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Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face? [W:166]

Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

  • Total voters
    55
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Amadeus said:
I actually do find your answer satisfactory. The fact that you need a laundry list of stipulations for 'redskin' to be socially acceptable speaks volumes.
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Except that I don't. I just gave a list of many situations that the word could be considered acceptable. I'm quite sure that joking around with friends isn't a "laundry list of stipulations". The fact that I gave a list just shows that there are tons of situations in which it could be acceptable. Should I also provide a list in which its not acceptable? Would that satisfy you on that part or would that "speak volumes" also?
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Zyphlin said:
There are native americans who have expressed offense to the notion of the Redskins name being forced or pressured to change. By the logic that "Its not okay to even offend a minority of a minority", there is no right answer because you're going to offend a minority of the minority in some fashion either way.

So what you COULD do is simply deem which minority is more important and suggest the other's opinion shouldn't be the basis for a decision. But then again, once you do that you basically create the basis for logic to suggest that the minority of the minority you actually support shouldn't be the basis for a decision as well.
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My logic doesn't depend on anything relating to football. If it is economically viable to use a Native American as a mascot in the 21st century, have at it.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Kal'Stang said:
The only way to achieve what you are talking about here is to totally ban and get rid of any and all terms regarding race. Including the word "race" itself.
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Nonsense. No one objects to intellectual discussion. Slurs are not the same thing.

Slur =/= race
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
Nonsense. No one objects to intellectual discussion. Slurs are not the same thing.

Slur =/= race
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Who gets to decide that it is a slur? The minority few in the group?
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
Who gets to decide that it is a slur? The minority few in the group?
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History.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

grip said:
social incompetence and phony correctness.
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The latter more than the former, in fact.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
History.
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It was used by the Native Americans themselves... to describe themselves.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
Nonsense. No one objects to intellectual discussion. Slurs are not the same thing.

Slur =/= race
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Actually in the context of your arguement, yes, slurs does equal race. Or are you not talking about racial slurs? What you are proposing can only be achieved by the elimination of the whole concept of race. To make it to where no one considers themselves black, or white, or brown or any other race. IE: We're all human. Which is not a bad thing. It would be wonderful if we would stop seeing "race" and start seeing "humans". Indivdual people can do that. But as a whole we cannot. We're too tribal currently to do so. Perhaps in a couple of hundred years we can get past it. Right now though its nothing more than a pipe dream.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
It was used by the Native Americans themselves... to describe themselves.
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It was used by the majority power as a slur. Whether and how it was manipulated by the minority is irrelevant, as is offense and other personal interpretation.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Kal'Stang said:
Actually in the context of your arguement, yes, slurs does equal race.
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I don't appreciated being portrayed as a strawman. Such childish nonsense is not worth engaging. Let me know when you have at least the slightest clue regarding my position.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
The latter more than the former, in fact.
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Using an issue incorrectly to bolster your ego is a form of incompetence. So they're both accurate descriptions of a similar misconception.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
It was used by the majority power as a slur. Whether and how it was manipulated by the minority is irrelevant, as is offense and other personal interpretation.
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There are instances where natives themselves used it to differentiate... prove it was manipulate upon them.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
I don't appreciated being portrayed as a strawman. Such childish nonsense is not worth engaging. Let me know when you have at least the slightest clue regarding my position.
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:roll: I'm not saying you said that. Feel free to point out where I did. All that I have said is that is the only way to achieve what you want done based on your arguement of wanting to get rid of all positive and negative racial stereotypes.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
There are instances where natives themselves used it to differentiate... prove it was manipulate upon them.
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They did not originate the term, a pejorative. It's like the 'Alaska Eskimos'.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Kal'Stang said:
:roll: I'm not saying you said that. Feel free to point out where I did. All that I have said is that is the only way to achieve what you want done based on your arguement of wanting to get rid of all positive and negative racial stereotypes.
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Getting rid of stereotypes does not require the banning of talk about race. How ridiculous.

You are claiming slurs are inherent to the existence and/or discussion of race. That's messed up.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
They did not originate the term, a pejorative. It's like the 'Alaska Eskimos'.
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Alaskan Eskimos is a slur now? Or am I reading this wrong?
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Kal'Stang said:
Alaskan Eskimos is a slur now? Or am I reading this wrong?
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Eskimo is a slur.

The people did not name themselves that. The name was given to them by others (the majority power) as a degradation. Just like Redskin.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

grip said:
Using an issue incorrectly to bolster your ego is a form of incompetence. So they're both accurate descriptions of a similar misconception.
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Good point...
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Kal'Stang said:
Alaskan Eskimos is a slur now? Or am I reading this wrong?
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Everything is a slur.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
You didn't see 'Heathers'?
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Probably but I don't remember the reference.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Ockham said:
Probably but I don't remember the reference.
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"She" underlined Eskimo in the book with the suicide letter. The idea is no one understood her, they slurred her.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
Eskimo is a slur.

The people did not name themselves that. The name was given to them by others (the majority power) as a degradation. Just like Redskin.
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God. All these terms do not have to have a degrading origin... :roll:

Eskimo (n.) Look up Eskimo at Dictionary.com1580s, from Danish Eskimo or Middle French Esquimaux (plural), both probably from an Algonquian word, such as Abenaki askimo (plural askimoak), Ojibwa ashkimeq, traditionally said to mean literally "eaters of raw meat," from Proto-Algonquian *ask- "raw" + *-imo "eat." Research from 1980s in linguistics of the region suggests this derivation, though widely credited there, might be inaccurate or incomplete, and the word might mean "snowshoe-netter." See also Innuit. Eskimo pie "chocolate-coated ice cream bar" introduced 1921.

Online Etymology Dictionary
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
Getting rid of stereotypes does not require the banning of talk about race. How ridiculous.
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Why ridiculous? Can you think of any other way in which to get rid of racial stereotypes, both positive and negative?

ecofarm said:
You are claiming slurs are inherent to the existence and/or discussion of race. That's messed up.
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Slurs are not. Racial stereotypes are.
 
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