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Is Redskin a slur? [W:282]

Is Redskin a slur?

  • Total voters
    96
Zyphlin said:
My answer is not present. It can be used in a derogatory manner as a slur. It can also be used in a rather neutral and non-slurring manner as well.
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This is absolutley correct. I guess the question here is, in this case was the picking of the name of this team intended as a racial slur? Well as Perotista shared in another thread(http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-mainstream-media/197060-patent-office-cancels-redskins-trademarks-97.html#post1063427301 ) based upon the actual history in question I'm going to stick with my prior answer and say no again.


History[edit]
The Washington Redskins were originally known as the Boston Braves. In 1933, co-owner George Preston Marshall changed the name to the Redskins, possibly in recognition of the then–head coach William Henry "Lone Star" Dietz, who claimed to be part Sioux. On July 6, 1933, the Boston Herald reported that "the change was made to avoid confusion with the Braves baseball team and the team that is to be coached by an Indian (Dietz)... with several Indian players."[6] Dietz's ancestry has been questioned by some scholars, as a birth certificate and census records recorded his parents as white. This does not preclude his having had Sioux ancestry as well.[7] In 1933, the Boston Braves moved from Braves Field, which they shared with baseball's Boston Braves, to Fenway Park, already occupied by the Boston Red Sox. John F. Banzhaf III, Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University Law School, cites a newspaper article from 1933 in which Marshall is quoted as saying the name was selected only to save money by not having to change the logo of the Braves, and not to honor Dietz or the Indian players.[8] There was however, no logo on the Braves football uniform of 1932. The Washington Redskins current logo, which was inspired by Native American, Walter Wetzel, former president of the National Congress of American Indians, was introduced in 1972.[9]
Washington Redskins name controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Amadeus said:
Sure, but that wasn't the question asked in this thread. It was whether or not red skin was a racial slur.
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It can be used as one I suppose just as words like Mexican or Canuck or conservative or liberal or Republican or Democrat or girl or Fox News or Bush supporter or Obama-ite or southerner or yankee or Muslim or Christian or religious or women's lib or many other things can be used as a slur. But to the vast majority of us, we think football when we hear redskin unless we're making up a western story or skit or something in which the phrase fits. Do the vast majority of Americans think badly about Indians/Native Americans when they hear the term? No. I am absolutely confident they do not. Have I EVER heard redskin used as a slur by anybody? Even the most racist people I have ever known? No I have not. Ever. Which is why I think it is a tempest in a teapot, probably created by people hoping to make a name for themselves for some reason or possibly for profit.
 
Verax said:
I'm curious what percentage of people think Redskin is a slur separate from whether or not the team's name should be changed.

I think a lot of people are so used to the Redskin name they don't even think of it as a slur because they see it simply as a descriptor of Native Americans or of its heritage and never thought of it as an insult.
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I know this might be a radical idea, but maybe consulting a dictionary might help.

OED- says its 'dated or offensive'
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/redskin

Merriam Webster- 'usually offensive'

http://i.word.com/idictionary/redskin

Dictionary.com? 'Often derogatory or offensive'

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/redskin

McMillan Dictionary? - 'offensive'

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/redskin


Seems pretty clear to me.

But if they changed the logo to a bowl of mashed potatoes, it would work for me.
 
Soupnazi630 said:
It is no more a slur than Cowboys, or Forty Niners, Or Steelers, or vikings
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"Cowboys" will always be a slur as long as Jerry Jones is the team owner. ;)
 
Threegoofs said:
I know this might be a radical idea, but maybe consulting a dictionary might help.

OED- says its 'dated or offensive'
redskin: definition of redskin in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

Merriam Webster- 'usually offensive'

Redskin - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Dictionary.com? 'Often derogatory or offensive'

Redskin | Define Redskin at Dictionary.com

McMillan Dictionary? - 'offensive'

redskin - definition. American English definition of redskin by Macmillan Dictionary


Seems pretty clear to me.

But if they changed the logo to a bowl of mashed potatoes, it would work for me.
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Threegoofs said:
I know this might be a radical idea, but maybe consulting a dictionary might help.

OED- says its 'dated or offensive'
redskin: definition of redskin in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

Merriam Webster- 'usually offensive'

Redskin - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Dictionary.com? 'Often derogatory or offensive'

Redskin | Define Redskin at Dictionary.com

McMillan Dictionary? - 'offensive'

redskin - definition. American English definition of redskin by Macmillan Dictionary


Seems pretty clear to me.

But if they changed the logo to a bowl of mashed potatoes, it would work for me.
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Before I made the post I actually looked over the dictionaries, encyclopedias, misc. lists of racial epithets and saw that it made an appearance everywhere. I decided to leave it out as I wanted to poll people's opinion rather than start a fight over whether it is technically a slur (obviously it is). The goal here was to see how many people didn't think it was a slur to gain insight into why so many think the Redskins name is just fine. I was curious whether this was standard anti-government response or standard pc response, or standard racial response. It appears to be all three which is why that thread is over 100 pages now in two days?!?!
 
tres borrachos said:
Except "ni&&er" (I hate that word) doesn't refer to any physical traits. It's a derogatory term exclusively. Native Americans did have reddish skin, so the term came about because of the physical reality of their being. They (the Native Americans) referred to the English as "the white man". It would appear that each original group was merely referring to the color of the others' skin, and not in any derogatory way.

I completely agree with your last sentence.
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This is almost exactly what I would have written... so thanks for saving me time! :lol:
 
Phys251 said:
IDK man; that dude's ego is too big even for their new stadium.
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But he fills the stadium year-round--shrewd businessman--though IDK who paid for his stadium..
That's what all of these stadiums are about--not to mention the apparel.

I've given them permission for the Washington NRAs.
Then they could have a special gun each month--think of the sales.
A special gun appreciation week also.

Like the Washington AK-15s or semi-automatics--maybe even a special Washington NAACPs for Black folks.
Who could disagree with the Washington Shotguns, since that is a base formation.

I mean first they take away your Washington Bullets in the NBA--now they take away all yer bullets in RL.

Since the Bullets went to the Wizards, maybe the Redskins could go to the Fairies, with the new rules for cussing .
 
I never even thought of N/A's when I'd hear Redskins!
 
Verax said:
(obviously it is).
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Obviously it's not...not in the broad and absolute way you're presenting it. Your definitions don't even back up that assertion. It CAN be used in an offensive and slurring manner, but it's not it's only use. And the reality is the way it's "most often" actually used is not something dictionaries will actually acknowledge...which is the same reason the potential ethnic slur "yankee" makes no mention of a baseball team despite the majority of times in the modern day that word is used is in reference to the sports team. The Washington Redskins are utilizing the "dated" original meaning and intented version of the word as a neutral, at worst, referential word for Native Americans similar to how the NAACP and the United Negro College Fund continue to use a dated referential word for African Americans.
 
Verax said:
I'm curious what percentage of people think Redskin is a slur separate from whether or not the team's name should be changed.

I think a lot of people are so used to the Redskin name they don't even think of it as a slur because they see it simply as a descriptor of Native Americans or of its heritage and never thought of it as an insult.
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Because its not an insult.
 
Zyphlin said:
Obviously it's not...not in the broad and absolute way you're presenting it. Your definitions don't even back up that assertion. It CAN be used in an offensive and slurring manner, but it's not it's only use. And the reality is the way it's "most often" actually used is not something dictionaries will actually acknowledge...which is the same reason the potential ethnic slur "yankee" makes no mention of a baseball team despite the majority of times in the modern day that word is used is in reference to the sports team. The Washington Redskins are utilizing the "dated" original meaning and intented version of the word as a neutral, at worst, referential word for Native Americans similar to how the NAACP and the United Negro College Fund continue to use a dated referential word for African Americans.
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Is nigger a slur? You can use it in a polite manner with your friend to say good morning, "what's good my nigger?". Does that make it no longer a slur?

Yes yankee is a slur too. However it doesn't refer to skin color and is not racial. In modern times it is no longer accepted to use racial descriptors and or stereotypes with people. Also Native Americans lost their land in a bloody and devastating conflict in which they were shamed. If you were a white person < 1% of the population in a country dominated by Native Americans that took your land a couple hundred years ago and had a team called the Oda-She-Nae Whitefaces or the Yazzie Gringos could you see it possibly as a slur?

As I said earlier technically it is a slur whether you like it or not. However is it offensive? I don't know, some say yes, some say no, I guess it depends who you ask.
 
I am just glad that the issue has hit the senate floor. My god those guys must have been so bored with nothing else to work on.
 
Verax said:
Is nigger a slur? You can use it in a polite manner with your friend to say good morning, "what's good my nigger?". Does that make it no longer a slur?

Yes yankee is a slur too. However it doesn't refer to skin color and is not racial. In modern times it is no longer accepted to use racial descriptors and or stereotypes with people. Also Native Americans lost their land in a bloody and devastating conflict in which they were shamed. If you were a white person < 1% of the population in a country dominated by Native Americans that took your land a couple hundred years ago and had a team called the Oda-She-Nae Whitefaces or the Yazzie Gringos could you see it possibly as a slur?

As I said earlier technically it is a slur whether you like it or not. However is it offensive? I don't know, some say yes, some say no, I guess it depends who you ask.
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Clearly nigger is a term of endearment. Ever heard any rap lyrics or watched any movies.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Because its not an insult.
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Go up to a group of Natives and say "hey redskins what's up" and see what happens. If you don't have any living in your area go up to a group of blacks and say "yo black skins, whaaasup!". If that fails find a group of Asians and call 'em yellow faces, see how it goes.
 
tres borrachos said:
Except "ni&&er" (I hate that word) doesn't refer to any physical traits.
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Research is your friend:

Nigger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nigger is a noun in the English language. The word originated as a neutral term referring to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger ("color black").[1] Often used disparagingly, by the mid 20th century, particularly in the United States, it suggested that its target is extremely unsophisticated. Its usage had become unambiguously pejorative, a common ethnic slur usually directed at blacks of Sub-Saharan African descent.
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You simply are way out of your league when it comes to discussions that demand a person actually know the origin of terms.
 
Verax said:
Go up to a group of Natives and say "hey redskins what's up" and see what happens. If you don't have any living in your area go up to a group of blacks and say "yo black skins, whaaasup!". If that fails find a group of Asians and call 'em yellow faces, see how it goes.
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Hyperbole and a strawman.
I have a good friend that is Seminole. I don't call him Redskins any more than he calls me pale face. But if we did, we would probably laugh at each other.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Clearly nigger is a term of endearment. Ever heard any rap lyrics or watched any movies.
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So only the well known slurs are not ok?
 
CRUE CAB said:
Hyperbole and a strawman.
I have a good friend that is Seminole. I don't call him Redskins any more than he calls me pale face. But if we did, we would probably laugh at each other.
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How is it a strawman? You say its not a slur and not an insult, so what is wrong with referring to somebody as a Redskin then? Do you think your Seminole friend would like a stranger to refer to him as Redskin?
 
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