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We Don’t Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

We Don’t Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind


  • Total voters
    59
The military didn't put them anywhere until AFTER they signed up and swore the oath.

And what oath did the military give to him? That the minute he was no longer mentally or physically fit they would abandon him to the enemy? That is certainly not how we treated "songbird" McCain.
 
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I didn't address it because I didn't feel it was relevant. Just because it was mentioned before, doesn't mean people find it acceptable.



I disagree with your logic that we should just release them because we can capture (again) or kill them. These guys were important to the opposition, that they will rally and fight harder is not a desirable outcome.

Actually their release was less than a year away regardless of the swap. As "enemy combatants" we cannot hold them after we cease hostilities in Afghanistan.
 
I voted disagree because we still have MIA/POWs.
 
I voted disagree because we still have MIA/POWs.

Currently, 1,643 Americans are "unaccounted for" in Southeast Asia or MIA:


North Vietnam : 469
South Vietnam : 806
Laos : 308
Cambodia : 53
China : 7

After the fall of Saigon for the next 20 years live sightings of Americans or Caucasians were reported, but since our government and people basically wanted to wash their hands of Vietnam, most of the sightings went uninvestigated. Rumors abounded about POW's left behind that were not turned over according to the Paris Peace Pact.

Here is some more info:

By comparison, over 78,000 are missing from World War II and over 8,000 are missing from the Korean War. Consider these facts:

The missing in Vietnam are slightly more than 3 percent of the over 58,000 casualties suffered by U.S. forces in Vietnam.

In WWII, the 78,000-plus missing represent over 14 percent of the casualties. Remember, WWII was worldwide and included many naval and air engagements; if a destroyer or cruiser was sunk, several hundred men would be lost. No such incidents occurred in the Vietnam War
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In Korea, the over 8,000 missing represent approximately 14 percent of the casualties. A large percentage of the "missing" in Korea were actually buried by U.S. forces in battlefield gravesites or in temporary cemeteries, which were later abandoned when Communist forces drove south. Many of these gravesites are in North Korea. And, over 800 unidentified Americans (10 percent of the missing) are buried in the Punchbowl National Cemetery in Hawaii.

I do wonder how many of the old foggies now defending the swap for Bergdahl were back in the late 70's and 80's saying that our, Vietnam Vets, got what they deserved. For the longest time we Vietnam Vets were looked down on and scorned by quite a lot of the American Public.
 
And what oath did the military give to him? That the minute he was no longer mentally or physically fit they would abandon him to the enemy? That is certainly not how we treated "songbird" McCain.

No, that is not how McCain was treated. That you would think that shows you know nothing of McCain's story. I suggest you google him and do some reading. As to your first point, not how it works, you join and take an oath to follow their rules, not the other way around.
 
Sure, but the ones who were there against their will, we just left them there, thus we do leave our men and women in uniform behind.

No. We did not leave anyone who wanted to come home. Some stayed because they wanted to stay.:peace
 
No. We did not leave anyone who wanted to come home. Some stayed because they wanted to stay.:peace

So you're just redefining those people who were being held against their will as "people who wanted to stay". Gotcha.
 
No. They were offered departure. They declined the offer.:peace

So they chose to stay in cages at gunpoint. Suuuuuure they did. :roll:
 
So they chose to stay in cages at gunpoint. Suuuuuure they did. :roll:

No. They were no longer prisoners. They had integrated into the society of their former captors. Almost all had married. They preferred to stay, and preferred not to communicate with their US families and/or friends. Their reasons varied. :peace
 
It's far too early to render a verdict on Bergdahl. We need his side of the story and a military investigation. Then we can say something of meaning. Until then, we're connecting dots in a field of unclear, distorted, and incomplete evidence.
 
Maybe the enthusiasm he had when he volunteered disappearedwhen he faced the cruel reality of what was going on in Afghanistan.

Yeah well, that is why one has to think very carefully before signing on the dotted line.
But my big question is, how is it possible that his flaws weren't observed long prior to this incident?
As far as military service is concerned he very clearly did HAVE character flaws, character flaws which, in my humble opinion, made him unfit to serve.

He could have been very happy serving in a non military capacity in some NGO, for instance.

But that doesn't change the fact that he deserves a lift home.
If the military wishes to discipline him, that's fine.
But it is good and proper that we brought him home.
 
There are reports out there that he aided the Taliban, teaching them small unit tactics and how to use phones for IED's.

They didn't need an American, Bergdahl or any other, to teach them how to use phones as IED's and they didn't need any foreigners to teach them small unit tactics either.
Taliban, AQ, and the rest of the insurgent/terrorist groups have known how to use phones to trigger IED's since before the FIRST Gulf War and not only that, they're also skilled in lo-tech tactics like using washing machine timers as well.

Stop trying to make it sound like Bergdahl was some magical operative trained in the dark arts.
At the very worst, he was an ineffective soldier and little else who slipped through the cracks and lost his nerve in theater, and he had an incredibly stupid lapse of judgment which might have cost some lives.
 
At some point every POW will eventually talk after being tortured, even the military understands this.

"You give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and a half hour and I'll have him confessing to the Sharon Tate murders."
Jesse Ventura
 
I am not asking you to try and judge him. I am asking for third party evidence of how a man can be decreed a deserter and decreed a traitor without a trial.

Because he is one. He shouldn't be punished as one until he's been tried, sure. But it is the act, not the conviction that makes him one.
 
They didn't need an American, Bergdahl or any other, to teach them how to use phones as IED's and they didn't need any foreigners to teach them small unit tactics either.

Which was actually brought up in the interviews with the Taliban where they claimed he was doing this - that they thought his instruction was sort of basic and poor, because they knew all that stuff already.

Taliban, AQ, and the rest of the insurgent/terrorist groups have known how to use phones to trigger IED's since before the FIRST Gulf War and not only that, they're also skilled in lo-tech tactics like using washing machine timers as well.

.....that is a broader brush than you may want to paint with. There are plenty of stupid / unskilled / untaught VEO members and affiliates out there.
 
http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/article_6aa17163-d75e-5f2d-89d5-f28482441c00.html

On Thursday half a million “IMPEACH OBAMA FOR LEAVING AN AMERICAN BEHIND IN AFGHANISTAN” signs were found by sanitation workers next to a dumpster behind the Washington-based headquarters of the Republican National Committee.

G.O.P. chairman Rence Priebus said," We know nothing about the litter found in the alley behind our national office. We suspect this is part of an orchestrated mainstream media smear campaign. For the record, we are opposed to littering."

So let's all just admit that this has whole thing is just a big game.
It really doesn't matter if Obama had brought the guy home or hadn't.
The Repugnicans had plans to skewer him either way.
 
Because he is one. He shouldn't be punished as one until he's been tried, sure. But it is the act, not the conviction that makes him one.

Question.

Under military law doesn't he have the presumption of innocence that civilians have?

My understanding is that one of the required elements elements for desertion is that he intended to permanently be away from his unit. Doesn't that mean that someone needs to talk yo him and figure out his intentions before even charging him with desertion?
 
Question.

Under military law doesn't he have the presumption of innocence that civilians have?

Not really. In the military the standard is preponderance of evidence, not without-a-doubt.

My understanding is that one of the required elements elements for desertion is that he intended to permanently be away from his unit. Doesn't that mean that someone needs to talk yo him and figure out his intentions before even charging him with desertion?

No. It simply requires that that probability be established to the satisfaction of the reviewing officers.
 
Excuses, excuses. Easier than actual acknowledgment.

.....it is an excuse to point out that the Secretary of Defense is part of an embattled administration?

:shrug: of course Hagel is going to defend his boss. It would be extremely problematic if he didn't. Hell, he might very well deserve to be fired if he didn't. I'll put the actual testimony of the veterans who were there against a political guy defending another political guy any day of the week as far as "acknowledgement" goes.
 
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