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America is or is not a Christian Nation.

Is America a Christian Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 26 25.7%
  • No

    Votes: 75 74.3%

  • Total voters
    101
All you said was basically "there were people from the long-ago-time who put "In God We Trust on our currency." You're not only not specifying what authority or basis those people had for doing so, you couldn't even bothered to say who they were. Why even get up in the morning if that's the sort of argument you're going to make?


That's so idiotic, because you were too lazy to even read the quote within the post you're referencing.

Below is the information again, and if you bother following the link I also provided in that post, it will enlighten you more.

You know, your response wouldn't look so ignorant if you bothered trying to be something more than just insulting.

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:

http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx
 
Yes I agree Christianity has left it's mark, but I don't believe it's a permanent mark - and current trends show that this country is redefining it's self as it always has. We are becoming more and more secular - many laws based in arbitrary social standards related to Christianity are being appealed. New generations are not only turning their back on faith but are actively fighting agaisnt strict traditional religious views on social standards.

Feel better now, maybe even superior?
 
That's so idiotic, because you were too lazy to even read the quote within the post you're referencing.

Below is the information again, and if you bother following the link I also provided in that post, it will enlighten you more.

You know, your response wouldn't look so ignorant if you bothered trying to be something more than just insulting.

What was your point when you said this?

It may not be Christian but the formers of the nation had some religious ideas and symbols in mind. "In God We Trust" is still used on our currency.
 
What was your point when you said this?

The forefathers, seriously tried to separate church and state, and create a secular government, many of them having fled religious persecution. But there are many instances of religion, within the government in symbolism and words. It was just impossible for religious people to remove all connotations of their beliefs from every aspect of federal development.

In the justice system they swear on the bible. We used to say the "Pledge of Allegiance" in school everyday. The Supreme Court Building had a frieze of Moses holding the Ten Commandments. The great Seal of the United States says, Annuit Coeptis, which translates roughly to “Providence favors our undertakings”. The whole Seal is basically a bunch of Latin and images favoring the divine.

In the Declaration of Independence it states "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". I'm not going to attempt to list every little religious reference within the whole system, but it was certainly a part of daily life thru most of our earlier growth.

Are you seriously that unaware of American history and the influences that religion, particularly Christianity had on our country? This whole current generation thinks we always worshiped commerce, war and materialism but it's simply not true. We were a nation of great ideas about fairness, equity, law and patriotic pride. We made the best products in the world at one time, and sought the highest endeavors and achievements that our imaginations could inspire. We won more medals at events than any other nation in the Olympics.

It's sad that you lumped yourself in with the younger and less informed on your historic opinions?

The issue of religious freedom has played a significant role in the history of the United States and the remainder of North America. Europeans came to America to escape religious oppression and forced beliefs by such state-affiliated Christian churches as the Roman Catholic Church and the Church of England. That civil unrest fueled the desire of America’s forefathers to establish the organization of a country in which the separation of church and state, and the freedom to practice one’s faith without fear of persecution, was guaranteed. That guarantee was enshrined in the First Amendment to the Constitution (text) as, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...”
History of Religion in America


IN 1639, a group of New England Puritans drafted a constitution affirming their faith in God and their intention to organize a Christian Nation. Delegates from the towns of Windsor, Hartford, and Wethersfield drew up the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, which made clear that their government rested on divine authority and pursued godly purposes. The opening lines express the framers' trust in God and their dependence on his guidance: "Forasmuch as it hath pleased the All-mighty God by the wise disposition of his divyne providence so to Order and dispose of things, . . . [and] well knowing where a people are gathered togather the word of God requires that to mayntayne the peace and vnion of such a people there should be an orderly and decent Government established according to God, to order and dispose of the affayres of the people." Moreover, the aim of the government so instituted was religious: "to mayntayne and presearue the liberty and purity of the gospell of our Lord Jesus which we now professe, as also the disciplyne of the Churches, which according to the truth of the said gospell is now practised amongst vs."1 Like their neighbors in Massachusetts Bay, the Connecticut Puritans determined to plant a "Christian Commonwealth," what Governor John Winthrop hoped would become a "City upon a Hill" that would inspire believers everywhere as a model Christian Nation.2

Those Puritan Fathers exemplify two of the most enduring views of colonial America: America as a haven of religious freedom, and America as a Christian Nation. First, the Puritan settlers had fled England, where Archbishop William Laud had persecuted them because they refused to subscribe to religious beliefs and practices that they deemed to be unscriptural. Now in the American wilderness, they were free to worship according to the dictates of their consciences, governed only by the rule of God's word. And, second, those Puritan Fathers organized a Christian State. They established their Congregational churches as the official religion of Connecticut, supported by tax revenues and defended by the coercive arm of government. The churches defined "heretics," and the state punished them, even to the point of executing those found guilty of "direct, express, presumptuous, or high-minded blasphemy." Moreover, citizenship in the state was directly tied to one's religious faith. The authors of the Fundamental Orders meant for only godly Christians to rule, an intention embodied in the oath of the governor, which committed the chief magistrate to govern "according to the rule of the word of God."3
Sample Chapter for Lambert, F.: The Founding Fathers and the Place of Religion in America.
 
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The forefathers, seriously tried to separate church and state, and create a secular government, many of them having fled religious persecution. But there are many instances of religion, within the government in symbolism and words. It was just impossible for religious people to remove all connotations of their beliefs from every aspect of federal development.

In the justice system they swear on the bible. We used to say the "Pledge of Allegiance" in school everyday. The Supreme Court Building had a frieze of Moses holding the Ten Commandments. The great Seal of the United States says, Annuit Coeptis, which translates roughly to “Providence favors our undertakings”. The whole Seal is basically a bunch of Latin and images favoring the divine.

In the Declaration of Independence it states "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". I'm not going to attempt to list every little religious reference within the whole system, but it was certainly a part of daily life thru most of our earlier growth.

Are you seriously that unaware of American history and the influences that religion, particularly Christianity had on our country? This whole current generation thinks we always worshiped commerce, war and materialism but it's simply not true. We were a nation of great ideas about fairness, equity, law and patriotic pride. We made the best products in the world at one time, and sought the highest endeavors and achievements that our imaginations could inspire. We won more medals at events than any other nation in the Olympics.

It's sad that you lumped yourself in with the younger and less informed on your historic opinions?

Wow, that actually makes me feel kind of sad. Our country doesn't seem to be doing all that well lately.
 
A "nation" describes the people that live within a defined territory. The Cherokee Nation was anything but a theocracy... for example.
The nation isn't Christian than. It contains a huge selection of the world's religions. Based on your statement the nation can only be called a majority Christian nation.
 
Not sure about that. It could be like the UK, Denmark, or Finland. Or Thailand. All of which have state religions. None of those are theocracies or dictatorships. It would probably continue like now, with some Christians arguing for charity for the poor and the sick and measures against income inequality while other Christians emphasize other themes in the Bible.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/rachelmccleary/files/state_religion.pdf
that would violate our law. Thus removing the constitution from our republic.
 
Is the U.S. a Christian nation? If you want to judge that on the number that associate with claiming the Christian faith as their belief, then I guess one could conclude that the answer is yes. But the Founders never pushed one religion over another at the federal level but there is plenty of evidence individual states did. Madison and Jefferson's correspondence urging states not to do so make that very clear. The Founders were wise in that they realized without religious freedom it would hinder many from seeking religious instruction. You see by not claiming any one religion it allowed all to seek their own path of enlightenment. Why was this so important? Because almost all religions promote morality and that was one essential element needed in assuring our free republic be a success. You can't set up a government for the people, by the people without morality....period. There are so many sects within the Christian faith, too many to count yet before many of them were ever formed there were established synagogues in this country. To prove that point is a letter from George Washington to the Jews in Newport assuring them that under this new government they would be protected.

George Washington Letter
 
Wow, that actually makes me feel kind of sad. Our country doesn't seem to be doing all that well lately.

Nah, we're still a great nation with a higher quality of life than ever before. Some of the richness and depth have been replaced, with more superficial ideas and materialism. But change for the better or worse is always a constant. For example; we're obsessed with technology far more than ever before, because corporations use it as an income source. The benefit for us is that we're sharing more information, developing more energy sources, growing more food efficiently and living in an environment with greater intellectual potential. There's always trade-offs and rebalancing in nature.
 
The forefathers, seriously tried to separate church and state, and create a secular government, many of them having fled religious persecution. But there are many instances of religion, within the government in symbolism and words. It was just impossible for religious people to remove all connotations of their beliefs from every aspect of federal development.

In the justice system they swear on the bible. We used to say the "Pledge of Allegiance" in school everyday. The Supreme Court Building had a frieze of Moses holding the Ten Commandments. The great Seal of the United States says, Annuit Coeptis, which translates roughly to “Providence favors our undertakings”. The whole Seal is basically a bunch of Latin and images favoring the divine.

In the Declaration of Independence it states "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". I'm not going to attempt to list every little religious reference within the whole system, but it was certainly a part of daily life thru most of our earlier growth.

Are you seriously that unaware of American history and the influences that religion, particularly Christianity had on our country? This whole current generation thinks we always worshiped commerce, war and materialism but it's simply not true. We were a nation of great ideas about fairness, equity, law and patriotic pride. We made the best products in the world at one time, and sought the highest endeavors and achievements that our imaginations could inspire. We won more medals at events than any other nation in the Olympics.

It's sad that you lumped yourself in with the younger and less informed on your historic opinions?

No one has doubted that religious people since the founding of the country have peppered varying laws, vows, buildings (and yes, currency) with Christian symbolism and dogma. Christians are the majority, it's going to happen. But all of that is meaningless in the face of the Constitution which severely restricts just how far Christians can combine government with Christianity. That should be more telling than some official here or there who was able to slip "God" into the pledge of allegiance or the ten commandments into some courthouse.

Oh, and as the founding fathers were largely deists and secularists influenced by the Enlightenment of the era, the term "Creator" was used as it could apply to anything...Judeao-Christian in specific, monotheistic in general, polytheistic, evolution...anything at all.

You've also attached Christianity to "great ideas about fairness, equity, law and patriotic pride. We made the best products in the world at one time, and sought the highest endeavors and achievements that our imaginations could inspire. We won more medals at events than any other nation in the Olympics." If you're going to own those, then you also have to take responsibility for everything else: slavery, misogyny, the extermination of the Native Americans, the exploitation of the Chinese in the building of the railroads and Jim Crowe. If Christianity spawned this country as you'd like to believe, then it spawned those as well. It's a package deal. Let me put it in another way: if Christianity were so great, it would have stopped those terrible things rather than allowing them to go on for as long as they did.
 
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You have it wrong even now. Whether the cup is 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 or completely filled with jello it is indeed a cup of jello. However, it is not a jello cup, which would it was a cup created of jello. It's also a cup of air, maybe whipped cream, sprinkles and whatever else is in the cup. BTW I've seen red skies, orange skies, even seen the green flash once. Oh yeah and star strewn black skies.

None of that changes the fact that it's 3/4 of a cup of jello.
 
To say our laws are entirely secular is not quite true. I can't legally buy beer here until noon on Sundays (so I try to stock up on breakfast beer beforehand).

Our laws can be compared to tenants of many other religious beliefs. Should we ignore all other morality and their influences for one exclusive "brand"?
 
The forefathers, seriously tried to separate church and state, and create a secular government, many of them having fled religious persecution. But there are many instances of religion, within the government in symbolism and words. It was just impossible for religious people to remove all connotations of their beliefs from every aspect of federal development.

In the justice system they swear on the bible. We used to say the "Pledge of Allegiance" in school everyday. The Supreme Court Building had a frieze of Moses holding the Ten Commandments. The great Seal of the United States says, Annuit Coeptis, which translates roughly to “Providence favors our undertakings”. The whole Seal is basically a bunch of Latin and images favoring the divine.

In the Declaration of Independence it states "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights". I'm not going to attempt to list every little religious reference within the whole system, but it was certainly a part of daily life thru most of our earlier growth.

Are you seriously that unaware of American history and the influences that religion, particularly Christianity had on our country? This whole current generation thinks we always worshiped commerce, war and materialism but it's simply not true. We were a nation of great ideas about fairness, equity, law and patriotic pride. We made the best products in the world at one time, and sought the highest endeavors and achievements that our imaginations could inspire. We won more medals at events than any other nation in the Olympics.

It's sad that you lumped yourself in with the younger and less informed on your historic opinions?

Those ideals of fairness, equality/equity, law, and patriotic pride are not Christian ideals exclusively. Christianity did not even "invent" those ideals. It simply took on those ideals (at least to a degree) as part of its foundations, likely due to influence by those cultures and even certain religions that came before it. Plus, ideals were adapted throughout time to go with the Bible. Freedom was not fully pushed by the Bible, not for absolutely every human being at least.

As for those other religious mentions you made, they come from many sources, and not all due to just Christianity. The laws of Moses on court houses are allowed because generally they go alone with the idea of laws for the people. Many court houses have other laws given to people that weren't Christian (in fact, the laws of Moses were not Christian laws initially, they can just as easily be claimed by Jews). A judge or other representative in this country does not have to swear on the Bible. It is symbolic, mainly of our roots of being from some groups of people who were hardcore about their religion and involved it in law. The Pledge of Allegiance cannot be required to be recited in school, especially parts referencing God (which was just added relatively recently in our history). The money thing is simply something that would cost more to change than it is generally worth at this point in time. Many people believe in a "Creator" without being Christian.
 
that would violate our law. Thus removing the constitution from our republic.

Not really. Just an amendment to the current constitution at most or a tweaking of judicial opinions at the least. Besides, you simply posed a hypothetical that was wrong-a country can have religious freedom in a real sense and still have a state religion. Many countries now do so. And they are not theocracies or dictatorships. They are, like the US, multicultural and multi-religious yet have a state religion that plays an extremely insignificant role.
And it is so ironic to me. The US Constitution reads like a Unitarian document, written mainly by people who were Unitarians or leaned Unitarian such a Madison. Jefferson himself stated that he thought that within a generation most young people would be Unitarians.
I rejoice that in this blessed country of free inquiry and belief, which has surrendered its conscience to neither kings or priests, the genuine doctrine of only one God is reviving, and I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian
Thomas Jefferson and religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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A Special thread for Bodhisattva.

The United States is not a Christian Nation. That is my stance.

A nation is defined by it's government and it's people - not only by it's majority. To refer to it as A Christian Nation is to falsely represent many Americans.

Our Country grants freedom for all religions and lack thereof. Grand Cathedrals, churches, Temples, Mosques, and Conventions for Non Believers can be found all over this country. All of which are given equal respect and right to exist.
Religion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Our Government and thus our laws are entirely secular. There are a vast array of laws that directly contradict the teachings in the bible and thus God's will (i.e. laws regarding homosexuals, divorce, and other things considered blasphemous). Making the term "Christian Nation" ever more strange and obviously misplaced.

There is no legitimate reason to refer to this Nation as Christian.

I am a strong Christian, and America should not - must not - be a "Christian" nation. Why? Because the beliefs I have are significantly out of step with the great majority of mainstream "Christianity" (for one thing, we strongly oppose the idea of the 'trinity' - Jesus never was and never will be God, nor is He a "mighty God" as the JW's believe)...and I don't want other religions (including mainstream "Christianity") to be teaching my kid religion in school or placing pressure on him to believe as they do.

To put it another way, how would most mainstream "Christians" feel if, say, all of a sudden their town became mostly Mormon, and the schools started holding Mormon-themed presentations and plays, and the children were expected to take part in Mormon-themed events at school? I think we all know where this would lead - and it wouldn't be pretty.

It's not simply a matter of whether America should be a "Christian" nation...but more of which kind of "Christian" nation America would have to be...because there's many different kinds of beliefs when it comes to Christianity.
 
None of that changes the fact that it's 3/4 of a cup of jello.

Correct. It's a cup of mostly jello, but it's not a jello cup. It's a nation of mostly Christians, but it's not a Christian nation.
 
Not really. Just an amendment to the current constitution at most or a tweaking of judicial opinions at the least. Besides, you simply posed a hypothetical that was wrong-a country can have religious freedom in a real sense and still have a state religion. Many countries now do so. And they are not theocracies or dictatorships. They are, like the US, multicultural and multi-religious yet have a state religion that plays an extremely insignificant role.
And it is so ironic to me. The US Constitution reads like a Unitarian document, written mainly by people who were Unitarians or leaned Unitarian such a Madison. Jefferson himself stated that he thought that within a generation most young people would be Unitarians.

Thomas Jefferson and religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
yes really. The constitution and the bill of rights is the law of the land.

And you don't really have religious freedom as we know it in countries with a national religion.
 
yes really. The constitution and the bill of rights is the law of the land.

And you don't really have religious freedom as we know it in countries with a national religion.
And Article 5 of that Constitution tells how the law of the land may be changed. Not that I am suggesting that. But we have had 27 amendments so far and the founders understood that the law of the land would change. And the Courts have, arguably, done some rather strange interpretations. There is considerable disagreement on what the Constitution means.
 
And Article 5 of that Constitution tells how the law of the land may be changed. Not that I am suggesting that. But we have had 27 amendments so far and the founders understood that the law of the land would change.
The first ten amendments are the bill of rights. So technically the constitution was only amended 17 times. The first amendment isn't going to be amended.
And the Courts have, arguably, done some rather strange interpretations. There is considerable disagreement on what the Constitution means.
So?
 
Something that always baffled me...

If this is Christian nation, how come it's the *only* nation in north america to have the death penalty? How come the entire bible belt has it still and carries out the most executions? Anyone else find that odd?

Other countries with frequent death penalty: Iran, Saudi Arabia, China. Awesome Christian company!
 
I am a strong Christian, and America should not - must not - be a "Christian" nation. Why? Because the beliefs I have are significantly out of step with the great majority of mainstream "Christianity" (for one thing, we strongly oppose the idea of the 'trinity' - Jesus never was and never will be God, nor is He a "mighty God" as the JW's believe)...and I don't want other religions (including mainstream "Christianity") to be teaching my kid religion in school or placing pressure on him to believe as they do.

To put it another way, how would most mainstream "Christians" feel if, say, all of a sudden their town became mostly Mormon, and the schools started holding Mormon-themed presentations and plays, and the children were expected to take part in Mormon-themed events at school? I think we all know where this would lead - and it wouldn't be pretty.

It's not simply a matter of whether America should be a "Christian" nation...but more of which kind of "Christian" nation America would have to be...because there's many different kinds of beliefs when it comes to Christianity.

I don't have anything against Christians, and I think many of their customs/rules/whatever are wonderful. However, I have to wonder what is meant by a "Christian" nation? If this was a Christian nation, does that mean we would all be forced to participate in religious ceremonies (like Lent, etc.) that we don't follow? Would we HAVE to get married before we had sex? Would we all be shunned for not going to Sunday mass? What do the religious people want, is what I want to know.
 
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