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Do independents think they are cool?[W:43]

Do independents think they are cool?

  • yes

    Votes: 21 77.8%
  • no

    Votes: 6 22.2%

  • Total voters
    27
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

I'll say this as I've said before. I read you, and it's as if I wrote it.

I differ with both parties on issues that are key to the party. I tend to vote more for the Republicans than the Democrats because on the issues that are really important to me, I disgaree primarily with the Democrats.

In my perfect world we'd find the 2016 version of Goldwater.

I cast my first presidential vote for Goldwater. I consider him my political mentor. Then When I campaigned for Perot, I mixed a little of him into it. I do not trust either party, both owe their hearts and souls to the big moneyed people who pay them, donate to them their millions and sometimes tens of millions. Then those elected politicians turn around and try to convince us the ten million received from Goldman Sachs or whoever has no influence of the laws they pass.

The really sad part of this, the vast majority of voters believe the politician when they say this. If these moneyed folks aren't stupid, if they didn't get back more in return for their investments in our elected politicians, they wouldn't invest their money.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

I cast my first presidential vote for Goldwater. I consider him my political mentor. Then When I campaigned for Perot, I mixed a little of him into it. I do not trust either party, both owe their hearts and souls to the big moneyed people who pay them, donate to them their millions and sometimes tens of millions. Then those elected politicians turn around and try to convince us the ten million received from Goldman Sachs or whoever has no influence of the laws they pass.

The really sad part of this, the vast majority of voters believe the politician when they say this. If these moneyed folks aren't stupid, if they didn't get back more in return for their investments in our elected politicians, they wouldn't invest their money.

As an independent, I do not trust the two major parties either. However I do not trust the third parties either. I just vote my conservative philosophy. I did not join in on the Perot movement. I did not see him as that much different. Between him, Clinton, and Bush Sr, in my opinion Bush Sr was the safest choice. I think Perot was a bit naïve and let himself be used by the Clinton camp over that phony story about a republican dirty trick squad planning to crash his daughter's wedding. His temporary exit then re-entry into the race played a large part in delivering the race to Clinton.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

As an independent, I do not trust the two major parties either. However I do not trust the third parties either. I just vote my conservative philosophy. I did not join in on the Perot movement. I did not see him as that much different. Between him, Clinton, and Bush Sr, in my opinion Bush Sr was the safest choice. I think Perot was a bit naïve and let himself be used by the Clinton camp over that phony story about a republican dirty trick squad planning to crash his daughter's wedding. His temporary exit then re-entry into the race played a large part in delivering the race to Clinton.

I think what did Bush the first in was him reneging on his no new taxes pledge. Then his campaign seemed like he didn't care if he won or last until the last two weeks or so.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

I think what did Bush the first in was him reneging on his no new taxes pledge. Then his campaign seemed like he didn't care if he won or last until the last two weeks or so.

I think he cared whether or not he won. He just not take his competition seriously until it was too late. I certainly don't think Perot was the only reason he lost. His violating his no new taxes pledge was a big issue as well.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

I think he cared whether or not he won. He just not take his competition seriously until it was too late. I certainly don't think Perot was the only reason he lost. His violating his no new taxes pledge was a big issue as well.

That may be. If one looked at Clinton, a draft dodger and a womanizer it would be hard to take him too serious. Perot withdrew and came back. I continued to support him, but a lot of the enthusiasm was gone and quite a lot of energy spent too. You might be on to something there, not taking his competition seriously. I watch his campaign, I kept on wondering if he really didn't care, but if you think you got it made, will win in a cake walk, that is very possible.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

That may be. If one looked at Clinton, a draft dodger and a womanizer it would be hard to take him too serious. Perot withdrew and came back. I continued to support him, but a lot of the enthusiasm was gone and quite a lot of energy spent too. You might be on to something there, not taking his competition seriously. I watch his campaign, I kept on wondering if he really didn't care, but if you think you got it made, will win in a cake walk, that is very possible.

Hillary made the same error in judgment - and lost. And it appears that a lot of the enthusiasm she garnered back then has dwindled over the years, also. Time will tell.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

That may be. If one looked at Clinton, a draft dodger and a womanizer it would be hard to take him too serious. Perot withdrew and came back. I continued to support him, but a lot of the enthusiasm was gone and quite a lot of energy spent too. You might be on to something there, not taking his competition seriously. I watch his campaign, I kept on wondering if he really didn't care, but if you think you got it made, will win in a cake walk, that is very possible.

I really do think Bush thought it was going to be a cake walk. Unless a president really screws up badly like Carter did, it's hard to beat an incumbent...but that incumbent still has to take the race seriously.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

Hillary made the same error in judgment - and lost. And it appears that a lot of the enthusiasm she garnered back then has dwindled over the years, also. Time will tell.

The Democrats have a lot of enthusiasm for her. But as early as it is, no one of any stature has surfaced to give them a credible alternative. I have said many times that I do not think Hillary will be their parties nominee. A fresh young face won everything for the Democrats in 2008 whereas the old hat politicians lost for them in 2000 and in 2004. Hillary has been on a downward spiral since she left as Secretary of state. Her favorable rating was around 63%, an outstanding rating. But Gallup latest on her puts her at 54%. That is still pretty darn good and probably good enough to win any presidential election, if it stays at that number. But her trend is down, not up and not staying the same.

I think she is starting to grate on people. but as you stated, Time will tell.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

Hillary made the same error in judgment - and lost. And it appears that a lot of the enthusiasm she garnered back then has dwindled over the years, also. Time will tell.

Hillary thought she would simply be crowned with the nomination. I think if she runs in 2016, she is in for major humiliation. Her real shot was supposed to come in 2004. Bush won by the slimmest of margins and she felt that he would be unremarkable and without a mandate. The terrorist attacks of 9/11/01 changed that. The country rallied around the president and she knew 2004 was gone. Her backup plan was to run in 2008.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

I really do think Bush thought it was going to be a cake walk. Unless a president really screws up badly like Carter did, it's hard to beat an incumbent...but that incumbent still has to take the race seriously.

Yes, I see what you mean. Bush the first not taking his opponents seriously could leave the impression that he didn't care if he won or lost. I think Clinton, Bush the second and Obama were vulnerable and beatable on their second run. But one must have the right candidate. Reagan, not even George Washington could have beaten him. Eisenhower was in the same boat with Reagan, no one the Democrats had to offer could have beaten him in 1996 either.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

Yes, I think I'm cool.

I want to avoid strict ideology as much as I can. The reason for that is that I don't believe the world operates according to invented political ideologies; and that the human world -- and it's derivative systems, institutions, economies, etc. -- are in a constant state of change. So what public policies work today, may not always work tomorrow. Societies have and will always change. Thus rather than being bogged down in a set ideology, I want to strive to support the "best" solution as possible. That's not is what is "best" in accordance to preconceived ideological assertions of truth, but in respect to what is actually happening in this world.

libertarian is an ideology...as well as a party. Has a platform and everything. If there's such a thing as a true independent, i either haven't met any or they get dismissed as psychotic/antisocial.

I like your attitude, but to actually put it into practice is easier said than done
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

libertarian is an ideology...as well as a party. Has a platform and everything. If there's such a thing as a true independent, i either haven't met any or they get dismissed as psychotic/antisocial.

I like your attitude, but to actually put it into practice is easier said than done
It's what I closest match up with. I do not adhere to strict libertarianism, but embrace a form of consequentialism: Consequentialist libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

I don't think Independents are cool, I frickin know we are. :2razz:
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

Yes, I see what you mean. Bush the first not taking his opponents seriously could leave the impression that he didn't care if he won or lost. I think Clinton, Bush the second and Obama were vulnerable and beatable on their second run. But one must have the right candidate. Reagan, not even George Washington could have beaten him. Eisenhower was in the same boat with Reagan, no one the Democrats had to offer could have beaten him in 1996 either.

Reagan had the ability to talk past the media, other politicians, and directly to the American people. That's why he won two landslide victories...the second one bigger then the first.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

Reagan had the ability to talk past the media, other politicians, and directly to the American people. That's why he won two landslide victories...the second one bigger then the first.

FDR, Reagan and to a lesser extent Clinton could connect with the people in ways no other president has done.
 
Re: Do independents think they are cool?

The very definition of an Independent in politics is in part that they could not be categorized because they have no place in the political system. Even though I don't consider myself a supporter of Democrats or Republicans, I don't consider myself anywhere the Paulites, in terms of ideology. It's just that no major party correctly suits me; this is the case with a two-party system. If our system was arranged differently, and social liberals or conservatives who are at this point very partisan toward their respective parties, would be Independents. There are other countries where a party suits my ideology enough that I choose to identify with that party.

And FTR, I consider myself more of a supporter of the Green Party in the U.S., at least to some extent, than a full Independent, but Green's have virtually no chance of winning here 99.9% of the time, and aren't always even on the ballot.
 
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