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Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs?

  • Yes

    Votes: 31 42.5%

  • No

    Votes: 42 57.5%
  • Total voters
    73
ChrisL said:
Okay, but that doesn't answer my question. Do you confront fat people when you see them?
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I told my boss to his face "You know, with your body type, well, we have different body types."

I also have told several girls that I'm sorry you're not in shape enough for me and asked them to leave. They left.

So yeah, I do.

 
Ryan5 said:
I told my boss to his face "You know, with your body type, well, we have different body types."

I also have told several girls that I'm sorry you're not in shape enough for me and asked them to leave. They left.

So yeah, I do.

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Oh my, so impressive. :lol:
 
ChrisL said:
Oh my, so impressive. :lol:
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I have to admit, considering my boss doesn't have the ability to fire me..

It was absolutely badass. His blubbery face went so red. It was great. I loved it.

=)
 
Ryan5 said:
I have to admit, considering my boss doesn't have the ability to fire me..

It was absolutely badass. His blubbery face went so red. It was great. I loved it.

=)
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That doesnt make you a bad ass, it makes you something else. It also frames the irrelevance of your position quite well.
 
ChrisL said:
I'm sorry. I think you are wrong. We've had a similar program here in Massachusetts that went into effect in 2006 I believe. I don't smoke, but I have also Never been asked if I smoke. My premiums are not any higher this year than last either. They are exactly the same.

The way it works is everyone has to buy insurance. If you cannot afford insurance, insurance will be provided for you through the state's various programs, depending upon where you fall in the poverty guidelines. Those who do NOT buy insurance are punished on their tax returns by a certain percentage (I know this because I had to pay a $600 penalty on my taxes one year when I did not purchase health insurance).

The idea is that EVERYONE participates to bring premiums down for everyone.
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The ins. in Massachusetts is very unpopular, and very expensive, I read. Obamacare is based on it, as we know. EXCEPT I guess your state doesn't stick it to the older citizens and charge more for smokers. Under Obamacare, there are two areas that ins. cos. are allowed to charge higher premiums to: Smokers, those over 50 (and the premiums can increase for each year you are over 50 - even if you're much healthier than a 40 year old, as I am).

The IDEA may be for everyone to participate, but not everyone is participating, and premiums went UP, not down, for almost everyone. Those articles saying costs went down for insureds? They're including the subsidized insureds. To me, the premium is STILL $600/month (or whatever), even if you get Aunt Minnie or Uncle Sam to pay part of it for you. For most of us, we have to pay the $600 (compared to maybe $400 last year).
,
No, not everyone has to buy insurance. Someone has to buy insurance FOR you, whether its your employer, Aunt Minnie, Uncle Sam, your state, or whatever.

This year vs last year doesn't apply to Massachusetts, of course, since you had Obamacare before (only it wasn't called that). Your states' premiums skyrocketed years ago. The same situation exists with Maine, I believe, who installed an Obamacare type program in the late 90's (at which time premiums skyrocketed). Those who suffered the high premiums years ago are like the old wives tale about mothers who gave birth: With time you forget the pain.

If you are fine with this, please send me a check every month for $250. I have to pay for that obese man who eats pizza and drinks beer....he needs to buy a silver Obamacare plan (subsidized), so I have to pay $250 extra for the high claims he'll be turning in (for his diabetes type 2), and we all have to kick in for the subsidies. That extra $250 means that I can't afford anything but the bottom of the bronze plans. So that the pizza guy can get his silver plan. Wadda country, huh? Reward an unhealthy lifestyle with better health care at a lower cost, and punish the healthy lifestyle people who have managed to dig their way out of poverty, like myself. Wadda country!
 
You guys are just really mad because you're fatties.
 
radcen said:
So, if I understand you correctly, the charts are infallible and should be followed to the letter... or number. There are no legitimate mitigating factors for anybody. One either falls in the good zone, or they don't. Period. Am I interpreting your statement correctly?
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There are just not as many as you'd claim from "legitimate exceptions" (which is bogus, there are very few of these to begin with).

 
Ryan5 said:
Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs?
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Yes, just as smokers, drinkers and other high risk categories should as well.
 
The question is vague.

Higher medical costs meaning what?

Higher insurance premiums? The answer is DEFINITELY 'yes'...obviously if you are fat then your future health costs will probably be far higher then someone who is fit.

Higher costs for medical procedures/drugs? Obviously not.
 
DA60 said:
The question is vague.

Higher medical costs meaning what?

Higher insurance premiums? The answer is DEFINITELY 'yes'...obviously if you are fat then your future health costs will probably be far higher then someone who is fit.
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agree
 
DA60 said:
The question is vague.

Higher medical costs meaning what?

Higher insurance premiums? The answer is DEFINITELY 'yes'...obviously if you are fat then your future health costs will probably be far higher then someone who is fit.

Higher costs for medical procedures/drugs? Obviously not.
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Being overweight doesnt always mean that insurances will have to fork out more money. Future health costs dont even exist if the person dies early. Or perhaps becomes fit?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Being overweight doesnt always mean that insurances will have to fork out more money. Future health costs dont even exist if the person dies early. Or perhaps becomes fit?
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Same thing with smoking. Smokers don't always get smoking related illnesses, but yet they have to pay more. If the obese person gets fit, then they wouldn't be obese and wouldn't pay more.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Being overweight doesnt always mean that insurances will have to fork out more money. Future health costs dont even exist if the person dies early. Or perhaps becomes fit?
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If the person dies early or becomes fit, then their medical insurance rate will go down.

Maybe even down to zero.
 
Are body mass indexes not already taken into consideration? Like smoking and drinking? Such people already have higher rates, at least in some policies.
 
Dittohead not! said:
If the person dies early or becomes fit, then their medical insurance rate will go down.

Maybe even down to zero.
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One year of cancer treatment or open heart surgery would cost more than all my health care since birth (I'm 53) and it will cost more than most healthy people's health care for 20 years. So no, no savings that way.
 
Lursa said:
Are body mass indexes not already taken into consideration? Like smoking and drinking? Such people already have higher rates, at least in some policies.
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They have higher life insurance rates, not higher health insurance rates.
 
tres borrachos said:
I was diagnosed with Type 2 not long ago. Here's my history:

1. My father was diagnosed with diabetes in 1969. Heavily insulin dependant.
2. I was diagnosed with Gestational Diabetes with all of my pregnancies, and was insulin dependent with all 3.
3. I was told by my OB that given my family history as well as the Gestational Diabetes, I had a 90% change of developing Type 2 by the time I was 50.
4. I have been underweight most of my life due to hyperthyroidism which I was diagnosed with in the early 1990s.

I am not heavy (just the opposite), I watch what I eat, I exercise religiously, and I still went full out diabtes which couldn't be controlled with diet & exercise (I am now on Lantus insulin).

You are 100% spot on that Type 2 can be genetic, and the realilty is, my diabetes during pregnancy all but assured the reality of me ending up as a diabetic.
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Yes, there are times when its unavoidable, but for the majority of cases it is a lifestyle disease. Moreover, even if clinical obesity was not a risk factor for type 2 diabetes, it still would result in hundreds of billions of dollars if medical costs nationally every year due to increased heart disease rates, increased cancer rates, and increased joint deterioration rates.
 
Lursa said:
Are body mass indexes not already taken into consideration? Like smoking and drinking? Such people already have higher rates, at least in some policies.
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In the vast majority of policies they are not taken into consideration. Few group plans take them into consideration, and Medicare doesn't either.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Being overweight doesnt always mean that insurances will have to fork out more money. Future health costs dont even exist if the person dies early. Or perhaps becomes fit?
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Granted, clinical obesity does take years off of life expectancy, but it only averages 3 years. The problem is that for decades prior, clinical obesity results in much higher healthcare costs due to increased heart disease rates, increased cancer rates, joint deterioration - in particular knee joint degeneration, and mobility issues.

An active person with a health weight and good diet doesn't typically live more than a few years longer than someone that is obese. However, their quality of life in the later decades of their life is significantly better and they typically don't have the chronic conditions that are extremely expensive to treat.
 
The Man said:
Same thing with smoking. Smokers don't always get smoking related illnesses, but yet they have to pay more. If the obese person gets fit, then they wouldn't be obese and wouldn't pay more.
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Dittohead not! said:
If the person dies early or becomes fit, then their medical insurance rate will go down.

Maybe even down to zero.
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SouthernDemocrat said:
Granted, clinical obesity does take years off of life expectancy, but it only averages 3 years. The problem is that for decades prior, clinical obesity results in much higher healthcare costs due to increased heart disease rates, increased cancer rates, joint deterioration - in particular knee joint degeneration, and mobility issues.

An active person with a health weight and good diet doesn't typically live more than a few years longer than someone that is obese. However, their quality of life in the later decades of their life is significantly better and they typically don't have the chronic conditions that are extremely expensive to treat.
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Study: Obesity Responsible for 18 Percent of U.S. Deaths “The impact of obesity on U.S. mortality appears somewhat more serious than suggested by existing findings,”


BMI: Bogus Measurement or Valid Health Indicator? You Decide | The Daily PT

"The BMI has actually been referred to as “mathematical snake oil”. Just like snake oil, it’s not a one size fits all formula. In fact, some would argue that it’s not an effective formula at all."

Why BMI is inaccurate and misleading - Medical News Today

"Every few months the same comment is made by experts "BMI is flawed". The news hits the headlines, everybody agrees, and then all goes quiet for a while."

"BMI was devised in the 1830s by Lambert Adolphe Jacques Quetelet (1796-1874), a Belgian mathematician, sociologist, statistician and astronomer."

Being medically overweight or obese is actually rather subjective. Couple that with the fact that it is also subjective whether extra weight in ALL cases is unhealthy then you end up with charging someone more for a service based on subjective data is a scam. True that some people who are what is considered overweight are unhealthy but then so are people who are considered normal weight. So far in this thread proponents of charging fat people more money have only been pointing at people because they deemed them fat. Look at all those silly photos shared that accused people of being fat. It was like grade school bullies gone amuck in this thread. They assume that everyone that they deem to be fat are the cause of rising healthcare insurance rates and rising medical costs.

Some people are fat some people are not. Many who are fat are unhealthy many who are not fat are also unhealthy. Should people be fat? I agree that being fat is a bad choice (if indeed its a choice and not a symptom). No doubt being obese for most people is unhealthy. There is plenty of data that shows it. But being underweight is unhealthy as well. Also many other factors indicate a person is unhealthy. Subjective...

But as far as generalizing the public and deeming fat people the cause of rising fees and charges for medical care and insurance policies is a witch hunt. It boils down to the philosophy of insurance rather than direct contracts or direct services. A third man between those seeking medical care and those providing it. Insurance is a collective pool of money that is supposed to pay for medical care that would not always be affordable for most people. It counts on there being more people not using insurance funds than those using it. The use of the funds is what is important not the conditions that could cause more use of funds. preventive care is awesome but then running to the doctor because you have a splinter or any of the many pathetic things that people run to the doctor for and get a script for a drug that they dont need is probably a larger suck on those funds than fat people.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Study: Obesity Responsible for 18 Percent of U.S. Deaths “The impact of obesity on U.S. mortality appears somewhat more serious than suggested by existing findings,”


BMI: Bogus Measurement or Valid Health Indicator? You Decide | The Daily PT

"The BMI has actually been referred to as “mathematical snake oil”. Just like snake oil, it’s not a one size fits all formula. In fact, some would argue that it’s not an effective formula at all."

Why BMI is inaccurate and misleading - Medical News Today

"Every few months the same comment is made by experts "BMI is flawed". The news hits the headlines, everybody agrees, and then all goes quiet for a while."

"BMI was devised in the 1830s by Lambert Adolphe Jacques Quetelet (1796-1874), a Belgian mathematician, sociologist, statistician and astronomer."

Being medically overweight or obese is actually rather subjective. Couple that with the fact that it is also subjective whether extra weight in ALL cases is unhealthy then you end up with charging someone more for a service based on subjective data is a scam. True that some people who are what is considered overweight are unhealthy but then so are people who are considered normal weight. So far in this thread proponents of charging fat people more money have only been pointing at people because they deemed them fat. Look at all those silly photos shared that accused people of being fat. It was like grade school bullies gone amuck in this thread. They assume that everyone that they deem to be fat are the cause of rising healthcare insurance rates and rising medical costs.

Some people are fat some people are not. Many who are fat are unhealthy many who are not fat are also unhealthy. Should people be fat? I agree that being fat is a bad choice (if indeed its a choice and not a symptom). No doubt being obese for most people is unhealthy. There is plenty of data that shows it. But being underweight is unhealthy as well. Also many other factors indicate a person is unhealthy. Subjective...

But as far as generalizing the public and deeming fat people the cause of rising fees and charges for medical care and insurance policies is a witch hunt. It boils down to the philosophy of insurance rather than direct contracts or direct services. A third man between those seeking medical care and those providing it. Insurance is a collective pool of money that is supposed to pay for medical care that would not always be affordable for most people. It counts on there being more people not using insurance funds than those using it. The use of the funds is what is important not the conditions that could cause more use of funds. preventive care is awesome but then running to the doctor because you have a splinter or any of the many pathetic things that people run to the doctor for and get a script for a drug that they dont need is probably a larger suck on those funds than fat people.
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So then you must think that if you get speeding tickets you should not be charged more for auto insurance?

You must also think that if you have a wood shake roof on your home in an area prone to wildfires you should not be charged more for home owners insurance?

You must also think then that if you get a dui, you should not have to carry an SR-22 policy?

You seem to have a very flawed understanding of how insurance works.
 
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