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Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

Who is MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans?

  • GOP

    Votes: 5 5.1%

  • Black Leadership

    Votes: 22 22.4%

  • Democrats

    Votes: 15 15.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 56 57.1%
  • Total voters
    98
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grip said:
The cause of racial disparity on an economic level is simply not white bigotry anymore.
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LOL...when exactly did it disappear? Is there a tombstone anywhere?
It is cause is more of an epidemic racial discontinuous harmony.
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Uh-huh.


I don't deny that racial differences once existed but not for decades in any significance, it is all recently been a bunch of apologist crappola.
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Racial differences have also disappeared!

Everyone has the same ethnicity!

Shalom ya'll!
 
sangha said:
I don't know what you mean by "overall". I've seen it plenty of times, in many different types of situations
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I'll admit when you've made a good point but you won't reciprocate, which makes debating you pointless sometimes.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
LOL...when exactly did it disappear? Is there a tombstone anywhere? Uh-huh.


Racial differences have also disappeared!

Everyone has the same ethnicity!

Shalom ya'll!
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When all you can do is laugh in response, I'll call that a submission.
 
grip said:
When all you can do is laugh in response, I'll call that a submission.
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I guess it is not a "submission"......or what ever the hell you are saying.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I guess it is not a "submission"......or what ever the hell you are saying.
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Show me all this racism, besides the pathetic examples of an old demented billionaire. You can't, can you.
 
grip said:
Show me all this racism, besides the pathetic examples of an old demented billionaire. You can't, can you.
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I can't show you all of them, the forum won't allow it.....and if I left one out, you could argue I lost the debate.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I can't show you all of them, the forum won't allow it.....and if I left one out, you could argue I lost the debate.
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I am more on your side than you realize. I detest real racism and think it's an abomination, especially since I'm part Native American. But I think the real deal can't be vanquished if we continually call out every human slight or weakness as racism.
 
I also blame everyone who says 'ni'.

Or 'it'.
 
grip said:
I am more on your side than you realize. I detest real racism and think it's an abomination, especially since I'm part Native American. But I think the real deal can't be vanquished if we continually call out every human slight or weakness as racism.
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You are in denial, I'm not the one to help with that.
 
RedAkston said:
And if you changed it to "Is perceived racism to blame?" or "Is perceived prejudice to blame?" we would get an even bigger change in the discussion. But when one is talking about "prejudice" and others are talking about actual "racism", it starts to get ridiculous.
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Agreed.....what is even more ridiculous is equating a thought with an act.
 
sangha said:
I suspect we're not going to agree on this one. IMO, it's a bit pedantic to get hung up over the difference between racial prejudice and racism when the end result (disparate treatment based on race) is the same.

But you're a pretty smart guy. Maybe you can explain why that is a significant difference
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Being prejudice does not make one a racist. Not feeling comfortable walking out to your car at night if there is a black male hanging around the parking lot (this can be seen as prejudice) is a far cry from saying that black males cannot use the same bathroom as white males (this is institutional racism).
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Wait, you just said that black racists outnumbered white racists where you grew up......so what happened.....have they all died.....and the racism in America died with them?
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RedAkston said:
No I didn't .....
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Really....who said:



RedAkston said:
I would venture to say that the numbers of black who hate or are intolerant of whites is probably about the same as whites who hate or are intolerant of blacks if not more so.
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RedAkston said:
Being prejudice does not make one a racist. Not feeling comfortable walking out to your car at night if there is a black male hanging around the parking lot (this can be seen as prejudice) is a far cry from saying that black males cannot use the same bathroom as white males (this is institutional racism).
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Looky there, you differentiated thought from action.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You are in denial, I'm not the one to help with that.
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That's actually sad that you think that way, because real racism is harder to distinguish when people are willing to call any noticeable differences racist.
 
grip said:
I'll admit when you've made a good point but you won't reciprocate, which makes debating you pointless sometimes.
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Once again I don't understand your response. You asked me if it was something that happened "overall". I don't know what you meant by that, so I said so and explained that I had seen it in a many different situations.

What was I supposed to reciprocate? Was I supposed to say it doesn't happen "overall" when I don't even understand what you mean by that?
 
RedAkston said:
I didn't say "where I grew up" in that quote did I? Nope, didn't think so. This is where you should give up.
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Oh, you are wiggling out of a debate on race because you said "where you lived" instead of "where you grew up".

Wow, that is pretty pathetic. I had no idea that my argument...or yours....depended upon such a difference in time.
 
grip said:
That's actually sad that you think that way, because real racism is harder to distinguish when people are willing to call any noticeable differences racist.
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Weird...I did not know that I was calling "any differences" anything.

I have to stop myself from being so absolute.
 
grip said:
I am more on your side than you realize. I detest real racism and think it's an abomination, especially since I'm part Native American. But I think the real deal can't be vanquished if we continually call out every human slight or weakness as racism.
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I agree that there is a tendency for many people to call any policy which has a disparate impact on black people "racist" when oftentimes the policy is based on our attitudes towards poverty and not race (which ends up having a disparate impact because blacks are more likely to be poor)

However, I also think it's a bit pedantic to concern ourselves over whether the problem is racism or classism when the effect of a policy causes more harm to blacks than to other groups
 
sangha said:
Once again I don't understand your response. You asked me if it was something that happened "overall". I don't know what you meant by that, so I said so and explained that I had seen it in a many different situations.

What was I supposed to reciprocate? Was I supposed to say it doesn't happen "overall" when I don't even understand what you mean by that?
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You're very intelligent but allow your bias to control your perception. Do you believe Obama was elected because he was black or the best candidate.
 
sangha said:
I agree that there is a tendency for many people to call any policy which has a disparate impact on black people "racist" when oftentimes the policy is based on our attitudes towards poverty and not race (which ends up having a disparate impact because blacks are more likely to be poor)

However, I also think it's a bit pedantic to concern ourselves over whether the problem is racism or classism when the effect of a policy causes more harm to blacks than to other groups
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You just nailed the hammer on the head with the true problems being classism. We've as a people long outgrew real racism, it's been more about position and status for years now. The minorities, blacks and latinos have suffered more as a result than any other race but it's not about race for the rulers, as much as class distinction.
 
RedAkston said:
Being prejudice does not make one a racist. Not feeling comfortable walking out to your car at night if there is a black male hanging around the parking lot (this can be seen as prejudice) is a far cry from saying that black males cannot use the same bathroom as white males (this is institutional racism).
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I agree with all of that. I also believe, as I just noted in a response to grip, that there is a tendency to call any policy that has a disparate impact on black people "racist" even if the motivation or thought behind it has nothing to do with actual racism (either a belief in racial inferiority or desire to systematically oppress people based on race). However, I'm not sure there's much significance in distinguishing between the two when it comes to this discussion.

The way I see it is, if some policy or cultural "tradition" (I'm using that term very loosely to include things like crossing the street when you see a group of young tough-looking black kids) has a negative effect on black people, then why is it significant that we call it prejudice (or whatever) instead of racism? Regardless of the words we use to describe it, it's still having the same effect on black people and their situation.
 
grip said:
You're very intelligent but allow your bias to control your perception. Do you believe Obama was elected because he was black or the best candidate.
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Everyone's perception is influenced by their biases. I'm not immune to that.

But to answer your question, people get elected for a number of reasons. At least, most of the time. In Obama's case, I have no doubt that many voted for him because he was black, and that many voted for him because they thought he was the best the candidate. And I'm sure some people thought he was the best the candidate because he is black
 
grip said:
You just nailed the hammer on the head with the true problems being classism. We've as a people long outgrew real racism, it's been more about position and status for years now. The minorities, blacks and latinos have suffered more as a result than any other race but it's not about race for the rulers, as much as class distinction.
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I do think that classism is a bigger problem than racism, but I don't think we have outgrown racism. However, that may be a bias of mine as I grew up in an extremely racist environment.
 
sangha said:
I do think that classism is a bigger problem than racism, but I don't think we have outgrown racism. However, that may be a bias of mine as I grew up in an extremely racist environment.
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We have reached a common ground - 'classism' is the bigger problem. I don't think anyone is denying that racism still exists, but what I and others have said is that racism isn't what it used to be. The biggest issue why so many blacks can't rise above has less to do with "racism" or "prejudice" than some here claim.

BTW, your post may be the very first post of your that I have ever 'liked'. :D
 
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