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Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

Do you agree with this womans comments against radical Islam?

  • Im a right leaning American, yes.

    Votes: 18 46.2%

  • Im a left leaning American, yes.

    Votes: 10 25.6%

  • Im not American, yes.

    Votes: 3 7.7%

  • Im a right leaning American, no.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Im a left leaning American, no.

    Votes: 6 15.4%

  • Im not American, no.

    Votes: 2 5.1%
  • Total voters
    39
Wiggen said:
Why is it that every post you make, regardless of the subject, turns into a bash of Obama? EVery frickin' post. Congratulations.
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It obvious, I don't have Nixon to kick around any more.

Also nobody was killed during the Watergate break in.
 
US Conservative said:
A video wont do it, if videos were the standard we wouldnt need actual research, would we? Show me that both are comparing apples to apples and we can go from there. But if we are merely picking videos to make points thats shaky ground. In any case, its still a massive number.
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It's a Gallup Report. I don't see how that's untrustworthy.

If my math is correct thats still something like 120 million. Meaning its a effing huge number, which still makes her case.
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No it doesn't, because regardless of her cited statistic, which was not correct, the religion of those who identify with radical Islam is not relevant. How many Americans would support war in the name of "Judeo-Christian values?" You and I both know that answer would be a significant amount of them.

And you owned the ME comment until you started dancing about the number including those elsewhere in asia, which is NOT what you said.

Be up front, theres no need to hide, though liberals never seem to want to do that.
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I posted something that was incorrect. It was late at night, and I probably shouldn't have been trying to debate that late in the first place. I apologize. Is that what you were looking for?
 
US Conservative said:
I agree with this and frankly dont know many people who fully agree with ANY parties political platform. But I can look back at the opinions and beliefs and opinions I have and plot them out approximately as left or right (and in a few cases, frankly both sides).

Im not asking for an exhaustive self examination, Im asking for you to look across the spectrum of your beliefs and roughly plot them out. Its rare that they are truly all over the map, much as a centrist who is truly EXACTLY in the middle is rare.

Incidentally, the reason I word poll choices the way I do is to gather general insight into some of these issues, at least as far as they are seen across the spectrum. If we water it down with a million choices it becomes less useful. This isnt a research paper.
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I've had a couple of people on this forum say that I'm all over the map. :shrug:
 
SocialDemocrat said:
The poll doesn't tell us how many have favorable opinions of Al Qaeda, and how many didn't know/didn't care. I agree that that's alarming, but it's relatively inconsistent with everything else I've seen.
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PEW does the best global research on this, and they do it every year. If Pew and someone else disagree, Pew is probably right.

I think you meant Palestinian Muslims.
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On that you are correct, mea culpa.

89% of Pakistani Muslims were opposed to suicide-bombing. ;)
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Sort of - they are opposed to suicide bombing targeting fellow civilians and particularly fellow Muslims (that's a big divide within the Islamist community).

But when there is an election, it is the Islamists who win.

In addition, 64% of Palestinians said they were concerned about Islamic extremism, according to the poll, which conflicts with the question about suicide-bombers.
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The ability of people to simultaneously depend on people who worry us shouldn't be that surprising. See: US foreign policy towards Iranian Qods Forces, in Iraq v. everywhere else.
 
mbig said:
Early interview with my Friend Brigitte Gabriel at Duke:




I posted her vids as early as 2004/5
Brigitte Gabriel: Maronite Lebanese, Video - Christian Forums


The problem here is the use/meaning of 'radical'.
Certainly 25% of Muslims aren't "terrorists" .. the old strawman we see in this string and in the rigged youngturk youtube in the post above mine.
Terrorists would be under 1%.

But how many are Fundamentalist? Literalist? Is that "radical?
If we use those terms the way we use it on Christians it would be a healthy Majority.
The same healthy Majority that supports Sharia worldwide and elected the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, with the more "Radical" Salafis second. Between them 70%.
Salafis, Coincidentally (Not), won 25% in 'moderate' Egypt!
Do you consider the MB "radical"? Salafis?
So her claim is Not at all off base.
Many Muslims and Muslim govts financially support terrorists radicals: Saudi, Pakistan, Hamas charities, etc.

Christians are persecuted and Cleansed in Most Muslim countries by their peoples AND Governments.

So 'radical'? Would you call Falwell/Robertson Radical? Because I would say about 2/3++ of Muslims are at least that 'radical'.
Then, of course, you have the problem of Literal or Radical to What?

Being Literal to the NT would cause what counterproductive behavior exactly? Teaching creationism instead of evolution?
Being literal to the Koran, OTOH, has many Violent repercussions we do see worldwide.
People die Every day in the NAME of Islam/it's scripture.
What would Falwell proscribe for Adultery, Counseling? While a Majority of Muslims support Stoning to Death for Adultery as prescribed by Sharia.

A Christian Fundamentalist is a missionary, a Muslim Fundamentalist Kills him.
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Outstanding post, might I ask how you met her?
 
US Conservative said:
Thats an idiotic video. I know lefties think Young Turks are brilliant, but we have different standards.
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Cenk may have provided colourful commentary, but the video of Brigitte getting trampled by an actual expert (who happens to be a Muslim) speaks for itself.
 
Phys251 said:
One should not throw stones in glass houses. (I mean that for America in general, not you specifically.)
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When was the last time we were decapitating people or cutting their fingers off for voting.
 
Amadeus said:
Cenk may have provided colourful commentary, but the video of Brigitte getting trampled by an actual expert (who happens to be a Muslim) speaks for itself.
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Im sorry, I think Middle eastern Christians who were bombed and shot at and burned by the "religion of peace" know plenty. You dont get to pick who says what.
 
US Conservative said:
Outstanding post, might I ask how you met her?
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I wrote to her at her website ACT for America after seeing one of her vids.
It used to be just her site.
Her first vid was a speech at Left Wing Columbia U, of all places. Can't find it, It would be 10 yrs old now and was on her site for a while but no more.
It was a heart-wrenching but heart-warming speech too; mainly defending Israel and her personal journey.
Columbia's faculty infamous: Edward Said, Khalidi, etc.
An Arab woman with the strongest defense of Israel I have ever seen. I'll keep looking for it.
I call/called her 'my Hero'.

She wrote back and we became fast friends. We share similar opinions of Islam. Hers are a bit harsher and less numeric than mine, she's passionately involved because of her difficult but amazing life.
We met in person soon after.
Since then she's made hundreds of appearances nationwide, wrote a book or two, and become a Fox News commentator.

That's her husband doing the interview above.
Where she lives is a secret for the same reason as many other critics of Islam.
ie, Reformer Irshad Manji lives in a 'hardened' house in Toronto.

In fact, women may have bigger gonzagas than men when it comes to hitting Islam.
Bardot and the Brillant Oriana Fallaci come to mind.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/67405-fallaci-write-europe.html
 
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US Conservative said:
Im sorry, I think Middle eastern Christians who were bombed and shot at and burned by the "religion of peace" know plenty.
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So what is the basis of her expertise, aside from being a Middle East Christian?

Gabriel is critical of Islam and believes that "the degraded state of Arab societies is caused by Islam",[3] and that Arab Muslims are "lagging behind" because of social and religious values.[4] She considers "Islamic terrorists" simply as devout followers of Islam,[7] following an example set by Muhammad's behavior.[5][6] According to the New York Times, she portrays radical Islam as "thoroughly bent on destruction and domination" and her message is anti-Islam.[1]

Stephen Lee, a publicist at St. Martins Press for Gabriel's second book, has called her views "extreme",[30] and Deborah Solomon of the New York Times Magazine, who interviewed Gabriel in August 2008, described her as a "radical Islamophobe".[34] According to Clark Hoyt from The New York Times, over 250 people wrote in to protest that label in the days that followed.[30]

Gabriel is critical of Americans who "find all sorts of things wrong with America", who "badmouth and put down our culture, government, and country", while having "never experienced life in an oppressive culture or under an oppressive leadership such as is found in the Middle East."[33] She believes that Americans should "acknowledge that our Western culture is better than others."[29]

In viewing America as "a powerful and great nation" possessing "superior culture and values", Gabriel sees the entitlements that American Western culture has bestowed through "the Judeo-Christian value system" and the ideals of the Founding Fathers, who "worked to establish rights for the individual, rights that did not exist under other forms of government at that time."[35]

According to Gabriel, since Radical Islam views the destruction of Israel alongside the United States as "a parallel strategic objective",[36] she therefore sees the survival of Israel as being of paramount importance as a vanguard of Western culture and as "the only Western-style nation in the Middle East, one that Arabs despise, feel threatened by, and vow to destroy."[35]

In a symposium held in January 2009 titled "Homegrown Jihadis" by FrontPage Magazine, she stated Islam itself "promotes intolerance and violence", and that "Moderate Muslims must organize and engage those enlightened, educated and westernized Muslims in the community to begin a dialogue to discuss the possibility of reform in Islam just as Christianity and Judaism have been reformed."[37]
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...


When Gabriel was invited to speak as part of a lecture series organized by Duke University's Jewish community in October 2004, many in attendance were angered by her referring to Arabs as "barbarians." The Freeman Centre for Jewish Life at Duke University later apologized for her comments.[20] Following her speech at women's campaign event for the Jewish Federation of Ottawa (JFO) in November 2008, many in attendance registered their protests, leading Mitchell Bellman, president and CEO of the JFO, to write a letter in which he acknowledged that Gabriel made, "unacceptable gross generalizations of Arabs and Muslims," distancing his organization from her views.[34]

In 2007 at the Christians United For Israel annual conference, Gabriel delivered the following speech:

The difference, my friends, between Israel and the Arab world is the difference between civilization and barbarism. It's the difference between good and evil [applause].... this is what we're witnessing in the Arabic world, They have no soul, they are dead set on killing and destruction. And in the name of something they call "Allah" which is very different from the God we believe....[applause] because our God is the God of love.
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:lol:
 
mbig said:
I wrote to her at her website ACT for America after seeing one of her vids.
It used to be just her site.
Her first vid was a speech at Left Wing Columbia U, of all places. Can't find it, It would be 10 yrs old now and was on her site for a while but no more.
It was a heart-wrenching but heart-warming speech too; mainly defending Israel and her personal journey.
Columbia's faculty infamous: Edward Said, Khalidi, etc.
An Arab woman with the strongest defense of Israel I have ever seen. I'll keep looking for it.
I call/called her 'my Hero'.

She wrote back and we became fast friends. We share similar opinions of Islam. Hers are a bit harsher and less numeric than mine, she's passionately involved because of her difficult but amazing life.
We met in person soon after.
Since then she's made hundreds of appearances nationwide, wrote a book or two, and become a Fox News commentator.

That's her husband doing the interview above.
Where she lives is a secret for the same reason as many other critics of Islam.
ie, Reformer Irshad Manji lives in a 'hardened' house in Toronto.

In fact, women may have bigger gonzagas than men when it comes to hitting Islam.
Bardot and the Brillant Oriana Fallaci come to mind.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/67405-fallaci-write-europe.html
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Both of my parents lived and worked in the ME. My father in Cairo at the American university and my mother at the Kuwait City American school in the 70's. They met in minnesota at the end of that decade. My father is Greek Orthodox and my mother Catholic-and the stories they tell are horrifying. Things that aren't mentioned or known here-there is truly no frame of reference.

Gabriel's experiences reflect some of the stories I heard growing up. How muslims treat people in that region. Im listening to her interview now, and I frankly enjoy her passion.

Being a woman and of middle eastern origin she has a shield against claims of being non-pc, racist, etc. Good stuff.
 
Amadeus said:
So what is the basis of her expertise, aside from being a Middle East Christian?

:lol:
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I don't see a Single refutation of Anything she said in that entire excerpt, just PC Invective.

I also didn't see you challenge anything I said when parsing "radical" etc.
You just Paste up stuff.
You know NOTHING about Islam and unlike me, you are non-conversant.

thereligionofpeace.com
Islamophobe (is-slahm-o-fohb) - A non-Muslim who knows more than they are supposed to know about Islam.

Here's my post on the topic from the last page.
You didn't/couldn't challenge it because it's simply true and she's simply right.

mbig said:
Early interview with my Friend Brigitte Gabriel at Duke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1QGyosnwRI

I posted her vids as early as 2004/5
Brigitte Gabriel: Maronite Lebanese, Video - Christian Forums

The problem here is the use/meaning of 'radical'.
Certainly 25% of Muslims aren't "terrorists" .. the old strawman we see in this string and in the rigged youngturk youtube in the post above mine.
Terrorists would be under 1%.

But how many are Fundamentalist? Literalist? Is that "radical?
If we use those terms the way we use it on Christians it would be a healthy Majority.
The same healthy Majority that supports Sharia worldwide and elected the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, with the more "Radical" Salafis second. Between them 70%.
Salafis, Coincidentally (Not), won 25% in 'Moderate' Egypt!

Do you consider the MB "radical"? Salafis?
So her claim is Not at all off base.
Many Muslims and Muslim govts financially support terrorists radicals: Saudi, Pakistan, Hamas charities, etc.

Christians are persecuted and Cleansed in Most Muslim countries by their peoples AND Governments.

So 'radical'? Would you call Falwell/Robertson Radical? Because I would say about 2/3++ of Muslims are at least that 'radical'.
Then, of course, you have the problem of Literal or Radical to What?

Being Literal to the NT would cause what counterproductive behavior exactly? Teaching creationism instead of evolution?
Being literal to the Koran, OTOH, has many Violent repercussions we do see worldwide.
People die Every day in the NAME of Islam/it's scripture.
What would Falwell proscribe for Adultery, Counseling? While a Majority of Muslims support Stoning to Death for Adultery as prescribed by Sharia.

A Christian Fundamentalist is a missionary, a Muslim Fundamentalist Kills him.
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I support Islam n that fact that Working Women are a Deleterious Element on Society, in the form of Society/Family unit (more the later) in general extent.

A maid, despite the foolish Economic Justification, does not equate to the Love nor Attention nor Airt of a Mother.
 
cpwill said:
PEW does the best global research on this, and they do it every year. If Pew and someone else disagree, Pew is probably right.
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Okay, so let's assume that one polling source is 100% correct. 13% said they have favorable opinions of Al Qaeda. That's nowhere near what the video stated.

On that you are correct, mea culpa.



Sort of - they are opposed to suicide bombing targeting fellow civilians and particularly fellow Muslims (that's a big divide within the Islamist community).

But when there is an election, it is the Islamists who win.

The ability of people to simultaneously depend on people who worry us shouldn't be that surprising. See: US foreign policy towards Iranian Qods Forces, in Iraq v. everywhere else.
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What is that supposed to mean? A Muslim winning an election in Pakistan is just as likely as a Christian winning an election here. And in the last general election, the winning party was the fiscal conservative, right-wing, "pro-American" party.

US Conservative said:
Source, please. Not a video.
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:roll: You started this thread by posting a video.
 
US Conservative said:
Very sharp. But I also included several polls. You DID see those, didn't you? :cool:
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Yes. #IAmThe12Percent :p

Tangentially as of now, 88% of those who voted say they agree with her. How bout them apples?
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21 people on the internet agree with you. Good job.

And back to the original point, the fact that poll results were displayed via video does not invalidate the poll.
 
SocialDemocrat said:
Yes. #IAmThe12Percent :p



21 people on the internet agree with you. Good job.

And back to the original point, the fact that poll results were displayed via video does not invalidate the poll.
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Not with me-with the point of the woman in the video. When its stated so clearly its easy to see why radical islam must be stopped.
It would take you 4 seconds to post the poll results that are covered in the video. Why would you pick this hill to make a stand?
 
US Conservative said:
Not with me-with the point of the woman in the video. When its stated so clearly its easy to see why radical islam must be stopped.
It would take you 4 seconds to post the poll results that are covered in the video. Why would you pick this hill to make a stand?
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I could say the same to you. As I already said, the poll results are presented in the video, in which it is stated that 93% of Muslims did not identify as radicals. But since you want to ignore that, let's look at the poll posted by cpwill earlier in the thread:

Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project

13% have a favorable opinion of Al Qaeda, according to this poll. That's nowhere near what was suggested by the woman in the video. And the vast majority of respondents who have a favorable opinion of Al Qaeda aren't going to take violent action to prove their point.
 
SocialDemocrat said:
I could say the same to you. As I already said, the poll results are presented in the video, in which it is stated that 93% of Muslims did not identify as radicals. But since you want to ignore that, let's look at the poll posted by cpwill earlier in the thread:

Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project

13% have a favorable opinion of Al Qaeda, according to this poll. That's nowhere near what was suggested by the woman in the video. And the vast majority of respondents who have a favorable opinion of Al Qaeda aren't going to take violent action to prove their point.
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I of course assume you compared the SPECIFIC question asked in both polls, and also assured an identical population was sampled. Kindly post that info so you can demonstrate you are comparing apples to apples here. I will wait.
 
US Conservative said:
I of course assume you compared the SPECIFIC question asked in both polls, and also assured an identical population was sampled. Kindly post that info so you can demonstrate you are comparing apples to apples here. I will wait.
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What point are you trying to make? The two polls I cited were from different sources, so of course the population sampled was not identical. We have no idea which poll the lady in the video was citing (she could've just pulled it out of thin air), so there's no way of comparing that either. This argument is becoming frivolous, so please address something other than the validity of the poll, which was originally cited on this thread by a conservative, mind you.
 
SocialDemocrat said:
What point are you trying to make? The two polls I cited were from different sources, so of course the population sampled was not identical. We have no idea which poll the lady in the video was citing (she could've just pulled it out of thin air), so there's no way of comparing that either. This argument is becoming frivolous, so please address something other than the validity of the poll, which was originally cited on this thread by a conservative, mind you.
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YOU made the comment that her findings were inaccurate. Prove it.
My point is if they aren't directly comparable then hanging your hat on the poll results being inaccurate (or her comments to such) isn't credible.

Tell you what, why dont you just post what the actual questions were, so we can see how similar they are. For now lets forget about the sample size and population.

If you cant do the above, what you are really saying is you cant MAKE the argument that her figures are inaccurate. Now, frankly, whichever poll you go with the answers are going to be horrifying to westerners. You know what, but your liberalism compels you to believe some other explanation MUST be the cause.


Im reminded of the story of the liberal who goes to the dentist, and is told he has a bad tooth, to which the liberal replies "yeah, but they arent ALL bad". :doh
 
US Conservative said:
YOU made the comment that her findings were inaccurate. Prove it.
My point is if they aren't directly comparable then hanging your hat on the poll results being inaccurate (or her comments to such) isn't credible.
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I already did. Again, read the results of this poll:
Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project

Tell you what, why dont you just post what the actual questions were, so we can see how similar they are. For now lets forget about the sample size and population.
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"Do you have a favorable or unfavorable view of Al Qaeda?" Again, read the poll that I have already posted. And again, she didn't cite any polls. She pulled the number out of thin air, and I welcome you to try to find a source that backs her up, but, and I cannot emphasize this any more, as we have been stuck on this point for far too long, she did not cite any polls.

If you cant do the above, what you are really saying is you cant MAKE the argument that her figures are inaccurate. Now, frankly, whichever poll you go with the answers are going to be horrifying to westerners. You know what, but your liberalism compels you to believe some other explanation MUST be the cause.
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Read the first part of my post. There is no poll to compare to, because she didn't cite one. And furthermore, I'm not a liberal. Other ideologies than liberalism reject islamophobia.

Im reminded of the story of the liberal who goes to the dentist, and is told he has a bad tooth, to which the liberal replies "yeah, but they arent ALL bad". :doh
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Bad anecdote is bad. Move on.
 
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