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Less Government vs. Better Government

Less Government or Better Government?


  • Total voters
    57
Historically, big government doesn't work better.

I'm not interested in whether you think big government has historically worked better or less.
 
I'm not interested in whether you think big government works better or less.

It isn't an opinion, it's a fact. The larger a government gets, the wider the door is opened for corruption, bureaucracy, and abuse. Just look at what the VA and education are doing. We've been pumping more and more money into them for years, and they haven't improved in any way. In fact, in education, we fall further behind other first world countries every year. I could draw examples from any number of other branches of American government, or from any Communist country ever formed. Even further back, you can look at what happened to the Romans. Or the Persians, the British Empire, the Mongolians...

Once a government reaches a certain size, it becomes doomed to extinction through its own incompetence. I repeat: this is not an opinion. It is fact.
 
'Better government,' if that's what you want to call it. It's not government's duty to do everything, and I would like to see the government remove itself fully or partially from corporate welfare, controlled substance prohibition, acts of imperialism and aggression, and many other areas. Just because a government is acting incompetently in a certain area, however, doesn't mean it has to be. Just because our healthcare and education systems are flawed doesn't mean that removing funding will solve the problem; in fact it will make the problem worse. It all depends on how you spend your money, not whether or not money is being spent. One of the biggest myths in American politics is that the "size" of the government is the source of its problems.

One more tidbit: Not a single congressman/woman in Washington preaching small government is actually voting for "small government" policy.
 
Sadly its hard to imagine government doing much right. DMV, post office, and even the military is rather poorly run...

Compared to what? I betcha I can list a lot of private sector companies that are more poorly run.

Can UPS deliver a letter to a neighboring state next day for 47¢?

It's all relative.
 
It might not be the cause, but it sure as hell isn't the solution.

And what is your proof of this? Why is the government implementing policy itself an bad thing? Earlier, you mentioned education. It's true that we are falling behind in education, but that is due to the privatization occurring with charter schools. The best nations in education, Finland leading ahead of the rest, don't use charter schools and reject privatization of education. There is decentralization of education within the system, as opposed to Common Core and standardized tests, but both strategies would be considered "big government."
 
It seems to me that it is more likely a sociopath would desire a big government than a small government. You can easily charm people into thinking the power that the government is taking for itself is for the best, but it's bit hard to charm people and at the same say we will do nothing for your complaint or say, sorry, we don't have the power to do what you want.

Sociopaths engage in anti-social behavior and thought, not caring for the well being of others. Government is an invention of our society, and big government attempts to fulfill all of our societies needs (which is why it is big).

So I wouldn't think that people with an anti-social mentality would be for big government. That would be counter-logical.

If anything, radical tea party types are more likely to tend to be sociopaths, uncaring or indifferent towards others, thus sociopaths would tend to be for smaller government and less governmental benefits, such as welfare, unemployment compensation, social security benifits, etc.
 
Sociopaths engage in anti-social behavior and thought, not caring for the well being of others. Government is an invention of our society, and big government attempts to fulfill all of our societies needs (which is why it is big).

So I wouldn't think that people with an anti-social mentality would be for big government. That would be counter-logical.

If anything, radical tea party types are more likely to tend to be sociopaths, uncaring or indifferent towards others, thus sociopaths would tend to be for smaller government and less governmental benefits, such as welfare, unemployment compensation, social security benifits, etc.

There were approximately 0 sexual assaults at the major Tea party rallies, and to date they have caused $0 in damages to public property. Care to look up the statistics from the OWS riots?

Here are the characteristics of a sociopath. Please pay special attention to the ones in bold.


Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."


Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.


Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
 
Compared to what? I betcha I can list a lot of private sector companies that are more poorly run.

Can UPS deliver a letter to a neighboring state next day for 47¢?

It's all relative.

The VA processed their first computer file in 1985. They haven't updated their software since then.

Obamacare's website speaks for itself. I don't have to comment on that.

3% of federal employees owe back taxes. 1,100 of those employed with the IRS itself got a total of 1 million in bonuses.

And here's eleven screw-ups that Americans picked as the worst in 2011. The biggest government ‘oops’ of 2011 - The Federal Eye - The Washington Post

Need I go on?
 
Historically, big government doesn't work better.

Historically, it has certainly worked better than minimum government, like they have in many African nations, and countries like Somolia.

If you were to divide all the nations into two lists, one list being the ones with the most government, and the other into a list of countries with the least government, and then figure the average GDP per citizen for both lists, I'm pretty darned sure that the GDP per person of the big government group would be much higher than the small government group.

Even communist countries are far more economically successful than countries that have minimum government.
 
It isn't an opinion, it's a fact. The larger a government gets, the wider the door is opened for corruption, bureaucracy, and abuse.

Countries with small governments have just as much, if not more, corruption and abuse, although much of that corruption and abuse might be shifted to the private sector.

You don't think that the private sector warlords of Somlia are corrupt?
 
There were approximately 0 sexual assaults at the major Tea party rallies, and to date they have caused $0 in damages to public property. Care to look up the statistics from the OWS riots?

Here are the characteristics of a sociopath. Please pay special attention to the ones in bold.


Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."


Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.


Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.


Angry Tea Party Conservative assaults interviewer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbc064Uwax4



Protester Assaulted by Violent Tea Party Members at Palin McCain Rally
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVD5pdS9EOw



Glenn Beck Teabagger Rally - Hostile reactions to questions put to Teabaggers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFGUcA06DVY


Glenn Beck Fan assaults protester at "Restoring Honor" rally
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXvzYch9Jkg


Teabagger Violence Mars Tax Day Rally With Sen. Marco Rubio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4BU8pfz2O4


TP/GOP is just re-branding of the Birchers, with better messaging of their hate
 
And what is your proof of this? Why is the government implementing policy itself an bad thing? Earlier, you mentioned education. It's true that we are falling behind in education, but that is due to the privatization occurring with charter schools. The best nations in education, Finland leading ahead of the rest, don't use charter schools and reject privatization of education. There is decentralization of education within the system, as opposed to Common Core and standardized tests, but both strategies would be considered "big government."

The charter schools are the best we have. Why would you want to get rid of that? If we had Finland's grades, they wouldn't need to exist. Sadly, we are not Finland. In the meantime, I don't think we should be dragging down the best to everyone else's level. And don't think I'm saying this from the point of view of some one-percenter, or whatever you liberals call rich people. I go to Toombs County High School, where the dropout rate is about 30%. Every day at my school, I get to see some of the crappiest America has to offer. Some of the people I attend class with don't even read on a middle school level. And it's because they never have and never will care about their education. In Finland, most of the people seem to actually care about succeeding in life, unlike the unwashed masses on this side of the pond that are so enthralled by all those liberalism-touting celebrities that infect every aspect of our culture. I can't aford a private school, but that doesn't mean i want to strip that away from those who can. So while you get to condescend the rest of America from your tower of self-envisioned superiority, I get front row seats to watching our nation's future rot away. So don't talk to me about getting rid of charter schools. The people who come out of there are the best bet we have.
 
The VA processed their first computer file in 1985. They haven't updated their software since then.

Obamacare's website speaks for itself. I don't have to comment on that.

3% of federal employees owe back taxes. 1,100 of those employed with the IRS itself got a total of 1 million in bonuses.

And here's eleven screw-ups that Americans picked as the worst in 2011. The biggest government ‘oops’ of 2011 - The Federal Eye - The Washington Post

Need I go on?

Lots of companies still use antiquated computer systems. Some don't have computer systems at all. Healthcare.gov was developed by a private company, and yes, at one point it sucked, but it has been fully corrected, it worked flawlessly when I purchased my insurance from it. Have you never been to a private sector website that was temporarily not functioning? Happens all the time, and then those things get corrected. You don't think that any private sector employees owe any back taxes? And surely you remember the fact that failed wall street firms were still giving out billions in bonuses don't you?

It's easy to point out flaws, they happen in every system, and every entity, government and private sector.

By your logic, since the private sector has flaws, we should also have a small private sector, that doesn't produce much or employ many people. Geesh, what a whacko idea.
 
The charter schools are the best we have.

Some are quite good, some are horrible. You probably need to do some more research on that. We also have some very fine regular public schools, particularly in richer areas where the parents actually give a damn about education.

The only real advantage that charter schools have is that they do have kids who have parents who care about education. their biggest disadvantage is that often, lots of those families didn't fit in well into regular schools, because they may have some whacky ideas about the way a school should be operated or about what curriculum should be taught.
 
Every day at my school, I get to see some of the crappiest America has to offer. Some of the people I attend class with don't even read on a middle school level. And it's because they never have and never will care about their education.

Sounds like a social problem, not a governmental problem. the best our government can do is to provide the opportunity for every student to learn, but it can't make then care or learn.
 
Lots of companies still use antiquated computer systems. Some don't have computer systems at all. Healthcare.gov was developed by a private company, and yes, at one point it sucked, but it has been fully corrected, it worked flawlessly when I purchased my insurance from it. Have you never been to a private sector website that was temporarily not functioning? Happens all the time, and then those things get corrected. You don't think that any private sector employees owe any back taxes? And surely you remember the fact that failed wall street firms were still giving out billions in bonuses don't you?

It's easy to point out flaws, they happen in every system, and every entity, government and private sector.


By your logic, since the private sector has flaws, we should also have a small private sector, that doesn't produce much or employ many people. Geesh, what a whacko idea.

Companies that have four years to make a website have no excuse for creating such a crappy product. Perhaps its inherent crappiness had something to do with one of Michelle's college friends being hired?

There's a difference. Businesses have an incentive to be as efficient as possible. If they don't work right, they either get a easy job screwing up for the government, or they go out of business because nobody wants to buy their crappy products. With a government, there's no competition. You can be as crappy as you want, because people are just going to keep voting in the same imbeciles, failures, and scumbags. Again. And again. And again.

I guarantee you, there is not a single ****ing business larger than one building that doesn't use a computer, let alone something the size of our government. Oh wait, that's right. There isn't a business in the world that is as big as our government. Because the government is too damn big! Corrupt businesses like the bankers responsible for our economic crisis got away with what they did because they're in bed with our politicians. Meanwhile, the US is 17 trillion dollars in debt, and nobody in Washington is doing anything about it!

And as for the VA, usually, businesses with outdated software aren't responsible for veterans dying on a waiting list to get a doctor to see why they feel sick. usually, businesses with outdated software don't have the job of filing the claims of millions of men and women who put their lives on the line so you didn't have to. And usually, there's a business with up to date software around to take the position of a business that doesn't. But that's not how government works.
 
Sounds like a social problem, not a governmental problem. the best our government can do is to provide the opportunity for every student to learn, but it can't make then care or learn.


So may as well throw in the ones that show talent with all the losers, then make them all learn the same material at the same speed! What a perfect system!
 
So may as well throw in the ones that show talent with all the losers, then make them all learn the same material at the same speed! What a perfect system!

Far from perfect, but apparently the best alternative that you have. So why don't you just make more money and go to a perfect private school? After all, you are a libertarian, right? Surely the 'rents aren't slackers living off da welfare.

Now me, I'm a big supporter of education and believe that we should do whatever it takes, including additional funding, to do whatever we can do to improve our schools. I can tell by your writing that you are one with talent, and I agree that it sucks that you are tossed in with a bunch of losers.

Please continue contributing on this forum, some of us want to hear what you have to say. And welcome to DP!
 
Far from perfect, but apparently the best alternative that you have. So why don't you just make more money and go to a perfect private school? After all, you are a libertarian, right? Surely the 'rents aren't slackers living off da welfare.

Now me, I'm a big supporter of education and believe that we should do whatever it takes, including additional funding, to do whatever we can do to improve our schools. I can tell by your writing that you are one with talent, and I agree that it sucks that you are tossed in with a bunch of losers. Please continue contributing on this forum, some of us want to hear what you have to say.

If doing more of the same is so great, then how come peeka chaka no wookiee boonawa tweepie Solo? ho ho hoooo.

images


Liberals: 0
Libertarians: 0
Jabba the Hutt: 1
 
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Companies that have four years to make a website have no excuse for creating such a crappy product.
I'm just wondering, but did you actually go to that website to purchase healthcare insurance? Or are you just going by what you read?

Perhaps its inherent crappiness had something to do with one of Michelle's college friends being hired?

Probably. Cronyism is an issue everywhere.

There's a difference. Businesses have an incentive to be as efficient as possible. If they don't work right, they either get a easy job screwing up for the government, or they go out of business because nobody wants to buy their crappy products. With a government, there's no competition. You can be as crappy as you want, because people are just going to keep voting in the same imbeciles, failures, and scumbags. Again. And again. And again.

I guarantee you, there is not a single ****ing business larger than one building that doesn't use a computer, let alone something the size of our government. Oh wait, that's right. There isn't a business in the world that is as big as our government. Because the government is too damn big! Corrupt businesses like the bankers responsible for our economic crisis got away with what they did because they're in bed with our politicians. Meanwhile, the US is 17 trillion dollars in debt, and nobody in Washington is doing anything about it!

Sure they are, they are driving up that debt every day!

You sound like a super intellegent person, you might want to actually start learning more about monetary policy, you will probably find it fascinating. Not just what tea party types believe, but also check out stuff like Keynsian economics, and MMT, and the dozens of other related issues. Ever consider majoring in economics in college?

And as for the VA, usually, businesses with outdated software aren't responsible for veterans dying on a waiting list to get a doctor to see why they feel sick. usually, businesses with outdated software don't have the job of filing the claims of millions of men and women who put their lives on the line so you didn't have to. And usually, there's a business with up to date software around to take the position of a business that doesn't. But that's not how government works.

So you think that an outdated computer system is why that happened? That's news to me. What a simple think to fix.
 
If doing more of the same is so great, then how come peeka chaka no wookiee boonawa tweepie Solo? ho ho hoooo.

images


Liberals: 0
Libertarians: 0
Jabba the Hutt:b1

You already used that once today. You exceeded your limit.
 
I'm just wondering, but did you actually go to that website to purchase healthcare insurance? Or are you just going by what you read?



Probably. Cronyism is an issue everywhere.



Sure they are, they are driving up that debt every day!

You sound like a super intellegent person, you might want to actually start learning more about monetary policy, you will probably find it fascinating. Not just what tea party types believe, but also check out stuff like Keynsian economics, and MMT, and the dozens of other related issues. Ever consider majoring in economics in college?



So you think that an outdated computer system is why that happened? That's news to me. What a simple think to fix.

In the defense of Kenyanesian, our economy was saved by WWII. And no, I am not going to major in politics. I'm doing communications and political science. have fun imagining me as the next great demagogue!
 
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