. I stated in a particular setting it's not appropriate to title yourself a doctor so your feelings aren't hurt at the expense of the understanding of the patient, where yes, they understand that to mean medical doctor.
 
People with a medical degree are referred to as "Doctor" in Britain too, but rarely as a "physician". "Nurse" is a legally protected title whereas doctor, curiously is not. Nevertheless, a nurse with a PhD will use that title when formality requires it.

Here's one, cleverly photographed earlier. Dr. Peter Carter is Chief Exec. of the RCN, the biggest nursing union in the world.

Peter-Carter-714780.JPG
 
But I'm not. I stated in a particular setting it's not appropriate to title yourself a doctor so your feelings aren't hurt at the expense of the understanding of the patient, where yes, they understand that to mean medical doctor.

It's more likely that your feelings are hurt since you are only one trying to make this personal.

The setting doesn't matter. Obviously a doctor in a clincal field of study, but who is not a physician, has the obligation to clarify what they are a doctor of before proceeding, but that individual still has every right to introduce themselves as a doctor. Communication is key - placating mass ignorance is idiotic.
 
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No, this has nothing to do with Obamacare so retract your claws.

I have for a very long time, as have many others, referred to physicians as "Doctors". However, as a college student who is now more aware of degree and the titles that come with them - I now know that a Doctor isn't necessarily a "Doctor" and a "Doctor" is not always, technically, a Doctor.

So here is a thread on a nursing site regarding their right as a nurse to refer to themselves as a Doctor if they have earned, through rigurous study and invested time, a doctrates in Nursing Practice ( A degree that allows them to act in some capacities as a physician)

Can you be called "Doctor" with a PhD in Nursing? - pg.5 | allnurses

An articulate quote from one Dr. Nurse -



Now this is a MD forum discussing the same topic. Skim through it if you like but the overall sentiments there are - "No only we physicians get to be called 'Doctors'"
Doctor of Nursing Practice? | Student Doctor Network

Now the title Ph.D predates the academic established field of Medical Practice. Being a Doctor of any field and referring to yourself as a Doctor was thing before physicians stepped into town. From what I can gather physicians in America, since outside of the US physicians are often referred to as just that physicians, started referring to themselves as Doctors to gain more repsect for a field of study that at the time wasn't being as respected as it should be.

Though physicians are skilled, vital, and educated people - I don't believe they have the right to monopolize the title Doctor, especially when many physicians do not have a Doctrates in the first place. Granted as language has evolved the word Doctor now includes physician as a definiton, but I don't believe that addition in meaning should trump the original and still applicable meaning of -



In a nutshell if you have a Doctrates in Economy - You are a doctor.
If you have a doctrates in English Literature - You are a doctor. And you have every right to refer to yourself by your earned titled.

Anyone who has a doctorate may use the title if they work in academia. Lawyers have doctorates, but they generally don't use that title, as it would be misleading, and therefore, unethical. There is no reason a nurse who has a doctorate should not be called 'doctor' but she should let her patients know she is a nurse.
 
Why else would you get a doctorate other than to be called doctor?
 
It's more likely that your feeling are hurt since you are only one trying to make this personal.

Personal? You're banging on about how PhD's work harder than medical doctors.

The setting doesn't matter. Obviously a doctor in a clincal field of study, but who is not a physician, has the obligation to clarify what they are a doctor of before proceeding, but that individual still has every right to introduce themselves as a doctor. Communication is key - placating mass ignorance is idiotic.

Okay. So how has that aided the patient in any way? Do you think it made them feel better or you feel better? Do you think medical doctors use the title in that setting because of personal gratification or because it's required?
 
Why else would you get a doctorate other than to be called doctor?

Cos you're a specialist in a particular field of academia? Y'know, you're good at something and want to contribute further.
 
Personal? You're banging on about how PhD's work harder than medical doctors.
Some, if not many, do. There's a difference in Ph.D and MD. The Ph.D being the larger of the two degrees. A Physician with a doctrates is held at a higher esteem than a Physician with only an MD. To earn a Ph.D you literally have to take the established knowledge in your field of study and add something new to it - your disseration. That's no easy feat.



Okay. So how has that aided the patient in any way?
It's not about whether it aids the patient - there are many formalities, even in the hospital setting, that serve no purpose other than to be proper. What it's about is respecting people's earned title.

Do you think it made them feel better or you feel better?
Don't know. Don't care. It's matter of correctly referring to someone by what they are. If they are a doctor, then they are a doctor.

Do you think medical doctors use the title in that setting because of personal gratification or because it's required?
It's not required. Many doctors introduce themselves simply by Mr. and the their name. A doctor does not have to refer to their self as doctor.
 
I chose it depends on the setting. If someone asks "Is there a doctor in the crowd?" they are not likely seeking (or expecting) an expert in French literature to step forward and help them. On the other hand, if your bank teller addresses you as Mr.Zinthaniel then feel free to correct (impress?) them with your super-cool title. ;)
 
I chose it depends on the setting. If someone asks "Is there a doctor in the crowd?" they are not likely seeking (or expecting) an expert in French literature to step forward and help them. On the other hand, if your bank teller addresses you as Mr.Zinthaniel then feel free to correct (impress?) them with your super-cool title. ;)

I have no doctrates. It's just a discussion that I find interesting. As far settings go, obviously context matters - and therefore being a smartass when someone is clearly looking for a medical doctor is juvenile.
 
Some, if not many, do. There's a difference in Ph.D and MD. The Ph.D being the larger of the two degrees. A Physician with a doctrates is held at a higher esteem than a Physician with only an MD. To earn a Ph.D you literally have to take the established knowledge in your field of study and add something new to it - your disseration. That's no easy feat.

Yeah, I've done both. The MD is the harder feat. Sorry. If the PhD were held in higher esteem this discussion wouldn't occur.


It's not about whether it aids the patient - there are many formalities, even in the hospital setting, that serve no purpose other than to be proper. What it's about is respecting people's earned title.

It should be about the patient in a hospital setting.

Don't know. Don't care. It's matter of correctly referring to someone by what they are. If they are a doctor, then they are a doctor.

So it's a pride issue if it's simply about you and not the patient.
It's not required. Many doctors introduce themselves simply by Mr. and the their name. A doctor does not have to refer to their self as doctor.

Yes. It is legally required. 'Mr.' is for surgeons.
 
Yeah, I've done both. The MD is the harder feat. Sorry. If the PhD were held in higher esteem this discussion wouldn't occur.

That's a beautiful and subjective point you just made. However your going to have to excuse the Doctors of Quantum Physics for laughing in your face.




It should be about the patient in a hospital setting.
Right and a Clinical doctor properly introducing themselves as a doctor of whatever field they are a doctor of has every right to do so. It harms no one.


So it's a pride issue if it's simply about you and not the patient.
Again you try to make this personal. It's truly hilarious, because I don't even have an associates degree in any field.


Yes. It is legally required. 'Mr.' is for surgeons.
There is no law, in this country at least, that requires Physicians to introduce themselves as doctor. Many doctors don't.
 
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I have no doctrates. It's just a discussion that I find interesting. As far settings go, obviously context matters - and therefore being a smartass when someone is clearly looking for a medical doctor is juvenile.

I think that, while advanced education is wonderful, titles are ridiculous but feel free to argue the subject further. ;)
 
As a holder of a non-MD but having a professional doctorate in Pharmacy, it's clear that there is a time and a place to use the word 'Doctor' sad a title, and there are even more times and places to not use it.

Hospitals are one- unless you clarify that you are NOT a physician.
 
Hospitals are one- unless you clarify that you are NOT a physician.

I've included this point in my response to Ben. A NP has the right to introduce themself as a Doctor, if they so choose, but ofcourse they must clarify what they are a doctor of. The same applies to any other field in the clinical setting. Pyschologist... etc
 
I've included this point in my response to Ben. A NP has the right to introduce themself as a Doctor, if they so choose, but ofcourse they must clarify what they are a doctor of. The same applies to any other field in the clinical setting. Pyschologist... etc

But I will say... in reality, its generally not worth it. Patients often dont hear it, they get confused, and calling yourself doctor really just tends to confuse things. In my experience, the people who do that are either totally insecure about their role or arrogant egotists.

And with a PhD, that gets even more confusing in the health care setting. The best advice (and the one that I've given to students for decades) is just dont bother with the title unless its a professional function. Students call me doctor, which is fine, and colleagues at formal conferences certainly do the same, or in introductions, but realistically, the only people who use the title in everyday use are boors. By everyday use, I mean introducing yourself as "Dr. and Mrs" to a neighbor, or at a social event, etc. And almost no PhDs outside of a health care field would EVER use the title doctor unless it was in a professional capacity.
 
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