Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

MasterLiberty said:

I would elaborate on that by asserting it is Black Leadership and Black Cultural Icons that perpetuate these problems within the community. Leadership is responsible for scapegoatism (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton are big in that area) and of course there are numerous examples of bad examples set by Black Icons. If every small black child grew up admiring Herman Cain and yes even President Obama (As much as I disagree with his politics I think he is a good man and a good role model for young african americans.) I think Black America would be far better served.

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Really Herman Cain was all you could come up with and your back handed mention of the President?

MasterLiberty said:

The title is evident. Who is the MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans today??

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In a free society each individual is responsible for their own troubles, all african americans do not have the same problems, they individually have struggles as do I.
Bad question, racist at its core!

johndylan1 said:

In a free society each individual is responsible for their own troubles, all african americans do not have the same problems, they individually have struggles as do I.
Bad question, racist at its core!

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To try to frame the question as racist is to look at it in a bad semantic light, phony outrage and citing racism to a sensible question is a bit reactionistic if you ask me. The question is clearly geared towards problems in African American Culture and society in the general population. We aren't talking about 'every single' black person, but are saying that many share the same struggle and face the same problems.

MasterLiberty said:

The title is evident. Who is the MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans today??

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I think it's MUCH more complicated than that. :mrgreen:

sangha said:

Then explain why most black people (who can work) do have jobs?

It looks like white people have to be encouraged to work, while black people work in spite of being encouraged to not work. If anything, it demonstrates that black people have a superior work ethic while white people are lazy. IMO, that sounds very anti-white.

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Could you explain the reasoning that you used to come to that ridiculous conclusion?

MasterLiberty said:

To try to frame the question as racist is to look at it in a bad semantic light, phony outrage and citing racism to a sensible question is a bit reactionistic if you ask me. The question is clearly geared towards problems in African American Culture and society in the general population. We aren't talking about 'every single' black person, but are saying that many share the same struggle and face the same problems.

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Such as? What social or cultural problems do you believe are unique to african americans?
Perhaps I can answer if you can define what you mean.
In my view anyone who looks for policy solutions for groups instead of policy solutions for everyone as individuals is by definition discriminatory.

For example high out of wedlock birth rates in the black community have been called a problem for blacks. It is. However it is not unique to black folks, and any policy proposal directed at solving black out of wedlock births is discriminatory. The non discriminatory policy would address the social ill, not the color of the people affected by that ill.

Cardinal said:

Here, you get this too.

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You mean like what was done with the convicts shipped to Australia??? Oddly enough the generations descended from those folks don't have the same issues and for a LONG time being descended from a convict made you a social pariah.

faithful_servant said:

You mean like what was done with the convicts shipped to Australia???

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No, not like the convicts shipped to Australia. :roll:

rabbitcaebannog said:

A staggering statistic that 38 percent of black children live in poverty. And, certain politicians continue to fight against access to birth control. It shouldn't even be a political issue as far as I'm concerned. It's pragmatic and common sense if we want to affect some kind of change. Yet, these clowns get voted in and are partly responsible for not allowing change. It's shameful.

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Who exactly is fighting against access to birth control? I know of several who fought to have birth control mandated by law, but I don't recall anyone fighting against access.

This is funny. I would imagine that most, if not all, self-respecting African Americans are chomping at the bit to get scholarly answers to this highly intellectual question. This reminds me of the jellyfish asking his mom if she knew why there was so much salt in the ocean. I laughed out loud when I saw this. It's highly cerebral indeed. Oh, wait, can you imagine? This haha moment takes me back to the sub-par undergrads in my Intellectual Heritage courses who got a free-pass (oh no they were not African American) but couldn't muster up a good essay critique. They are the ones who are quick to offer their "Rubik's Cube" logic but cannot craft a proper essay on the topic to support their crappy opinions. They are simple-minded. Their machinations are reminiscent of the same old tawdry affair with the superiority mindset. I proudly represent the African American perspective. And, I offer that for as much as a blanket diagnosis for the ills of my race be rendered here, it can be applied to virtually every race in the US. Humph! The bone-headed nerve of these self-righteous bumblers.

Cardinal said:

No, not like the convicts shipped to Australia. :roll:

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So being forcibly relocated to whole different continent and put to work as slave labor is different if the new continent is Australia??
Could you please explain why it is that the black people who were descended from people who weren't brought to this country forcibly, but still live in the same situation as those who were?
Also, could you explain why there are some phenomenal and highly admirable success stories coming from people who's ancestors were forcibly brought to this country??

faithful_servant said:

So being forcibly relocated to whole different continent and put to work as slave labor is different if the new continent is Australia??
Could you please explain why it is that the black people who were descended from people who weren't brought to this country forcibly, but still live in the same situation as those who were?
Also, could you explain why there are some phenomenal and highly admirable success stories coming from people who's ancestors were forcibly brought to this country??

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The answer is "complex problems do not have simple explanations" and "different situations are different"

Dittohead not! said:

Yes, you said that it's easier for women to make it alone now because it's easier for them to make a living and that wages are lower than they used to be. Nope, no inconsistency there, just a bit of doublethink.

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No, again, you are conflating 2 statements, it was easier for single women to live on their own following no-fault divorce and their increasing wage gains in the 1960's......and 20 years later thru today, wage gains for all lower quintile workers (particularly women) have gone stagnant or negative.

And, no, I've already said that it's easier for women to live alone now, or more to the point, to live with their illegitimate children. Perhaps that is one reason why marriage is less common than it used to be.

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I have my explanation of the same phenom, your argument is to return to marriage being an economic necessity, resulting in higher female suicide and homicide.....rather than creating greater wage gains for women and men in lower quintiles.

Selfishness is another big reason, of course, that and failing to plan for the future.

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I know, fear of violence and suicide...is selfishness, and everyone knows that continued decreased wage gains is something everyone anticipated!

sangha said:

The answer is "complex problems do not have simple explanations" and "different situations are different"

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Across the world and across history, people have been treated the way the Africans were during the slave trade, yet those people don't use that treatment as an excuse for failure. When will people stop blaming others and start taking responsibility for their own actions and their own futures? All the crap about economic disadvantages and bad stuff that happened 6 or 8 generations back is just another excuse for failure to be responsible. Everyone has an excuse, I see it all the time in my world. How about people stop blaming others and start taking responsibility? When we will they start taking the attitude that no matter what they face, they will find a way to excel?? I've met people both black, white, brown and whatever other "color label" you want to apply, who rose above the depths of their circumstances and made a better world for themselves. As long as blaming others for their problems as acceptable, there will be people who wallow in multi-generational failure. We need to stop telling people that it's OK that they failed since they were born poor and their 3X great-grandfather was a slave. We need to start looking these people in the eye and expecting them to rise up, not expecting them to perpetuate the failures of their mothers and fathers.

faithful_servant said:

Across the world and across history, people have been treated the way the Africans were during the slave trade,

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I repeat, different situations are different.

faithful_servant said:

Across the world and across history, people have been treated the way the Africans were during the slave trade, yet those people don't use that treatment as an excuse for failure. When will people stop blaming others and start taking responsibility for their own actions and their own futures? All the crap about economic disadvantages and bad stuff that happened 6 or 8 generations back is just another excuse for failure to be responsible. Everyone has an excuse, I see it all the time in my world. How about people stop blaming others and start taking responsibility? When we will they start taking the attitude that no matter what they face, they will find a way to excel?? I've met people both black, white, brown and whatever other "color label" you want to apply, who rose above the depths of their circumstances and made a better world for themselves. As long as blaming others for their problems as acceptable, there will be people who wallow in multi-generational failure. We need to stop telling people that it's OK that they failed since they were born poor and their 3X great-grandfather was a slave. We need to start looking these people in the eye and expecting them to rise up, not expecting them to perpetuate the failures of their mothers and fathers.

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Are you trying to argue that racism in America today has no effect upon minority achievement?

i hope only blacks are doing this poll if you want it to be accurate

Gimmesometruth said:

Are you trying to argue that racism in America today has no effect upon minority achievement?

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Today? Not to any significant degree, no.

Gimmesometruth said:

Are you trying to argue that racism in America today has no effect upon minority achievement?

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There's a code of uniformity and achievement in today's society that is universal and if followed will most likely lead to success. Maybe even more so for minorities over Caucasians.

Gimmesometruth said:

Are you trying to argue that racism in America today has no effect upon minority achievement?

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Gathomas88 said:

Today? Not to any significant degree, no.

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I know this is going to be a huge waste of effort since when I presented a chart covering the timespan of 1960 to 2007, you could not find a decade prior to 1970....but here goes:

The Enduring Significance of Racism: Discrimination and Delinquency Among Black American Youth

grip said:

There's a code of uniformity and achievement in today's society that is universal and if followed will most likely lead to success. Maybe even more so for minorities over Caucasians.

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You are saying that minorities need to act White.....which runs counter to the claim that racism in America is "insignificant".

Painter said:

I may not have the answer myself, or even the time or willingness to try.
But one thing that is very clear is that the problem is far more complex than the discussion that this poll allows for and far more complex than any conversation in this thread.

It is a mixed bag, and no group has clean hands.

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That is very true. For the US, this was a problem centuries in the making with feelings and moral codes that have been passed down through the generations. There have been half solutions to societal issues over the years. To point fingers at one source is naïve.

Gimmesometruth said:

I know this is going to be a huge waste of effort since when I presented a chart covering the timespan of 1960 to 2007, you could not find a decade prior to 1970....but here goes:

The Enduring Significance of Racism: Discrimination and Delinquency Among Black American Youth

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Ironically, the provided source sinks your own argument.

The Enduring Significance of Racism: Discrimination and Delinquency Among Black American Youth


Feeling victimized by "perceived" racism and discrimination is not the same thing as being a legitimate victim of actual racism and discrimination.

Case in point:

The following is an example of "perceived" racism.



What you see below are examples of actual racism.





Basically the only thing your study proves is that a lot of angry young black men (similar to the dim-bulb in the video above) like to believe that they are being discriminated against by whites, and often use that belief as an excuse to justify anti-social behavior, and even criminality, which ultimately winds up holding them back in life. Their supposed "repression" by American society becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy as such.

The study doesn't do a damn thing to demonstrate whether the "racism" these young men claim to be suffering from actually exists in any meaningful fashion. Quite frankly, I'm inclined to believe that it doesn't.

Minorities have every economic and educational opportunity whites have, and just as much right to pursue them. There are even government programs in place specifically designed to make sure that minority individuals in general, and blacks in particular, are able to capitalize on such opportunities, even if they do not have the monetary capital on hand to finance it.

There is really no valid excuse for why a person of any race or creed cannot succeed in the modern day and age, other than the simple refusal to even make an honest attempt at doing so in the first place.

Gimmesometruth said:

You are saying that minorities need to act White.....which runs counter to the claim that racism in America is "insignificant".

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And so the cycle perpetuates itself once more. :roll:

How about we just call it "not acting like a ghetto moron" and leave things at that? Why must sensible, sane, and responsible behavior be something limited to people of any one race or ethnicity in particular?

As they say, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

Gimmesometruth said:

You are saying that minorities need to act White.....which runs counter to the claim that racism in America is "insignificant".

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School me on how one acts white.. Is that a particular way.

sangha said:

I repeat, different situations are different.

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...and they also have many similarities. You want look at those bits and pieces that support the furthering of the lack of responsibility among the people in this country who seem locked into a life of poverty and I want focus on those that show that they can rise above that poverty. Which one is building a future and which one is wallowing in the past???