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Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

Who is MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans?

  • GOP

    Votes: 5 5.1%
  • Black Leadership

    Votes: 22 22.4%
  • Democrats

    Votes: 15 15.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 56 57.1%

  • Total voters
    98
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Obama is absolutely a role model for young black men, but he should really be a role model for any young man of any color. All young men should aspire to be great men when they grow up, and pick a role model that lives a life worth emulating. Race should be irrelevant.

"Should be" is the point. What you don't seem to realize is that for many it is far too relevant.
 
Not if it's true. Only race baiters find racism where it doesn't exist.

The real issue here being that determinting where it does and does not exits is a real part of the problem.
 
No. However, they are, by and large, certainly incapable of providing the same kind of financial stability and quantity of care that a two parent household tends to be.

Yes, because if a black single mother doesn't earn much money, it proves that she's incapable of earning much money

But if a white, clean cut, middle class young adult doesn't earn much money, it not his fault.
 
Who says they are? They are the product of 300 years of social, cultural and economic destruction. That's a fact.

Again, as an Irish American, I am a "victim" (by proxy, same as you) of much the same. Do you see me complaining?

Who cares? You're still not a member of a class of people who actually struggled much after being here.

You were never enslaved. You were never faced with segregation.

As a matter of fact, roughly half of the country's blacks were never faced with segregation even when it was in effect.

Within 50 years of Irish immigration into the US you were considered first class citizens.

Because we made it happen.

Frankly, look beyond the Irish. Latinos and Asian Americans have only been a major factor on the American social scene for roughly 50 years or so, and they have faced a large degree of discrimination.

They are already rising to overcome it, while African Americans continue to languish in poverty, and even backslide.

I'm sorry man, but if there's a problem here, it's not "the system." It's African Americans.

Of course it does. It has made this debate far more easy to use than the catch phrases you use to get likes on this thread. Look, it's simple - America, white America, thrived off the free labor provided by blacks for 150 years. It destroyed our culture, told us we were worthless and then sold us off for 100 years. Then, after it told us were all free and equal men, it denied us property and lynched those of us who stood against injustice for another 100 years. By the time the 1900s rolled around, it gave us inferior learning institutions, voting tests and denied us access to what every other ethnic group in this country had: wealth. So now, 50 years away from the time when that was all legal, we're supposed to be doing just as well as the rest? Haha, you're being silly.

A) Blacks only "built" the South.

B) Every new immigrant group to enter the United States has had to sacrifice its original culture. That is, quite frankly, what "America" is all about.

C) Plenty of other groups have faced that discrimination, and overcome it.

The excuses will only carry you so far, I'm afraid.

Only that's not true, the roaring 20s as they were called were a decade of prosperity for well, damn near everyone who lived in cities. So the Harlem Renaissance was not only natural but expected. At the time however, it was criticized for being a cheap copy of European culture. What's I think is far more interesting though is the fact that your own source cites poverty as the declining factor in this movement:

What's your point?
 
Blacks themselves. They encourage scapegoatism and "blaming whitey". If you're a success doing something besides ballin, slingin, or rappin, you're a sellout. If you speak coherently, you're "talking white". If you're black and support responsibility amongst your own, you're an Uncle Tom.

Black culture does great at keeping their own people down and explaining who is to blame for it.

that's probably the best answer. Poverty pimps like Sharpton and Jackson don't want blacks to solve the social pathologies plaguing their community because they extort money whining about "racism"
 
African Americans, I have seen one doing the same job I did for over 4 years. Say to me on his first and only day at work "I aint no slave" i said "hey man i did that same job for over 4 years".

what do i do at this point? he was hired to do a job but still felt like he was a slave. Whatever they have jesse and al not so sharpton telling them how they been oppressed.

Now he was doing a job i did i made 8 an hour he was making 10 an hour. But hey bricklaying is tough work once you start out as a laborer. at the time i was a bricklayer already and was making a pretty good living. But he could not see past skin color total shame.

White people never say "I ain't no slave"? I'm sure the idea was 'well, this isn't easy'. How ridiculous to have a 'story about a black person' in the first place.
 
Correct answer is not on the list. Crack.

Prior to the introduction of crack, blacks were on track to equal whites in pay, housing, education and a whole host of other issues. Crack basically stopped that and they lost ground.


that's an interesting claim that merits some examination. Before the LBJ "war on poverty" and Great Society, Black rates of illegitimacy was about the same as whites IIRC
 
You have a point. When a white person claims that something other than themselves is the cause for their lack of success, their claim might be justified. When a black person does the same, it can't possibly be justified

That depends entirely upon the actions of the black person in question.

If a person does the right thing, and is screwed over for it, they have my sympathy. Some ghetto gang-banger decrying "racism" as being behind his poverty, when he made the willful decision to drop out of school and turn to crime, does not.

I see. When you said:

the reaching out, taking and throttling you referred to meant "be clean cut, middle class, educated and have no criminal record"

Yup. You play by the rules, you work hard, and you aim to make something of yourself.

If a person is unwilling to do so, they have no right to complain.

yes, and when millions of young adults all say the same thing, there must be something to it. Unlike when millions of black people say the same thing. Then, there's nothing to it.

Again, when I see those black people actually making an effort to elevate their situation, rather than simply complaining about it, I will see about giving their complaints my ear.

Why yes again! For the very first time in history, it's hard to find a job.

Why yes again! It is harder to find a job right now than it has been in fifty years!

Yes, because if a black single mother doesn't earn much money, it proves that she's incapable of earning much money

With no degree, a single income, and a child to support by herself?

Yes.

But if a white, clean cut, middle class young adult doesn't earn much money, it not his fault.

It's called "earning potential." Look it up.
 
He should be a role model for anyone in this country, regardless of their color or his for that matter. Anyone in this country can rise to great things. You have to want it, and you have to work for it. Obama is actually also proof that you can go from food stamps to the White House in a few decades.

Good lord. Where in the world do I even start with you.

What does and does not make a "good role model" is pretty subjective so you may see someone as a poor role model but that may mean that your criteria is different. Your criteria of course not being universally accurate

Anyone in the country can rise and do great things but it is incredibly more difficult for some than it is for others

Everyone "wants it" failure to achieve does not automatically mean that they didn't "want it enough" but thanks Oprah.
 
Yes, unless you can show that the racist beliefs of those black people can somehow explain the lack of success of white people

There's a guy in the sports subforum that swears the NFL is against white receivers. Then there's all the sensationalism against white crimes and ignoring black crimes, all to make white people look bad and hide the race war. And there's AA, when a fine (but not diverse or disadvantaged) white person is denied entry to a college once if ever in a lifetime. Oooh, and don't forget, blacks can organize in their cause but white solidarity is frowned upon, that's oppression right there. Might have to change the name of the Redskins.

They suffer.
 
Yes, unless you can show that the racist beliefs of those black people can somehow explain the lack of success of white people

To the contrary, they actually do far worse. They explain much of the lack of success of black people in the United States.

If a person is unwilling to conform to the standards of the society around them (standards, I might add, which include such things as education, respect for civil society, and planning for one's future) due to the supposed "whiteness" of such pursuits, they can only expect to run into problems.
 
Whatever negative trends that occur within the black community, within America, are a product of American society. They don't exist apart from American culture, they are part of it.

Statistically that is not so. To assert that race has no bearing on many social (cultural?) trends within the US is dishonest. What other group voted 90% for Obama?
 
White people never say "I ain't no slave"? I'm sure the idea was 'well, this isn't easy'. How ridiculous to have a 'story about a black person' in the first place.

Thats because i was telling the true story of an African American telling me how he was not a slave. same job i did for over 4 years, he worked one day never came back.
i loved it work hard stayed in awesome shape built some muscle! Hot and hard work.
 
That depends entirely upon the actions of the black person in question.

If a person does the right thing, and is screwed over for it, they have my sympathy. Some ghetto gang-banger decrying "racism" as being behind his poverty, when he made the willful decision to drop out of school and turn to crime, does not.

Because the only people who believe that racism plays a role in the problems that black people experience are gang bangers :roll:

Yup. You play by the rules, you work hard, and you aim to make something of yourself.

If a person is unwilling to do so, they have no right to complain.

Unless you're black. Then, your lack of success is due to the fact that you didn't reach out and take success the way the Irish did years ago (though for some reason, the youth today seem unable to do the same----but that's not their fault)

Why yes again! It is harder to find a job right now than it has been in fifty years!

But only for young people. Older people have no problems finding jobs. All they have to do is reach out and grab one. They make it happen!!
 
Because the only people who believe that racism plays a role in the problems that black people experience are gang bangers :roll:

Unless you're black. Then, your lack of success is due to the fact that you didn't reach out and take success the way the Irish did years ago (though for some reason, the youth today seem unable to do the same----but that's not their fault)

The African American community has higher drop out rates, higher crime rates, higher incarceration rates, higher illegitimacy rates, higher STD rates, higher murder rates, higher death rates, higher obesity rates, and higher abortion rates than any other group in the modern United States.

And you wonder why they are lagging behind?

No one is imposing these things upon them. African Americans choose to do these things of their own accord, and they pay the price for them.

But only for young people. Older people have no problems finding jobs. All they have to do is reach out and grab one. They make it happen!!

Older people have jobs already, and where they do not, they have all-important "work experience."

This counts for quite a bit.

Besides, no one is saying that young people should stop looking for jobs. I'm simply pointing out the fact that our economy happens to be a train wreck at the moment due to the after-effects of the 2008 recession.

This is something that happened to us, not something we brought upon ourselves.
 
Please, you'll excite the ladies :)

Masonry will keep you into great shape until it breaks your back, and it always eventually breaks your back. but its great in younger years. I have a gut more now that i drive a rig.
 
The African American community has higher drop out rates, higher crime rates, higher incarceration rates, higher illegitimacy rates, higher STD rates, higher murder rates, higher death rates, higher obesity rates, and higher abortion rates than any other group in the modern United States.

And you wonder why they are lagging behind?

Yes, we have already determined that the problems of black people are entirely of their own making, but the problems of young people are entirely caused by something else.


No one is imposing these things upon them. African Americans choose to do these things of their own accord, and they pay the price for them.

So now you've given up on your blather about how culture and the media influence youth?



Older people have jobs already, and where they do not, they have all-important "work experience."

Yeah, it's so unfair for employers to value experience. It's almost like they're deliberately oppressing young people. That never happens to black people

Besides, no one is saying that young people should stop looking for jobs. I'm simply pointing out the fact that our economy happens to be a train wreck at the moment due to the after-effects of the 2008 recession.

This is something that happened to us, not something we brought upon ourselves.

Unlike the gravy train that blacks have experience in this nations history. What's happening to blacks is entirely of their own doing. The white youth are blameless.
 
More than five, less than a thousand.



Huh?

I was referring to this statement:
Blacks themselves. They encourage scapegoatism and "blaming whitey".................

Black culture does great at keeping their own people down and explaining who is to blame for it.

You categorize "blacks" as behaving (ref quote)

This implies that all blacks behave the same way

Yet you state that you know blacks that behave otherwise

How can you make a blanket statement about the behavior of an entire race of people then make a statement about people from that race that don't behave that way.
 
How is that a myth when your post fails to address every other claim?
If 5 minutes of searching shows your claim of "education" is BS, then it is up to you to show any of the rest as being true.

GL with that.
 
Yes, we have already determined that the problems of black people are entirely of their own making, but the problems of young people are entirely caused by something else.

Did you not argue in a recent thread that modern young people were actually much better behaved on average than past generations?

What then, would you argue they have done which makes them in any way "responsible" for their current predicament?

So now you've given up on your blather about how culture and the media influence youth?

To the contrary, culture and media play major roles. Black culture and media are worse than most, as a matter of fact.

If you had been paying attention at all, you would realize that this very culture is actually the primary thing about "Black America" that I have been arguing needs to change if African Americans are to get ahead.

However, culture can ultimately only influence behavior, not dictate it. Anyone who wishes to rise above it, can.

Yeah, it's so unfair for employers to value experience.

Did I ever say such a thing?

I don't believe I did.
 
Yeah, and traffic laws are biased against licensed drivers.

I swear...

Actually I have a number of academic journals clearly revealing that the drugs laws were specifically made to target minorities such as blacks, Mexicans and Chinese. I would be more than happy to send them over to you.
 
Actually I have a number of academic journals clearly revealing that the drugs laws were specifically made to target minorities such as blacks, Mexicans and Chinese. I would be more than happy to send them over to you.

Just the names would suffice. I've researched academic journals plenty. I'd love to look up some information. Thanks.
 
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