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Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face? [W:166]

Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

  • Total voters
    55
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Dezaad said:
Your avoidance runs deep. I presented no dilemma at all. A dilemma is not necessary to my point, and you deciding that there is a false bifurcation is just you deepening your avoidance.
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Intellectual Integrity my ass. What pathetic idiocy, unless you don't understand what a False Dilemma is...

False Dilemma / Bifurcation Fallacy

The bifurcation fallacy is committed when a false dilemma is presented, i.e. when someone is asked to choose between two options when there is at least one other option available. Of course, arguments that restrict the options to more than two but less than there really are are similarly fallacious.


Logical Fallacies» False Dilemma / Bifurcation Fallacy

I have repeatedly shown that there is at least one other option available. If you try to weasel your way out again I am done with you. Feel free to post your tripe again... or you could grow a pair and man up for a change.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

SocialDemocrat said:
No. Regardless of whether or not redskin is a slur, I don't call people by their race 99% of the time.
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Unless I am confused by your intent... I don't call people by their race 100% of the time. I doubt there are many outside Redneck Hillbilly Land who do.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Lovebug said:
Its really that simple, isn't it?
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Not according to Deezad... don't let him get his hooks into you.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

I guess it depends on the context.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
I don't believe offense matters. The question is: do racial slurs (or stereotypes as some would argue) harm society. The answer is yes. On this ground I support removing the name, not on grounds of offense.

I find offense to be irrelevant.
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How does the name Redskins harm society...??
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
Unless I am confused by your intent... I don't call people by their race 100% of the time. I doubt there are many outside Redneck Hillbilly Land who do.
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Well, I can't think of a social situation where I would call someone white, black, etc, but I just wrote 99% in case I wasn't thinking of something. But yeah, I essentially meant I'm not going to refer to someone by their race.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

SocialDemocrat said:
Well, I can't think of a social situation where I would call someone white, black, etc, but I just wrote 99% in case I wasn't thinking of something. But yeah, I essentially meant I'm not going to refer to someone by their race.
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I thought it might be that but wasn't sure because you never know, right? ;)
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
How does the name Redskins harm society...??
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Perhaps you should make an attempt to understand social perspectives.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
Perhaps you should make an attempt to understand social perspectives.
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I have... thanks. Now, will you answer the question please?
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
I have... thanks. Now, will you answer the question please?
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From a social perspective, to include the maximum achievement of potential from each teammate, the mere existence of even positive racial stereotypes is a burden. To advocate stereotypes be they positive, negative or racist, is harming ourselves.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
From a social perspective, to include the maximum achievement of potential from each teammate, the mere existence of even positive racial stereotypes is a burden. To advocate stereotypes be they positive, negative or racist, is harming ourselves.
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I disagree... it is harming those that feel that stereotypes are worth caring about and those people only. Society moves along just fine regardless of their thoughts.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Bodhisattva said:
I disagree... it is harming those that feel that stereotypes are worth caring about and those people only. Society moves along just fine regardless of their thoughts.
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It supports injustice, which will always exist within society but should nonetheless be minimized.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

It would never occur to me to refer to anyone as a "redskin". That's the reason this is a controversy. It's a word that once referred to people, but that doesn't have that connotation anymore. Nowadays when people think of "redskin", they think of a sports team. This is an example of political activists dusting off the history books in a search for things to be offended by.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Zyphlin said:
Care to ask the question in a more objective or neutral fashion than the pointedly biased and prejudiced manner from the very start?
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No, I think my question is fine.

Your very question PRESUMES that it perpetuates a racial stereotype. Forgive me if I don't feel like answering a blowhard style question from someone who talks out of one side of his mouth about not telling people what they should be offended by, and then attempts to convince people to ask biased and slanted questions.
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If you don't feel it is a racial stereotype to refer to people as red-skin or yellow-skin, I'm not going to take any effort to convince you. I've stated why I find it offensive.

Really, I get that sense a lot from your posts.
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If you have a problem with my posts, feel free to respond to them and I'll address you head-on. Otherwise I don't care what you think of my posts in general.

1. It is offensive to SOME Native Americans now, which I've never suggested otherwise.
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Then we're done, aren't we? If you want to offend a minority, even a segment of a minority, that's on you.
 
Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?
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It would seem rude and intemperate... two things I try to avoid.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Dezaad said:
No, actually, I am not trying to apply one context to all contexts. I specifically narrowed the context to non-joking contexts because people were avoiding the point by bringing up joking contexts. There are other contexts where it might be acceptable, but, in general, you can't call a Native American a redskin without it being offensive.
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People weren't avoiding anything. The OP lacked actual context. It's only natural for people to fill in the missing context.

Dezaad said:
My sample dialog was an oversimplified dialog to illustrate how race might come up in a non joking manner, but it isn't the only way, and is not essential to my point. To solely focus on it when responding to my post is simply a dishonest way to respond. A person who cannot respond to a person's point obviously knows on some level they are afraid to admit something.
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Except that race wouldn't come up in such a dialog. When introduced most people either say "hello" or "hello mr./mrs. <insert last name here>. No one says "Oh hey!, A redskin!". Not because it is or isn't offensive. But because from childhood we are trained so much in saying "hello" or "hello mr./mrs. <insert last name>" that it is ingrained into us. It's pretty much become instinct to greet that way. As such you provided a false context. Something that simply wouldn't happen due to our training in greetings.

Dezaad said:
It is ridiculous to try to construe a person's post as something other than it is, and then respond to that. Gee, I think there is indeed a named fallacy for it or something.
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Please. We all know why these Redkins threads are starting up. Don't even pretend to claim that these threads are nothing more than attempts to portray the word "redskins" as having nothing but a negative connotation no matter what. And don't pretend that you're not trying to do the same.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
It supports injustice, which will always exist within society but should nonetheless be minimized.
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I agree with that but not with it harming "society" as a whole.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Kal'Stang said:
People weren't avoiding anything. The OP lacked actual context. It's only natural for people to fill in the missing context.
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And you can fill in that missing content with avoidance, or you can fill it in with substance. Would you use redskin to describe a Native American in the presence of another Native American? If you would, then great. If you wouldn't, then why?

There, I fixed the thread.
 
Goshin said:
It would seem rude and intemperate... two things I try to avoid.
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Get ready... he is about to accuse you of capitulation since you didn't answer his False Dilemma the way he wants you to.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

ecofarm said:
From a social perspective, to include the maximum achievement of potential from each teammate, the mere existence of even positive racial stereotypes is a burden. To advocate stereotypes be they positive, negative or racist, is harming ourselves.
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The only way to achieve what you are talking about here is to totally ban and get rid of any and all terms regarding race. Including the word "race" itself. That's nothing but a pipe dream.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Amadeus said:
And you can fill in that missing content with avoidance, or you can fill it in with substance. Would you use redskin to describe a Native American in the presence of another Native American? If you would, then great. If you wouldn't, then why?

There, I fixed the thread.
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No. Because it is impolite to talk to, or about, a person that you don't know/barely know without using their name, ma'am, miss or sir.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Amadeus said:
And you can fill in that missing content with avoidance, or you can fill it in with substance. Would you use redskin to describe a Native American in the presence of another Native American? If you would, then great. If you wouldn't, then why?

There, I fixed the thread.
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Nope, you didn't fix the thread. Because again, context is missing. Am I talking about the NFL's history in which native americans were proud to use the name "Redskins"? Are we talking about history in general? Are we talking about the perspective of one person from olden times to describe a native american? What is THAT context? Are we all friends? Am I angry? Happy? Mischivious? I could go on and on. You're wanting a question answered in a vacuum. If you're refering to Dezaads question I already answered it. Twice. Sorry if the answer wasn't satisfactory to you.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

There are native americans who have expressed offense to the notion of the Redskins name being forced or pressured to change. By the logic that "Its not okay to even offend a minority of a minority", there is no right answer because you're going to offend a minority of the minority in some fashion either way.

So what you COULD do is simply deem which minority is more important and suggest the other's opinion shouldn't be the basis for a decision. But then again, once you do that you basically create the basis for logic to suggest that the minority of the minority you actually support shouldn't be the basis for a decision as well.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

In this instance context is everything. The name was never meant to be demeaning or the Team wouldn't have called themselves something derogatory or slanderous, that doesn't make sense. Many of the names of teams were meant to be kitschy, unique and fun, connotative of fierceness.

That people get offended at this decades later shows a level of social incompetence and phony correctness.
 
Re: Would you call a Native American "redskin" to their face?

Kal'Stang said:
Nope, you didn't fix the thread. Because again, context is missing. Am I talking about the NFL's history in which native americans were proud to use the name "Redskins"? Are we talking about history in general? Are we talking about the perspective of one person from olden times to describe a native american? What is THAT context? Are we all friends? Am I angry? Happy? Mischivious? I could go on and on. You're wanting a question answered in a vacuum. If you're refering to Dezaads question I already answered it. Twice. Sorry if the answer wasn't satisfactory to you.
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I actually do find your answer satisfactory. The fact that you need a laundry list of stipulations for 'redskin' to be socially acceptable speaks volumes.
 
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