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America is or is not a Christian Nation.

Is America a Christian Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 26 25.7%
  • No

    Votes: 75 74.3%

  • Total voters
    101
77% Christians = The United States is a Christian Country

That doesn't make the nation christian. That 77%'s beliefs are not reflected in our culture as a whole or in our government. The U.S is not a christian nation.
 
Scantily clad is governed by a specific law?

And if I recall correctly, the public nudity laws in NYC aren't quite that liberal (100% allowed). I believe the laws only extend to a female breast (because of breastfeeding) and 100% nudity that occurs during an entertainment event (play, show, exhibition). But I may not be remembering that right.

Your right it's only the top. But the freedom to walk around with your Jugs out is hardly a reflection of Christian values.

So if we go back to my point - Why I think nation I think culture and what can be seen as commonly accepted by the people. The things we accept here in out country on a grand scale are numerous and far far away from what the bible says a society should be doing.
 
A nation is not simply defined by it's majority. Your definition does not support that claim you are making.
There are many other religions in out country all of which are give equal respect and autonomy (with the context of our secular laws) and freedom to exist.
This also includes those who do not believe.
Our government does not favor nor legislate in accordance to christian beliefs, in fact as of late is has continuously ruled in favor of secular laws that many Christians are appalled by seeing as the laws offend their moral standards.
Our culture is not Christian at all.

Irrelevant. If a majority of a nations people self identify as Christian it's a Christian nation. We're talking about political theology, or what beliefs these Christians have or to what extent belief is part of their daily lives. We're talking about the people inhabiting the nation. 77% self identify as Christian - whether you like it or not, whether you believe they are "real" Christians or not.... your claim about 77% bloviating nonsense since you have not provided any source for your claim.
 
Your right it's only the top. But the freedom to walk around with your Jugs out is hardly a reflection of Christian values.

So if we go back to my point - Why I think nation I think culture and what can be seen as commonly accepted by the people. The things we accept here in out country on a grand scale are numerous and far far away from what the bible says a society should be doing.

As I said, I'm not a Christian, but I also never thought keeping your breasts covered was a Christian thing. The Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. women all do the same thing in public.
 
Source of your bupkus claim?

Here's mine:
In U.S., 77% Identify as Christian
lol, um ok. I didn't deny that 77% of americans Identify as Christian, I'm denying the notion that Christian's agree that the U.S is a christian nation, what with it's many laws and liberal standards that are far removed from christian teachings.
 
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A nation is not simply defined by it's majority. Your definition does not support that claim you are making.
There are many other religions in out country all of which are give equal respect and autonomy (with the context of our secular laws) and freedom to exist.
This also includes those who do not believe.
Our government does not favor nor legislate in accordance to christian beliefs, in fact as of late is has continuously ruled in favor of secular laws that many Christians are appalled by seeing as the laws offend their moral standards.
Our culture is not Christian at all.

It also stems from the Protestant Work Ethic...

The Protestant work ethic is often credited with helping to define the societies of Northern Europe and other countries where Protestantism was common (for example, the Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Canada, and the United States of America). Writer Frank Chodorov argued that the Protestant ethic was long considered indispensable for American political figures:

Protestant work ethic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...and if the people that make up the nation represent a majority then that is what the nation primarily is. If you deny that then you are arguing that nothing is pure since nothing is 100%. To argue that the majority does not define a nation is ridiculous. That means that Israel is not a Jewish State since Christians and Muslims live there in a minority. That dogs aren't carnivores because sometimes they eat grass to help their digestive system... etc.
 
As I said, I'm not a Christian, but I also never thought keeping your breasts covered was a Christian thing. The Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. women all do the same thing in public.

Well yeah, my point is, that the culture here is far removed from the teachings of christ. So to call the nation christian is weird to me.
 
It also stems from the Protestant Work Ethic...

The Protestant work ethic is often credited with helping to define the societies of Northern Europe and other countries where Protestantism was common (for example, the Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Canada, and the United States of America). Writer Frank Chodorov argued that the Protestant ethic was long considered indispensable for American political figures:

No I'm denying your superficial qualification for a nation. At one point this nation could accurately be called Christian, it no longer is though.
I believe culture, practices, and the actual character that can be seen throughout the country is what defines the nation.

The US is a melting pot of everything. However as culture and scripture is concerned we are far removed from biblical standards. So to say with a straight face that America - with it's liberal society regarding so many things that the bible condemns, is a Christian nation is so incredibly strange to me. I don't believe that simply pointing at the majority and their claimed belief, i say claimed because many Christians are just christian in title, can accurately define a nation. It's too narrow in it's scope.
 
Jesus Christ! I don't know what in hell what make you think our culture or language is being influenced by the god damn religion. Lord help me...

Wow!:shock:

edit- nevermind- gotcha :lamo
 
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Irrelevant. If a majority of a nations people self identify as Christian it's a Christian nation. We're talking about political theology, or what beliefs these Christians have or to what extent belief is part of their daily lives. We're talking about the people inhabiting the nation. 77% self identify as Christian - whether you like it or not, whether you believe they are "real" Christians or not.... your claim about 77% bloviating nonsense since you have not provided any source for your claim.

Can you believe someone referred to our beautiful monuments in this manner?

Nation is defined by it's government and it culture, not a bunch of old relics from a time long passed. Do you honestly think our government and our American culture reflects Biblical teachings?

Is the US Constitution an 'old relic from times past?'
 
Well yeah, my point is, that the culture here is far removed from the teachings of christ. So to call the nation christian is weird to me.

I think you have exemplified that you don't know or understand the teachings of Christ.
 
I think you have exemplified that you don't know or understand the teachings of Christ.

No I understand them a plenty. I don't understand how a nation that proudly supports a culture that is no where near the teachings of christ can be considered a christian nation.
 
lol, um ok. I didn't deny that 77% of americans Identify as Christian, I'm denying the notion that Christian ins agree that the U.S is a christian nation, what with it's many laws and liberal standards that are far removed from christian teachings.

First, you can deny all you want - it doesn't change the facts. Second, the law of the US are based on Christian teachings. The laws were based on Christian teachings as Joseph Story wrote in 1833:

But independently of any weight in any of these authorities, can any man seriously doubt, that Christianity is recognized as true, as a revelation, by the law of England, that is, by the common law? What becomes of her whole ecclesiastical establishment, and the legal rights growing out of it on any other supposition? What of her test acts, and acts perpetually referring to it as a divine system, obligatory upon all? Is not the reviling of any establishment, created and supported by the public law, held a libel by the common law ? ("Christianity a part of the Common Law" by Joseph Story, written in 1824 but unpublished until published in The American Jurist and Law Magazine, 9 (April 1833): 346-348. The Life and Letters of Joseph Story, ed William Story, Vol. I, Charles C. Little and James Brown, (1851) pp 429-434. )


You stated and I quote:

Zinthaniel said:
The majority seems to deny it, including Christians themselves.

You were proven wrong.

Zinthaniel said:
77% Christians do not think this country accurately reflects the values of their religion and moral standards.

You were asked for a source of that claim and you have provided none - therefore It seems like you made it up.
 
No I understand them a plenty. I don't understand how a nation that proudly supports a culture that is no where near the teachings of christ can be considered a christian nation.

So what would you consider a culture that is 'near the teachings of Christ?' Paint the picture for us.
 
Treaty of Tripoli
The Treaty of Tripoli (Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary) was the first treaty concluded between the United States of America and Tripolitania, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796, and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797, and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.
The treaty was a routine diplomatic agreement but has attracted later attention because the English version included a clause about religion in the United States. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Treaty of Tripoli is oft used, perhaps 'misused' in debates on this point.

Many contend, with reason, the language was put in/massaged to reassure the Muslim Nations that we weren't in a religious war with them.
Wiki continues on that point/Article 11, beyond your short excerpt:

Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Article 11 ...

According to Frank Lambert, Professor of History at Purdue University, the assurances in Article 11 were "intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced..."

"..At least one member of Adams' cabinet, Secretary of War James McHenry, is known to have protested the language of article 11, before its ratification.[18]
A second treaty, the Treaty of Peace and Amity signed on July 4, 1805, superseded the 1796 treaty. The 1805 treaty did Not contain the phrase "not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."[19][20]​


Again, I'm an Atheist, this is a Matter of history and true characterization of this country I am proud has the heritage it does.
It was the Christian Nations/conscience (UK, France, USA) which brought the principles of democracy and individual rights/freedom to the modern world.
 
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I am Jewish -- I am neither Russian nor an American.

Most Catholics do not consider Protestants Christian. Most Orthodox Christians do not consider Catholics or Protestant Christian.
 
Benjamin Rush On the Mode of Education Proper in a Republic
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: 1806
[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.

Benjamin Rush letter to John Armstrong
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: March 19, 1783
Without religion, I believe that learning does real mischief to the morals and principles of mankind.

David Ramsay .Speech to the Assembly at Charlestown
Categories: Equality, Religion and Morality, Virtue
Date: 1778
Our present form of government is every way preferable to the royal one we have lately renounced. It is much more favorable to purity of morals, and better calculated to promote all our important interests . . . . Royal courts are reservoirs, from whence insincerity, hypocrisy, dissimulation, pride, luxury, and extravagance deluge and overwhelm the body of the people. On the other hand, republics are favorable to truth, sincerity, frugality, industry, and simplicity of manners. Equality, the life and soul of commonwealths, cuts off all pretensions to preferment, but those which arise from extraordinary merit.
John Witherspoon A Sermon Delivered at Public Thanksgiving after Peace
Categories: Character, Political Leaders, Religion and Morality, Virtue
Date: Unknown

Is it reasonable to expect wisdom from the ignorant? Fidelity from the profligate? Assiduity and application to public business from men of a dissipated life? Is it reasonable to commit the management of public revenue to one who has wasted his own patrimony? Those, therefore, who pay no regard to religion and sobriety in the persons whom they send to the legislature of any State are guilty of the greatest absurdity and will soon pay dear for their folly.
Noah Webster History of the United States
Categories: Americans / American Character, Character, Political Leaders, Religion and Morality, Republican Government
Date: Unknown

f the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted . . . . If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the Divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws.
George Washington First Inaugural Address
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: April 30, 1789
The foundations of our national policy will be laid in the pure and immutable principles of private morality, and the preeminence of free government be exemplified by all the attributes which can win the affections of its citizens, and command the respect of the world.

Samuel Adams letter to John Trumbull
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: October 16, 1778
Religion and good morals are the only solid foundation of public liberty and happiness.
Benjamin Franklin to Thomas Paine
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: Unknown

If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?
John Jay letter to Peter Augustus Jay
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: April 9, 1784
The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.

George Washington Farewell Address
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: September 19, 1796
[W]here is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation deserts the oaths . . . ?

John Adams Address to First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: October 11, 1798
We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
 
Thomas Jefferson Westmoreland County Petition
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: November 2, 1785
Reading, reflection and time have convinced me that the interests of society require the observation of those moral precepts only in which all religions agree.

George Washington letter to Thomas Nelson
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: August 20, 1778
The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations.

George Washington Farewell Address
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: September 19, 1796
Of all the dispositions and habits which least to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indespensible supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism who should labor to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness - these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in the Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the opposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

Benjamin Rush letter to John Adams
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: August 20, 1811
In such a performance you may lay the foundation of national happiness only in religion, not by leaving it doubtful "whether morals can exist without it," but by asserting that without religion morals are the effects of causes as purely physical as pleasant breezes and fruitful seasons.

John Adams letter in response to Benjamin Rush
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: August 28, 1811
[R]eligion and virtue are the only foundations, not of republicanism and of all free government, but of social felicity under all government and in all the combinations of human society.

Gouverneur Morris letter to George Gordon
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: June 28, 1792
Religion is the only solid Base of morals and that Morals are the only possible Support of free governments.

Benjamin Franklin Letter to the Abbes Chalut and Arnoux
Categories: Liberty / Freedom, Religion and Morality, Virtue
Date: 1787
Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom.

John Adams Letter to Benjamin Rush
Categories: Religion and Morality, Religious Liberty
Date: 1812
Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion.

Thomas Jefferson Sheridan, Liberty and Virtue
Categories: Religion and Morality
Date: Unknown
The Christian religion, [when] brought to the original purity and simplicity of its benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty.

Thomas Jefferson Draft for a Bill to Establish Religious Freedom in Virginia
Categories: Human Nature, Religion and Morality, Religious Liberty
Date: 1779
Well aware that the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds; that Almighty God hath created the mind free, and manifested his supreme will that free it shall remain by making it altogether insusceptible of restraint; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments, or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion.

Thomas Jefferson A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom
Categories: Religion and Morality, Religious Liberty
Date: 1779
[T]hat the opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous falacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty.

John Adams Letter to Mercy Warren
Categories: Government, Religion and Morality
Date: April 16, 1776
The form of government which you admire, when its principles are pure is admirable indeed. It is productive of every Thing which is great and excellent among men. But its principles are as easily destroyed as human nature is corrupted. Such a government is only to be supported by pure religion or Austere morals.

James Madison A Memorial and Remonstrance
Categories: Religion and Morality, Religious Liberty
Date: 1785
Because we hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, "that Religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only be reason and convection, not by force or violence." The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate.
 
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So what would you consider a culture that is 'near the teachings of Christ?'

Well if the teachings of Christ/the bible are pretty conservative.

and our a mainstream culture, meaning the culture that is shared and celebrated by the majority, supports singers who hardly wear anything, celebrities who love and support homosexuals & demand, along with the gays, that they all have rights, anyone who bashes homosexuality is dragged through the coals, rappers who rap about sex and thug life and violence, advocacy groups that push from more secularism in the government and are succeeding some cases, we long since have removed prayer from the class room, divorce is a flippant and frivolous procedure, sex is before marriage is not frowned upon and is normal here, etc etc

Then there is a definite disconnect.
all of that is supported and accepted in our culture, it's not a "oh we are sinning and will try to change thing," it's a "this is who we are and we are not ashamed of it" thing.

So when that is the culture here - I don't see how the nation can be called Christian.
 
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That doesn't make the nation christian. That 77%'s beliefs are not reflected in our culture as a whole or in our government. The U.S is not a christian nation.

The government is secular and thus excluded from the argument. Please do not refer to that again. It is a Straw Man.

Culture is NOT? Are you serious?

The USA celebrates Christian events and National Holidays: Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving and Halloween.

Most people participate is Christian style marriages, funerals and burials.

The list goes on and on...
 
So you believe that we have laws and a culture that is synonymous to the teachings of christ? Laws that support many things that the bible says "No No" to.

If you say so.

The facts say so. There is a difference between the laws of man and the laws of God. That was done purposefully.
 
The government is secular and thus excluded from the argument. Please do not refer to that again. It is a Straw Man.

Culture is NOT? Are you serious?

The USA celebrates Christian events and National Holidays: Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving and Halloween.

Most people participate is Christian style marriages, funerals and burials.

The list goes on and on...

All of those things are far removed from their orignial meaning and you know it.

Where is the easter bunny in the bible?
Where is Santa Clause? Is in Romans 23?
Thanksgiving isn't a christian holiday. So uh, yeah.. moving on
Halloween isn't a christian holiday. Lol. What? Where you trying to sneak those in?

Many weddings are secular.
How are funerals a christian invention? Burying the dead predates Christianity.

Our culture still doers not reflect the teachings of christ. Nor does the population as a whole act by the standards established in the bible. We do the exact opposite.
 
I will go as far as to say, one of the reasons this country is so ****ed up is because of its christian influence and the extremes that this influence takes us.
 
All of those things are far removed from their orignial meaning and you know it.

Where is the easter bunny in the bible?
Where is Santa Clause? Is in Romans 23?
Thanksgiving isn't a christian holiday. So uh, yeah.. moving on
Halloween isn't a christian holiday. Lol. What? Where you trying to sneak those in?

Many weddings are secular.
How are funerals a christian invention? Burying the dead predates Christianity.

Our culture still doers not reflect the teachings of christ. Nor does the population as a whole act by the standards established in the bible. We do the exact opposite.


thanksgiving......... was a day of giving thanks to GOD
 
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