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Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

Should we pay reparations to the African American community?

  • We should pay reparations to the African American communtiy

    Votes: 15 10.6%
  • We should not pay reparations to the African American community

    Votes: 126 89.4%

  • Total voters
    141
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middle aged white english professors just know these things, Owl. Back out now before he tells you to check your privilege. ;)



Bingo. Well said.

The following is not well said

But government policy that encourages black people to see themselves as the oppressed, as the disadvantaged, as victims of slavery and that discourages all the best things that help people of all cultures and ethnic groups and races to succeed has consigned whole sub groups of black people to crushing poverty and believing there is no way out of it for them unless the government does it for them.

It's garbage because it ignores the FACT that SYSTEMIC GOVERNMENT RACISM was a big factor in creating the problem in the first place. Not only that, but it ignores the FACT that it took government intervention to stop the cruel injustices that were inflicted on blacks. Mr. Sowell, and other Uncle Toms like him appear to think that if they were alive during the time of Jefferson, Washington, and Madison, that they would be the equals of such slave owners and would have their own slaves working for them for free.
 
So you're saying we should make reparations to make white people feel better? Or to 'benefit' whites, as a positive action?

No what I'm saying is that I'm wasting my breath, and sometimes you have to leave things to real higher powers to sort things out.
 
It's garbage because it ignores the FACT that SYSTEMIC GOVERNMENT RACISM was a big factor in creating the problem in the first place.

Sure. For example, we created the minimum wage, deliberately attempting to price low-skill blacks out of the labor market and keep them trapped in poverty (and, the original progenitors of the idea hoped, cause them to become reduced as a portion of the populace). In no way does that make the quoted section garbage, as it (and, this is important) continues to be true.

Not only that, but it ignores the FACT that it took government intervention to stop the cruel injustices that were inflicted on blacks.

This also is true, without actually having any impact on the section you cited. Government acting in such a way as to damage blacks in the past does not excuse doing so today, nor does government fighting terrorists such as the KKK mean that they are not guilty of teaching dependence.

Mr. Sowell, and other Uncle Toms like him appear to think that if they were alive during the time of Jefferson, Washington, and Madison, that they would be the equals of such slave owners and would have their own slaves working for them for free.

Ah yes. Because those who preach self-reliance, hard work, and self-improvement aren't Keeping It Real. they are Acting White.

:roll: I don't think I could have made a stronger argument in Owls' favor than your own post. Thank you for that, at least.
 
Ah yes. Because those who preach self-reliance, hard work, and self-improvement aren't Keeping It Real. they are Acting White.

Yeah right. Do you know how hard it is to get into Yale? Tell me, what self-reliance, hard work, and self-improvement got George W Bush into Yale?
 
Yeah right. Do you know how hard it is to get into Yale? Tell me, what self-reliance, hard work, and self-improvement got George W Bush into Yale?

:shrug: I wouldn't know. But your strawman is noted and appreciated as an implicit admission of the intellectual shallowness of your position :).
 
:shrug: I wouldn't know. But your strawman is noted and appreciated as an implicit admission of the intellectual shallowness of your position :).

That's right you don't know because it's not there. There was no hard work, self-reliance, or self improvement that got George W Bush into Yale. It was simply because he was from a rich family. Nothing else.
 
That's right you don't know because it's not there. There was no hard work, self-reliance, or self improvement that got George W Bush into Yale. It was simply because he was from a rich family. Nothing else.

Perhaps. Though there are plenty of rich kids that can't. :) At least Bush had better grades than Kerry.

But again, your sad attempt to pivot to Bush is a pretty laughable strawman, only demonstrating all the stronger the intellectual weakness of your position. Care to discuss the hard work and self improvement of Justice Thomas?
 
Perhaps. Though there are plenty of rich kids that can't. :) At least Bush had better grades than Kerry.

But again, your sad attempt to pivot to Bush is a pretty laughable strawman, only demonstrating all the stronger the intellectual weakness of your position. Care to discuss the hard work and self improvement of Justice Thomas?

What's sad is your pathetic attempt to ignore the fact that were are not living in a pure meritocracy. There is more to it than just self reliance and working hard. There are plenty of hard working self reliant black people who have to work 3 jobs to make ends meet. SOME, not all of that is due to past patterns of systemic government discrimination.
 
Te-Nehisi Coates' recent article in The Atlantic has raised a few eyebrows, and showed me just how much I did not know concerning how America and America's government has oppressed the African American community in the past...and even to the modern day.

Coates points out that reparations isn't a matter of "we can't afford it" or "how do we determine who gets paid how much", but a matter of right and wrong. America - and America's government - committed great wrongs against the African American community over many generations, including within my own lifetime.

I was raised to believe that if I did somebody wrong, I should apologize sincerely...and I should do my level best to make it up to those I wronged. I was taught that a refusal to make up for what I have done to others is not just wrong, but dishonorable.

It is for this reason that I agree that we as a nation should pay reparations to the African American community - because it is a matter of right and wrong, a matter of our national honor.

Every welfare dollar that goes to a black American is a reparation dollar. Why do you ask?
 
LOL, the prosperity of this country and all the benefits that come with it is, in GREAT PART, due to slave labor. What the **** kind of question is that?

It is a serious question. I don't ask for platitudes and rhetoric, I'm asking how I have benefited from slave labor, specifically?
 
Think legacy.

You do not know the results of handing out reparations....they could be more harmful than beneficial: socially, financially, culturally,ethically.

It would raise new issues....can you predict them? Resentment is certainly one thing that would surface....what impact would that have on the future of the country and of race relations?
 
No what I'm saying is that I'm wasting my breath, and sometimes you have to leave things to real higher powers to sort things out.

So then you do not support reparations?
 
Well let's see. Thomas Sowell descended from slaves and grew up under segregation and went through the same rebellious years that many youths do. He had to drop out of 9th grade due to financial difficulties and go to work doing menial odd jobs just to feed himself. He finished highschool by going to night classes and after a stint in the military managed to graduate with honors from some prestigious universities. How is his social history limited any more than anybody else's?

His point is that he is NOT the exception but his numbers are legion among black people who have managed to own and run businesses, achieve acclaim in the entertainment and sports industries, who have achieved success as academics, lawyers, doctors, scientists, and in elective office despite being descended from slaves and growing up amidst racial prejudices and segregation. And most who have done so have done it the hard way--they earned what they have and have merited what they have achieved by seizing and utilizing opportunity wherever they found it.

But government policy that encourages black people to see themselves as the oppressed, as the disadvantaged, as victims of slavery and that discourages all the best things that help people of all cultures and ethnic groups and races to succeed has consigned whole sub groups of black people to crushing poverty and believing there is no way out of it for them unless the government does it for them.

And for the government to keep promising it will do it for them so they will keep voting the same people in, and then the government continuing the same failed policies that have created the situation, is criminal. It is those politicians we should look to for any reparations that are due living people.

Yes, yes, yes. Nice fellow. But not the only voice. And it is a mistake to think government encouraging perception us at all real. You have to climb a mountain of real issues before government even gets into the discussion.
 
You do not know the results of handing out reparations....they could be more harmful than beneficial: socially, financially, culturally,ethically.

It would raise new issues....can you predict them? Resentment is certainly one thing that would surface....what impact would that have on the future of the country and of race relations?

Did you read my opening post? I voted no for reparations. I said something else entirely.
 
Did you read my opening post? I voted no for reparations. I said something else entirely.

Well I wondered because you answered the question of purpose with 'legacy'.
 
Well I wondered because you answered the question of purpose with 'legacy'.

Yes, as, because there is a history deserving of discussion on what can be done effectively. It is historically accurate to say whites benefitted, and a lasting benefit, from slavery, and that blacks were held back in a lasting way. Not only was there no plan to help equalize the situation at the point of being freed, we spend about a hundred more years overtly stacking the deck against them after slavery. Reparations won't fix that. But neither will pretending it's all fixed now.
 
Yes, as, because there is a history deserving of discussion on what can be done effectively. It is historically accurate to say whites benefitted, and a lasting benefit, from slavery, and that blacks were held back in a lasting way. Not only was there no plan to help equalize the situation at the point of being freed, we spend about a hundred more years overtly stacking the deck against them after slavery. Reparations won't fix that. But neither will pretending it's all fixed now.


Agreed. But pretending that the govt and many many Americans did not make efforts to equalize the playing field in recent decades helps nothing either. (Not that you did so).
 
Agreed. But pretending that the govt and many many Americans did not make efforts to equalize the playing field in recent decades helps nothing either. (Not that you did so).

Some effort was made during civil rights. But largely inadequate.
 
Some effort was made during civil rights. But largely inadequate.

I'm not aware of any programs or policies being curtailed or ended. Some probably have, but many continue.
 
I'm not aware of any programs or policies being curtailed or ended. Some probably have, but many continue.

Again, largely inadequate, ineffective.
 
Really? What's your timetable?

Not where I think it's done, that's for sure. But really, they haven't been effective. We still see large disparity on nearly every level.
 
Not where I think it's done, that's for sure. But really, they haven't been effective. We still see large disparity on nearly every level.

No progress huh?

I'd like some other opinions on that. I have my own, of course.
 
"Poll: Should we pay reparations to the African American community?"

no
 
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