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Is Redskin a slur? [W:282]

Is Redskin a slur?


  • Total voters
    96
Indians, Braves, Blue Devils(are we attacking smurfs here?), are all fine because they are not racial descriptors.

White crackers? seriously? That doesn't even make sense... we're talking about racial epithets. If Kraft had a picture of a white slave owner on their Saltine boxes then sure but... wtf?

So it's offensive to acknowledge the color of one's skin?

Does this mean that going forward we can expect to never hear Obama described as a "black man" again, since apparently it's a slur?
 
It's not that offensive a term. This situation is really about whether the PC crowd can get their way on this issue, because if they do, then what's to stop them on calling on all kinds of renaming projects for other teams, companies, logo's etc? It's actually an attack on free speech and the beginning of the thought police.
 
If we are going to break out the definition of "redskin" why don't we do the same for "slur?"

"an insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation."

I'm going to say that some key words are "About someone." The connotations of the word redskin when used in a sports context is not a slur because there is no insinuation or allegation made about native americans that is likely to offend them (sports nicknames are chosen for positive reasons, not negative ones). I've yet to hear what insinuations or negative allegations are associated with the word "redskin" when used in a sports context that can apply to native americans and is likely to offend them or damage their reputation in some way. In today's day and age where everything offends someone, everything can be a slur depending on usage.

In many ways, the hubbub around this nickname is more damaging to their reputation than the nickname itself. It gives them a reputation of foolishness in that they are willing to spend gobs of money fighting a trivial sports nickname while they have much more serious problems they should be focusing on.
 
Clearly you don't know how that name came about.
Redskins is a nick name too.
Clearly, you don't know how that name came about. Despite the fact that twice now in this thread Perotista has provided the history of the name of the team.

So here it is a third time, courtesy Perotista and Wikipedia.

The Washington Redskins were originally known as the Boston Braves. In 1933, co-owner George Preston Marshall changed the name to the Redskins, possibly in recognition of the then–head coach William Henry "Lone Star" Dietz, who claimed to be part Sioux. On July 6, 1933, the Boston Herald reported that "the change was made to avoid confusion with the Braves baseball team and the team that is to be coached by an Indian (Dietz)... with several Indian players."[6] Dietz's ancestry has been questioned by some scholars, as a birth certificate and census records recorded his parents as white. This does not preclude his having had Sioux ancestry as well.[7] In 1933, the Boston Braves moved from Braves Field, which they shared with baseball's Boston Braves, to Fenway Park, already occupied by the Boston Red Sox. John F. Banzhaf III, Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University Law School, cites a newspaper article from 1933 in which Marshall is quoted as saying the name was selected only to save money by not having to change the logo of the Braves, and not to honor Dietz or the Indian players.[8] There was however, no logo on the Braves football uniform of 1932. The Washington Redskins current logo, which was inspired by Native American, Walter Wetzel, former president of the National Congress of American Indians, was introduced in 1972.[9]
 
For those of you who dont think Redskins is a slur, what if you had a team known as the Chinks?

Apparently, the PC era began in 1981, when they were forced to change the name to the Dragons.

And the arguments against it sounded EXACTLY like the arguments I'm hearing above. "its not offensive!", "its a tribute to Peking, China!", "Its a tradition!" "Chinks isnt derogatory - I just think of HS basketball when I think of Chinks!". I remember the furor well. the Chinks had a celebrated basketball championship in the 60s. To this day when you walk into some Pekin, IL, restaurants, you'll see shrines to the team. (not a whole lot of asian people eating in those places, natch).


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Time and place. Context. Important considerations when answering that question.
 
I'm curious what percentage of people think Redskin is a slur separate from whether or not the team's name should be changed.

I think a lot of people are so used to the Redskin name they don't even think of it as a slur because they see it simply as a descriptor of Native Americans or of its heritage and never thought of it as an insult.

According to the dictionary it is.

Redskin: usually offensive
: american indian
Redskin - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
 
I do not think it is possible to separate the two, this whole brouhaha was caused by a federal government agency trying to dictate to a football team to change their name by revoking their patent. If this didn't happen we would not be talking about this and you would not have started your thread. But if it pleases you, I will vacate the thread.

Its impossible to separate the two? what? We're talking about whether a word is a slur, yes the discussion was spurred by the football team obviously. I wanted to isolate the issue of the word to bring light to the fact that it is a slur. If we bring the football team into this then we have to talk about the government, law, etc., which muddies the issue at hand here.
 
Clearly, you don't know how that name came about. Despite the fact that twice now in this thread Perotista has provided the history of the name of the team.

So here it is a third time, courtesy Perotista and Wikipedia.

The Washington Redskins were originally known as the Boston Braves. In 1933, co-owner George Preston Marshall changed the name to the Redskins, possibly in recognition of the then–head coach William Henry "Lone Star" Dietz, who claimed to be part Sioux. On July 6, 1933, the Boston Herald reported that "the change was made to avoid confusion with the Braves baseball team and the team that is to be coached by an Indian (Dietz)... with several Indian players."[6] Dietz's ancestry has been questioned by some scholars, as a birth certificate and census records recorded his parents as white. This does not preclude his having had Sioux ancestry as well.[7] In 1933, the Boston Braves moved from Braves Field, which they shared with baseball's Boston Braves, to Fenway Park, already occupied by the Boston Red Sox. John F. Banzhaf III, Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University Law School, cites a newspaper article from 1933 in which Marshall is quoted as saying the name was selected only to save money by not having to change the logo of the Braves, and not to honor Dietz or the Indian players.[8] There was however, no logo on the Braves football uniform of 1932. The Washington Redskins current logo, which was inspired by Native American, Walter Wetzel, former president of the National Congress of American Indians, was introduced in 1972.[9]
Wow, you read that totally wrong. Being a life long Redskins fan, I know how the name came about. I was talking about the Fighting Irish.
 
The orgin of the word would suggest yes.
 
For those of you who dont think Redskins is a slur, what if you had a team known as the Chinks?

Apparently, the PC era began in 1981, when they were forced to change the name to the Dragons.

And the arguments against it sounded EXACTLY like the arguments I'm hearing above. "its not offensive!", "its a tribute to Peking, China!", "Its a tradition!" "Chinks isnt derogatory - I just think of HS basketball when I think of Chinks!".

View attachment 67168503View attachment 67168504
The arguments in this thread have been rather well sourced but ignored by virtually every posters screaming racial slur. I just posted the actual history of how the teams name came to be two posts up, the third time it has been brought forward in the thread. I also posted earlier the fact that there has only ever been one poll asking the tribal nations if they found the term "red skin" offensive and and 90% said no. Then of course there is the fact that within tribal languages the nations frequently call each other red skins. So essentially the forces for PC "good" just don't care at all about all those inconvenient facts, preferring instead to chant a mantra that the term is offensive. Because they say so.
 
Clearly you don't know how that name came about.
Redskins is a nick name too.

Yeah when I get into a dispute with someone who is Irish I say "whatever fighting Irish" and he's like "yo man that was uncalled for, how could you be so crude". :roll:

No Redskins is the formal name of the team. A nickname is an unofficial title popularly used. Is your legal name CRUE CAB?
 
Wow, you read that totally wrong. Being a life long Redskins fan, I know how the name came about. I was talking about the Fighting Irish.
Yes I did. My bad. However as threegoofs demonstrates, a re-supplication of the actual history of the naming of the Red Skins is in order. Not that such matter a whit to posters of that ilk.
 
The arguments in this thread have been rather well sourced but ignored by virtually every posters screaming racial slur. I just posted the actual history of how the teams name came to be two posts up, the third time it has been brought forward in the thread. I also posted earlier the fact that there has only ever been one poll asking the tribal nations if they found the term "red skin" offensive and and 90% said no. Then of course there is the fact that within tribal languages the nations frequently call each other red skins. So essentially the forces for PC "good" just don't care at all about all those inconvenient facts, preferring instead to chant a mantra that the term is offensive. Because they say so.

OK. Well, the Chinks were named because the town of Pekin was named for Peking, which supposedly is its antipode. And the name Chinks were given in honor of the people in China at the other end of the earth. It was a tribute. So I guess its OK then.
 
So how do you know that the Redskins are intending to "slur" Native Americans?

Read my previous posts, intention means nothing. If we were to use the team name "Niggers" in an intended friendly manner it would not fly, why should Redskin be any different? The reason it isn't a widespread slur is because there are hardly any Natives in the U.S. That is why it has never come up to most people as though don't even know anything about the term other than its a football team name.

I don't think the Redskins team name is intending any ill will whatsoever, in fact I'd say it is intended as an honor and compliment. However it can also be used as a racial slur which creates a conflict.
 
I did feel the need. Yes. Now I'm done. I feel better, and sadly, I don't give a rat's ass how you feel. Sorry. It's just all about me today for me. I have those days.

Thanks for your contribution to the thread.
 
Of course redskins is a slur. I dont see any teams with the name whiteskins or blackskins. I think that all native american names used in sports needed to be changed. Marquette did it. Its not that hard.

The name "Chicago" is derived from a French rendering of the Native American word shikaakwa

Considering how crime and corruption infested Chicago is, they should change their name as it's insulting to Native Americans.
 
OK. Well, the Chinks were named because the town of Pekin was named for Peking, which supposedly is its antipode. And the name Chinks were given in honor of the people in China at the other end of the earth. It was a tribute. So I guess its OK then.
If you insist that something is OK, based upon this wall of gibberish and nonsensical non applicable detour of yours, well that is OK with me. Clearly actually knowing the history of the name in question was crowded out of your mind by your command of the etymology of the word chink. Of course the word we are talking about here is Red Skins. Do try to keep up.
 
So it's offensive to acknowledge the color of one's skin?

Does this mean that going forward we can expect to never hear Obama described as a "black man" again, since apparently it's a slur?

Its offensive to refer to somebody by their skin color. Do you walk up to a coworker or friend and say "hey black face, do you have the paperwork". Do we refer to Obama giving a speech as "black skin is on tv talking?". Yes we refer to him as a black man if it makes sense in context.

Do you guys even think these things through before you post?
 
Thats a ten year old poll.

So if they repeat the poll and the majority of Native Americans say it is, that means you'll change your mind??

Don't know. I'll let ya know when it happens. Though I must say that anyone that continues to poll about a word possibly being a slur is just out to try and make it a slur and as such should probably be discounted. PCness does irritate me. So I might still say no just to spite the PC folks.
 
If you insist that something is OK, based upon this wall of gibberish and nonsensical non applicable detour of yours, well that is OK with me. Clearly actually knowing the history of the name in question was crowded out of your mind by your command of the etymology of the word chink. Of course the word we are talking about here is Red Skins. Do try to keep up.


Im pointing out the parallels. I see its challenging for you to recognize them.

The history of the Chinks was certainly not meant to be a slur - its just what a guy from Pekin would call any oriental back at the turn of the century.

So since the intention was totally innocent, you must be fine with calling a team 'The Chinks', and duly outraged that our PC culture pressured the good people of Pekin (and you dont know how tongue in cheek that phrase is if you havent been to Pekin) to change the name.
 
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