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America is or is not a Christian Nation.

Is America a Christian Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 26 25.7%
  • No

    Votes: 75 74.3%

  • Total voters
    101
Why does this nonsense keep coming up? Every year it seems someone has to ask this question???

We are a nation of predominantly self described Christians. We have been this way for a long time and it will probably remain this way for a long time with the influx of spanish speaking peoples who are predominantly Christian.

None of this makes us a "Christian nation" at all.

Because Bodhisattva insisted that the default position, the common sense position, the intellectually savvy position was that we are a Christian Nation and anyone who knows anything knows that.
 
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I would say that most americans identify as christian, but only loosely, and our laws in the end don't operate as such. What i see in government is ceremonial crap like the senate doing a prayer before sessions, and politicians worshiping the votes they get by pretending to be christian (i think obama is atheist). That's about it.

Look on this forum at the # of christians who can't even agree on what that label means and even accuse each other of not being "real christians." That 70% in polls doesn't mean a damn thing. If this was a "christian nation" then nothing else would be tolerated. History and even plenty of modern nations plainly tell us this.
 
A Special thread for Bodhisattva.

The United States is not a Christian Nation. That is my stance.

A nation is defined by it's government and it's people - not only by it's majority. To refer to it as A Christian Nation is to falsely represent many Americans.

Our Country grants freedom for all religions and lack thereof. Grand Cathedrals, churches, Temples, Mosques, and Conventions for Non Believers can be found all over this country. All of which are given equal respect and right to exist.
Religion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Our Government and thus our laws are entirely secular. There are a vast array of laws that directly contradict the teachings in the bible and thus God's will (i.e. laws regarding homosexuals, divorce, and other things considered blasphemous). Making the term "Christian Nation" ever more strange and obviously misplaced.

There is no legitimate reason to refer to this Nation as Christian.
It is nation of Christians. It isn't a Christian nation.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
 
If there is no notion, no concept, of a deity, then the possibility of its existence is irrelevant.

You continue to connect the concept of a deity with some need for specifics of a deity. I can concept of a car without having any need to concept it as a Ford or a Chevy or a Honda, or a VW, etc. Agnostics don't have to concept the "make and model" of the deity(s) to concept the possibility of its/their existence.

Well, I was really continuing to respond to your initial posting on this thread. If 73% of Americans consider themselves Christian, as stated in your linked Wikipedia article, I would contend that we are a Christian country. I would also contend that you can take away any belief in god or Jesus being the son of god and you are still left with Christian morality. Atheists in the US tend to have Christian morality. Karl Marx came from a long line of Rabbis and his Marxism seems imbued with Christian morality despite the fact that he did not believe in god. Christianity is not simply the mythological stuff, it is also the ethical stuff. Take out god and you still have Christianity. I suspect that the majority of the 27% who claim that they are not Christians still retain a belief in Christian morality.

This argument relies upon the premise that these morals are Christian in nature and origin. The simple truth is that they are not. Most morals are shared by many religions most of which are as old if not older than Christianity. You brought up Judaism. Christianity has its roots in Judaism which include its morals. Please provide an example of a moral the is strictly Christian in nature and origin.
 
We are a nation of mostly Christians, but we are not a Christian nation. To be the later would mean that we are a theocracy, which, thank God, we are not.

Like saying, "This cup is filled 3/4 of the way with jello, but it's not a cup of jello". Next up: The sky isn't blue. :roll:
 
There is no legitimate reason to refer to this Nation as Christian.

I disagree. There are legitimate arguments to be made as it relates to this, but one who is are unlearned about the realities of certain aspects of Political Science likely would not realize it. Which, understandably, is most of the population (and admittedly most of those who keep calling it a "christian nation")

My take on this from one of the multitude of other threads asking the same questoin in the past.

Been oft debated on this forum before, but it largely comes down to what way yo'ure using the word "nation".

Are you using it in the lay person vernacular where "Nation" and "Country" are basically synonyms and mean the government of "The United States of America"? IE "We as a nation seek to protect the world form evil". From that stand point, the answer would be no. The "nation" in this case is a secular one, adhering to no particular religion.

Are you using it in the other lay person method of using it, where it's referencing the PEOPLE within the United States in a generalized sense. For example, how someone could say "Football is the nation's new passtime." They're not suggesting everyone in the nation likes or watches football, but rather that its the most popular thing of it's category by the citizens of this country. In this case, it would be reasonable to suggest we're a "Christian Nation", just like it's reasonable to suggest that Football is the "nation's sport".

However, as it relates to the second notion...it's basically an irrelevant one. The fact that the majority of people prefer Football to any other sport doesn't mean the government should somehow reflect that in it's laws. Why? Because regardless of what the majority feel, it's reflecting upon what is essentially a personal opinion/choice of individuals and not a tennet of government. Additionally, notions like this are fickle and able to change through natural means different than the "government" version of the word nation. For example, at one time Football wasn't the "nation's sport", it was baseball.

Finally, the question would be are you using it in the political science sense, refering to people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, etc? In that case, it could be argued that there is a large "Christian Nation" (specifically an american one) within the United States. The more accurate way to ask the question, as it relates to peoples normal meaning with it, would be if the USA is a Christian Nation-State. And that's a tricky one, as it depends on ones personal opinion of how much of those within a particular state need to share the common threads necessary to be a nation.

As it relates to all three of the above...

From a governmental sense, no we are most certainly not a "Christian Nation". Our government is secular.

From the "people of the United States" mindset, I think it was absolutely reasonable to suggest America was a "Christian Nation" at the time of the founding and some time after. I still think it's reasonable to possibly make the claim today, but it's a far more tenuous claim as the fervency of the majority is significantly decreased imho. IE, in the past I'd suggest that FAR MORE of those who identified as "Christian" were actively and routinely practicing the religion where as I believe many now consider themselves "Christian" but rarely attend church/actively engage in their faith.

As it relates to the notion of a "Nation-State", I'm believe that it would be reasonable to suggest in the early days that the United States was a Christian Nation-State. However, I believe it has not been for quite some time as the dominance of a singular religion in the majority has decreased to a significant enough degree in my opinoin, and the prevelence of that religion in the lives of those who follow it has also diminished.
 
O.K.,so we all agree. This is a Christianesque nation.
 
No. Zithaniel got smacked around in another thread, and this is his protest Well-I'll-Show-YOU thread in response :roll:

I can find the occasional Christian who wants America to literally adopt biblical law. Defining the discussion based on the outliers is why our country is so polarized.
 
I always considered us a mostly secular nation. Of course there is some Christian influence perhaps, but a lot of those are just generally accepted principals anyway.
 
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The way I see it, now a days, Christian and Corporate values are one in the same so in a manner of speaking, we might be.
 
This argument relies upon the premise that these morals are Christian in nature and origin. The simple truth is that they are not. Most morals are shared by many religions most of which are as old if not older than Christianity. You brought up Judaism. Christianity has its roots in Judaism which include its morals. Please provide an example of a moral the is strictly Christian in nature and origin.

The Bible has stories about the rich man going to hell and the poor beggar going to heaven. The idea that a rich man getting into heaven is like a camel going through the eye of the needle. The Bible has a story about the fisherman giving 50% of his catch to the poor. The prodigal son returns after squandering his inheritance and is given more. About the meek inheriting the earth.

I don't know. Maybe I just have had more exposure to Christian morality due to growing up in the US. (my parents were atheists)
But I know that Moslems have a requirement of 2.5% (1/40th) of wealth going to charity (not the Bible's 50% donation) but also says that a person's main financial obligations are to his family, not general society. Buddhists believe in karma and presumably believe that if a person achieved some level of wealth perhaps it is due to goodness in prior lives. Hindus don't seem to care much about money-other things are more important. I haven't come across any religion that is as anti-wealth and pro-charity and compassion for the poor and sick as Christianity. I have not come across any philosophy that support such a high level as anti-wealth sentiments and concerns except for philosophies that came from Christian countries and have a Christian background, such as Karl Marx who came from a long line of rabbis and whose parents converted to Protestantism.

Many views have some notion of charity but Christianity takes it, IMHO, to a different level. The European social welfare state developed in Christian countries and even today the countries that are having the biggest problem maintaining their social welfare state are exactly those countries (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, and Spain) that are the most religious, all Christian, in Europe. The less religious European countries seem to have a more objective and sustainable morality.

I am searching for a non-Christian based logic for expending resources on adults who are unable or unwilling to be self sufficient for extended periods of time.
 
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It seems that, by the standards set by some people here, only a theocracy would qualify as a 'Christian nation'.

There is no legitimate reason to refer to this Nation as Christian.

Except for the fact that most people hold Christian beliefs...

A nation's laws are not the only thing that defines its character. The mindset of a citizenry is a far more powerful factor than any law.
 
I disagree. There are legitimate arguments to be made as it relates to this, but one who is are unlearned about the realities of certain aspects of Political Science likely would not realize it. Which, understandably, is most of the population (and admittedly most of those who keep calling it a "christian nation")

My take on this from one of the multitude of other threads asking the same questoin in the past.

I agree with you and I read your stance prior to making this topic in a different thread. I'm not arguing that this nation was never a Christian Nation, just that it currently is not.
 
Yes, I think the way the majority of Americans live their lives reflects that they do their very best to live by Biblical teachings. But you have to leave the ghetto to see that.

And this is wrong. Many do not live their lives by Biblical teachings. The problem is that there are several Biblical teachings that are actually quite good and part of a shared morality of the vast majority of people. Just because a person lives their life by some of these principles that are found in the Bible does not mean that every person that is doing this actually is doing it because of the Bible or a Christian belief.

I can believe killing someone is immoral without believing in the Bible or Christian religion. I can believe that stealing is immoral without believing in the Bible or being Christian. I can believe that adultery (my definition anyway) is immoral without referencing the Bible or Christian philosophy. Christianity did not come up with these principles of morality. They have existed in many cultures throughout history. Christianity, like most religions, simply listed an extensive list of morals that the founders of the religion (and this pretty much goes for any denomination) believe are the morals that God wants us to live by.
 
It seems that, by the standards set by some people here, only a theocracy would qualify as a 'Christian nation'.

Except for the fact that most people hold Christian beliefs...

A nation's laws are not the only thing that defines its character. The mindset of a citizenry is a far more powerful factor than any law.

Except despite popular belief, our mindset is not united at all, even for those who claim to be Christian. There are something like 41,000 denominations of Christianity, with vastly differing principles espoused by these many denominations. And this wouldn't even include many other religious people nor those who claim no religion. Yet there are many Christians who have a closer mindset to those who claim no religion or who claim a different religion than some of those other Christians, in different denominations.
 
America is not a "Christian nation", per se, but it was founded on Christian values (for the most part). We have since deviated greatly from said Christian values, though, so I don't think it's an apt comparison today.
 
America is not a "Christian nation", per se, but it was founded on Christian values (for the most part). We have since deviated greatly from said Christian values, though, so I don't think it's an apt comparison today.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing in all cases. I find some of them to be intrusive, judgmental and sometimes just plain jerks. I think it's surprising that some "religious" people assume they're going to "heaven." I guess it doesn't say anything in the Bible about not being an asshole though.
 
And that's not necessarily a bad thing in all cases. I find some of them to be intrusive, judgmental and sometimes just plain jerks. I think it's surprising that some "religious" people assume they're going to "heaven." I guess it doesn't say anything in the Bible about not being an asshole though.
I don't think the Bible says anything about nice people going to Heaven, though. Righteous people, yes. Maybe the criteria is harsher than we would like to think.
 
I don't think the Bible says anything about nice people going to Heaven, though. Righteous people, yes. Maybe the criteria is harsher than we would like to think.

Right, heaven is full of assholes. :lamo
 
I agree with you and I read your stance prior to making this topic in a different thread. I'm not arguing that this nation was never a Christian Nation, just that it currently is not.

What is the definition of a "Christian Nation"? I dont think that everyone is in agreement to what "Christian Nation" means. So therefor a lot of people will be just talking past each other on their own assumptions.

One definition is this: a "Christian nation," is a nation founded upon Christian and biblical principles, whose values, society, and institutions have largely been shaped by those principles.

But there is a large problem with that definition. It takes more defining.

Now we have to ask what is meant by "Nation"?

When we speak of the USA as a nation we must take in account everyone. The founders of the US took great pains to make sure that they did not create a majority rule situation. They specifically said that there would be no religious tests. meaning basically that you dont need to belong to a certain faith to be a true American. Calling this a "Christian Nation" would be against such beliefs.

What are "Christian and biblical principles"? Christians do not and have never owned the basic principles of society.

Did those principles, values, morals and what not exist before Christians? What Christians believe about principles, values, morals isnt unique before or after the US was created. Christians think that they are the only good people on this planet the rest of us are evil heathens. They think that the only reason that our society isnt run amuck with savages is because of their bible. They run out and attempt to convert anyone that they deem under the spell of the great deceiver. Their bias is so think that they assert that only because of the bible that principles, values, morals exist. They sound like egotistical assholes to me.

 
It is nation of Christians. It isn't a Christian nation.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

There is a world of difference between the admonition about Congress (and it only applied to Congress) making laws establishing religion and people imbued with Christian morality using that morality to argue for Christian type responses on public issues. Not sure that there is any real semantic difference in meaning between a Christian nation and a nation of Christians. It would be nice if only objective and "secular" responses to public issues were incorporated into public policy but that is not the case, nor can it be. As stated in Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (signed by the US and therefore part of US law):
•Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance
 
I can find the occasional Christian who wants America to literally adopt biblical law.

:shrug: Sure. I find plenty of atheists who confuse freedom of religion with freedom from religion.

Defining the discussion based on the outliers is why our country is so polarized.

I'd agree with that, but you're probably an ally of the occupy wall street terrorists who want to target cops, so, I'd feel too dirty talking to you in order to do so.
 
Right, heaven is full of assholes. :lamo

Certainly it is full of people who started out that way. :) Jesus didn't come for the perfect, he came for the sinners.
 
A Special thread for Bodhisattva.

The United States is not a Christian Nation. That is my stance.

A nation is defined by it's government and it's people - not only by it's majority. To refer to it as A Christian Nation is to falsely represent many Americans.

Our Country grants freedom for all religions and lack thereof. Grand Cathedrals, churches, Temples, Mosques, and Conventions for Non Believers can be found all over this country. All of which are given equal respect and right to exist.
Religion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Our Government and thus our laws are entirely secular. There are a vast array of laws that directly contradict the teachings in the bible and thus God's will (i.e. laws regarding homosexuals, divorce, and other things considered blasphemous). Making the term "Christian Nation" ever more strange and obviously misplaced.

There is no legitimate reason to refer to this Nation as Christian.

The People are mostly Christian, the government is secular.
 
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