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Is this murder?

Is this murder?

  • Yes, this is murder.

    Votes: 4 22.2%

  • No, this is manslaughter.

    Votes: 7 38.9%

  • No, this was a man in uniform doing his job

    Votes: 4 22.2%

  • OMG, you killed Kenny! You bastards!

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • Total voters
    18
Peter Grimm

Peter Grimm

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Note: If you're squeamish, don't watch this video.

Following is actual video footage of an incident that occurred at a North Carolina jail. You can see a prison guard body slam an inmate two times. You can see that the prison guard was provoked.

The inmate never regained consciousness and died of blunt force trauma to the head after two days in the hospital. The inmate was in prison for being intoxicated at a bus stop, and the confrontation was apparently over an incident that occurred earlier in which the inmate's hand had nearly got caught in a trap door while the guard was closing it.


My question to you: based on what you see, was the prison guard doing his job? Was he relying on his training (as he himself said) or is he using excessive force? Would you characterize what you see on film here as murder? Manslaughter? A prison guard doing his duty?


 
based on what you say we don't see or hear enough of what happened on this video to make a good judgment from it alone
 
That's pro wrestling in prison.

The convict was being confrontational & was probably warned to step off, which he didn't, so he got pushed away, stepped back up and the CO slammed him like a rag doll until the threat was neutralized.
 
blarg said:
based on what you say we don't see or hear enough of what happened on this video to make a good judgment from it alone
Click to expand...

This is from an actual court case. What I've given you in the OP is all the information the jury had to work with. This is the video evidence. The plaintiff's testimony was that the inmate was confronting him due to the prior incident with the trap door, and that he was using his training to neutralize the situation.

That's all the jury had to work with, and they were able to come to a conclusion.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Note: If you're squeamish, don't watch this video.

Following is actual video footage of an incident that occurred at a North Carolina jail. You can see a prison guard body slam an inmate two times. You can see that the prison guard was provoked.

The inmate never regained consciousness and died of blunt force trauma to the head after two days in the hospital. The inmate was in prison for being intoxicated at a bus stop, and the confrontation was apparently over an incident that occurred earlier in which the inmate's hand had nearly got caught in a trap door while the guard was closing it.


My question to you: based on what you see, was the prison guard doing his job? Was he relying on his training (as he himself said) or is he using excessive force? Would you characterize what you see on film here as murder? Manslaughter? A prison guard doing his duty?


Click to expand...


based on what you provided i dont see any "murder".

my only concern is if this is real jail? or a youth correctional facility. say the guard is a grown man fully trained and that was a 14yr old he body slammed. Then i might say its aggressive but not murder

my question is simply what sane, nonthreatening rational man ATTACKS a police officer / security guard?

he is already a criminal, no real reason to trust him or give him the benefit of the doubt; strike 1
he then decides to attack repeatedly in gen pop; strike two
because of the two above the situation could get out of control quickly if the threat isnt stopped and other join in. strike 3

unless theres more if im on the jury i say its not murde
 
First slam, justified neutralizing of a violent inmate.
Second slam, rage induced over the top revenge violence, picking up and slamming an unconscious man... likely the cause of his death.
Manslaughter.
 
AGENT J said:
based on what you provided i dont see any "murder".

my only concern is if this is real jail? or a youth correctional facility. say the guard is a grown man fully trained and that was a 14yr old he body slammed. Then i might say its aggressive but not murder

my question is simply what sane, nonthreatening rational man ATTACKS a police officer / security guard?

he is already a criminal, no real reason to trust him or give him the benefit of the doubt; strike 1
he then decides to attack repeatedly in gen pop; strike two
because of the two above the situation could get out of control quickly if the threat isnt stopped and other join in. strike 3

unless theres more if I'm on the jury i say its not murde
Click to expand...


It's an adult prison. The inmate was a 40 year old man weighing 119 lbs, he was in prison for being intoxicated at a bus stop and for possession of narcotics.
 
Peter Grimm said:
.....My question to you: based on what you see, was the prison guard doing his job? Was he relying on his training (as he himself said) or is he using excessive force? Would you characterize what you see on film here as murder? Manslaughter? A prison guard doing his duty?
Click to expand...


Imo, it looks like excessive force. The prison guard was twice the prisoners size and tried to slam his hand in the cell door and then shoved him across the room before the prisoner finally tried to accost him. It looked like the guard deliberately broke the prisoners neck.

Intoxication at a bus stop is a prison offense....and a death sentence apparently.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Note: If you're squeamish, don't watch this video.

Following is actual video footage of an incident that occurred at a North Carolina jail. You can see a prison guard body slam an inmate two times. You can see that the prison guard was provoked.

The inmate never regained consciousness and died of blunt force trauma to the head after two days in the hospital. The inmate was in prison for being intoxicated at a bus stop, and the confrontation was apparently over an incident that occurred earlier in which the inmate's hand had nearly got caught in a trap door while the guard was closing it.


My question to you: based on what you see, was the prison guard doing his job? Was he relying on his training (as he himself said) or is he using excessive force? Would you characterize what you see on film here as murder? Manslaughter? A prison guard doing his duty?


Click to expand...


I think you would want to know more for a final desicion, but that will be hard to judge in any case. The prisoner aproached the guard after a first Encounter. That would have the feel of aggression and the guard would have the right to stop preceived danger to his person. I don't like it and think the prison should prevent this type of thing. How to do it, I have no idea.
 
Peter Grimm said:
It's an adult prison. The inmate was a 40 year old man weighing 119 lbs, he was in prison for being intoxicated at a bus stop and for possession of narcotics.
Click to expand...

then again without more i simply dont see "murder"
what he is in prison for really doesnt matter to me since he attacked the guard. that instantly deems him a nutcase.

somebody did mention about the consciousness of the criminal though. If he was clearly already out on the first slam then again i might say its excessive but not murder.

I just dont have any tolerance for one person attacking a second and the second one is supposed to do all the work and risk their lives over a nut case violating their rights. WHy should the victim risk their lives beyond any normal amount.

THis moron criminal doesnt attack a prison guard he is still alive. Sounds like a darwin award is in order IMO
 
I am no homicide detective.

So my opinions on such matters really dont matter and neither do yours or anyone elses.
 
joG said:
I think you would want to know more for a final desicion, but that will be hard to judge in any case. The prisoner aproached the guard after a first Encounter. That would have the feel of aggression and the guard would have the right to stop preceived danger to his person. I don't like it and think the prison should prevent this type of thing. How to do it, I have no idea.
Click to expand...
The unconscious man lying still and quiet at the guard's feet after the first body slam presented no threat whatsoever to the guard.
At that point the guard picked up a defenseless human and threw him to the floor in a rage, causing lethal injury.
Easy peasy manslaughter. No premeditation. Not murder ...manslaughter.
 
The body slam was ok but a pile driver would garner more style points. I give the guard a 7.2 out of 10.
 
Buck Ewer said:
1.)The unconscious man lying still and quiet at the guard's feet after the first body slam presented no threat whatsoever to the guard.
At that point the guard picked up a defenseless human and threw him to the floor in a rage, causing lethal injury.
Easy peasy manslaughter. No premeditation. Not murder ...manslaughter.
Click to expand...

how do you know he is unconscious? where is that info at? there is literally 3 seconds between slams

now with that said it "the no threat" could be factually determined id be more willing to agree this was excessive or worse but the info/video in the OP doesnt show that unless i choose to ASSUME.
 
Murder, because it looks like the guard provoked the inmate by shoving him.

:shrug:
 
Murder 2. Maybe murder 1. At the very least. The big dude threw the first punch and knocked the client backwards about 6 feet. He hit him with a right AFIK. Anything the inmate did after that was self-defense. After all, he's locked in the room and was physically attacked. There is no place to retreat in such a predicament. He must fight for his life. And there is no second chance when attacked by such a violent gorilla.
 
Buck Ewer said:
The unconscious man lying still and quiet at the guard's feet after the first body slam presented no threat whatsoever to the guard.
At that point the guard picked up a defenseless human and threw him to the floor in a rage, causing lethal injury.
Easy peasy manslaughter. No premeditation. Not murder ...manslaughter.
Click to expand...

As I said, we might need more info for a decision. My opinion was from what I saw from one viewing. But without wanting to revisit the vid, I will just let it go.
 
Buck Ewer said:
First slam, justified neutralizing of a violent inmate.
Second slam, rage induced over the top revenge violence, picking up and slamming an unconscious man... likely the cause of his death.
Manslaughter.
Click to expand...

Disagree. As sad as that was, the inmate was violent and KNEW not to confront the guard, which he did. The 2nd slam while maybe or maybe not necessary, was probably believed to be necessary by the person who was threatened and in the best position to know...the guard. Once you are in a physical confrontation, you HAVE to completely stop your opponent. To ensure your own safetly. That 'stopping' can take different forms...like the retreat of the attacker, their death, complete immobilization, etc.
 
manslaughter.
The guard was out of his mind but clearly the slamming was not planned.
 
Buck Ewer said:
First slam, justified neutralizing of a violent inmate.
Second slam, rage induced over the top revenge violence, picking up and slamming an unconscious man... likely the cause of his death.
Manslaughter.
Click to expand...

That's the way I saw it also. I hate to pass judgement with no other information than is in the OP, but as I watched the video, I was fine with everything I saw the CO do, until the second body slam.
 
Lursa said:
Disagree. As sad as that was, the inmate was violent and KNEW not to confront the guard, which he did. The 2nd slam while maybe or maybe not necessary, was probably believed to be necessary by the person who was threatened and in the best position to know...the guard. Once you are in a physical confrontation, you HAVE to completely stop your opponent. To ensure your own safetly. That 'stopping' can take different forms...like the retreat of the attacker, their death, complete immobilization, etc.
Click to expand...

Very good point. However, with no other facts to go on but the video, I have to agree with Buck on this one, because saw it the same way.
 
it is a real murder.he was a child and he should have protected himself without killing him.
 
Moot said:
Intoxication at a bus stop is a prison offense....and a death sentence apparently.
Click to expand...

Public intoxication can get you jailed, yes. But he was not sentenced to death because of it. The inmate died because of his actions in the jail, not because of the offense that got him there. The CO's in a prison/jail are dealing with dangerous people. Maybe not all are dangerous but enough are that an inmate getting in your face like that is a threat. Inmates getting in a CO's face like that is not allowed and for very good reason. The CO pushed him back and the guy tried to assault him. Slamming him down was not inappropriate.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Note: If you're squeamish, don't watch this video.

Following is actual video footage of an incident that occurred at a North Carolina jail. You can see a prison guard body slam an inmate two times. You can see that the prison guard was provoked.

The inmate never regained consciousness and died of blunt force trauma to the head after two days in the hospital. The inmate was in prison for being intoxicated at a bus stop, and the confrontation was apparently over an incident that occurred earlier in which the inmate's hand had nearly got caught in a trap door while the guard was closing it.


My question to you: based on what you see, was the prison guard doing his job? Was he relying on his training (as he himself said) or is he using excessive force? Would you characterize what you see on film here as murder? Manslaughter? A prison guard doing his duty?


Click to expand...


Prison guard was protecting himself.
 
MaggieD said:
Prison guard was protecting himself.
Click to expand...
With the first body slam the guard was defending himself. The victim landing on his side and the side of his head.
The man was motionless and unconscious for the three seconds in between .
The second body slam was violent assault on what was basically a defenseless sleeping person.
The second body slam landed the unconscious victim on the back of his head and neck.
Death was caused by injury to the head and neck sustained from the second slam.
The second body slam was manslaughter.
 
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