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Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

Should we pay reparations to the African American community?

  • We should pay reparations to the African American communtiy

    Votes: 15 10.6%

  • We should not pay reparations to the African American community

    Votes: 126 89.4%
  • Total voters
    141
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BrewerBob said:
It affects society. Do you truly not believe that things of great magnitude, like slavery, holocausts, world wars, genocides, depressions, pandemics, and such affect societies for generations thereafter? Or do you believe once something like that is over all of its ramifications are wiped out instantly?
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Huh ?? It " affects society " ???

Well that's nice and vague and it sounds like a opinion. The Jews seem to have done quite well for themselves since WWII, and all the Vietnamese boat people that came over here in the late 70's and 80's have done quite well for themselves too.

Blaming something that happened Generations ago for the choices that people make to today is far more destructive and counterproductive than the fact that Slavery once existed in this Country and others hundreds of years ago.
 
Rowson said:
This question and subject is unavailing, anyway.

As I see it, Americans have already paid billions to African-American communities, through the asymmetric welfare state. The reparations have already been doled out and will continue to be doled out indefinitely by the looks of it.

Reparations aren't only Versailles-esque briefcases with gold and silver coins.
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Ironic isn't it ? That the attempt by certain Political ideologies here in the US to bring about " equality " and " fairness " by convincing the naive that they're the powerless victims of some faceless, formless all powerful entity is actually far more oppressive than " slavery "
 
i can see the logic of paying reparations to former slaves. but there are no African Americans currently living who are former slaves. i'll add that so long as blacks continue to play the victim card, that's all they'll ever be. i blame black leaders, not black people, for this failure; they're the new slave masters, and i hope one day blacks wake up and realize that the likes of sharpton are the polar opposite of martin luther king, who above all else wanted blacks in america to rise to true equality on their own merits and will.
 
Moot said:
If aliens from outer space kidnapped and enslaved 12 million white Americans do you think they'd be better off today? The enslavement of 12 million blacks out of Africa changed the entire demographics of the world...so it would be difficult to say if they're better off.

Do you think the US would be better off today if it never had slavery?
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What is the point of that question? It has already happened. I have no idea what the country would be like if they had never been brought there.
 
A simple answer: NO

Paying reparations wouldn't resolve the problems in Black communities. All that would do is increase consumption. Of course, the un-asked question is how do you measure the cost to every generation of freed Black slaves since Emancipation on top of the unpaid interest on a 100+ year old debt?

Forthy acres and a mule means nothing to me if I can't (afford to) build on the land or use the beast in a cost effective way. Besides, how long before the unpaid property tax places that property back in the hands of those who "provided" it? And what the hell am I suppose to do with the mule anyway? Ride into town like in Biblical days as if I'm royalty or nobility? What exactly am I to haul on the animal's back? All my belongings purchased on credit* (since the income gap between Blacks and White is as wide as $20K/annually.)

Reparations would do little for the average Black person if they know nothing of finance, economics or business. Put another way: If one knows not how to turn liquidity into long-term appreciating assets, providing me 40 acres and a mule means nothing.

All the rest of this garbage about who was more responsible for ushering in slavery in America or who sold whom into slavery is rhetorical, deflective, race baiting, divisive non-sense.

*Household items purchased on credit isn't exclusive to Blacks, but due to Blacks having the highest unemployment rate and the lowest median income among all racial demographics, the likelihood that Blacks will purchase more disposable goods on credit is higher for Blacks than for Whites or non-Hispanic Whites.
 
Mason66 said:
What is the point of that question? It has already happened. I have no idea what the country would be like if they had never been brought there.
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Any more than we know for sure whether or not the decendants of Africans brought to America as slaves would have been worse off today had their forefathers never been sold into slavery in the first place. For all we know, people who could have changed conditions in Africa were removed from the continent and died in captivity.

We can play the "What if" game til the cows come home, but the truth is we'll never know what could have been.
 
As strange as it sounds, people who support reparations do not associate compensation for the injustices of the past with "taxpayers." Rather they look to non-human entities as the responsible parties without considering the fact that government has to get its money from people. If they do make a connection with people, they certainly do not see it as "just white people's taxes" but the taxes of all Americans as well and non-Americans that contribute to funding the government.

As a PS., I think its disingenuous to talk seriously about claiming a right to reparations for slavery without in the same breath holding African countries accountable for selling blacks to white slave traders. I get it that cash might not be practical in every case but even something like land co-ownership that can be leased to safari tour operators or farmers. Nigeria is only one country but is a member of OPEC and could share a small portion of the oil wealth. Africa has diamond mines. I'm not saying I support reparations but as long as we're talking about it, don't forget about African complicity. America fought its bloodiest war to make life better for blacks in America. We contribute tax funds every year to the United Negro College Fund as well as thousands in Faith-Based Initiative grants that although not exclusively, those grants significantly aids high density black population areas of America. What has Africa done?
 
Moot said:
Go back and read TD's post ...and then get back with me.
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Wut?
D'oh!
Still not paying attention I see.
No Moot, what you said was wrong.

Moot said:
According to FBI stats..in 2013:

Whites committed 3,005 total murders
Blacks committed 2,491 total murders
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The numbers do not represent what you say they do.

As you were already told, those numbers represent the victims, not who committed the murders.
3005 represents total number of white victims.
2491 represents the total of black victims.​
 
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Excon said:
Wut?
D'oh!
Still not paying attention I see.
No Moot, what you said was wrong.

​

The numbers do not represent what you say they do.

As you were already told, those numbers represent the victims, not who committed the murders.
3005 represents total number of white victims.
2491 represents the total of black victims.​
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Maybe you're right....I should've added the columns to get the total...

Whites committed a total of 2755 murders.
Blacks committed a total of 2698 murders.

It's close...but whites still committed more murders and it still proves TD wrong.




https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
 
Moot said:
Maybe you're right....I should've added the columns to get the total...

Whites committed a total of 2755 murders.
Blacks committed a total of 2698 murders.

It's close...but whites still committed more murders and it still proves TD wrong.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
Click to expand...


No Moot.
While the chart doesn't make it abundantly clear, you have to subtract Hispanic/Latino to come to the correct numbers.
The inclusion of Hispanics/Latinos into the White category always disproportionately affects the Whites numbers than it does the Black numbers.
Maybe after Obama's admin is replaced they will start providing the specific and accurate numbers by race for the NCVS like they did previously, instead of trying to obfuscate realty like they do now.



Secondly, those numbers are soft.
"NOTE: This table is based on incidents where some information about the offender is known by law enforcement; therefore, when the offender age, sex, and race are all reported as unknown, these data are excluded from the table. "​

Conviction stats are a better indication.



In addition, it was already pointed out that even if the numbers you used had been correct (which they weren't), you still have the discrepancy of proportionality between the races.
Blacks disproportionately murder more than any other race.
 
Damn, this ****ing thread hasn't gotten any less stupid in the last 15 months.

No reparations for anyone.
 
Everyone living in the United States has benefitted from slavery. Just because my ancestors didn't own any slaves does not mean it hasn't impacted my life. Reparations would be payed for more than just slavery. In fact, the systematic oppression that was hugely prevalent up to the 1960s and is still a problem today. One way to look at reparations is like lost wages, lost wages for slavery and lost wages for Jim Crow.

Reparations need not be monetary, in fact cities like Chicago have offered psychological help and educational scholarships. I do not support direct cash transfers, but other types of reparations are considerable.
 
catch22 said:
Everyone living in the United States has benefitted from slavery. Just because my ancestors didn't own any slaves does not mean it hasn't impacted my life. Reparations would be payed for more than just slavery. In fact, the systematic oppression that was hugely prevalent up to the 1960s and is still a problem today. One way to look at reparations is like lost wages, lost wages for slavery and lost wages for Jim Crow.

Reparations need not be monetary, in fact cities like Chicago have offered psychological help and educational scholarships. I do not support direct cash transfers, but other types of reparations are considerable.
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If everyone living benefits, why do we need reparations for something that is/was beneficial? Aren't they already benefiting?
 
catch22 said:
Everyone living in the United States has benefitted from slavery. Just because my ancestors didn't own any slaves does not mean it hasn't impacted my life. Reparations would be payed for more than just slavery. In fact, the systematic oppression that was hugely prevalent up to the 1960s and is still a problem today. One way to look at reparations is like lost wages, lost wages for slavery and lost wages for Jim Crow.

Reparations need not be monetary, in fact cities like Chicago have offered psychological help and educational scholarships. I do not support direct cash transfers, but other types of reparations are considerable.
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Who else should reperatations be paid to?

Should Jews be compensated for being treated badly and being kept out of businesses in the early part of the 20th century?

How about the Irish that came to new York? Should they get paid?

Is it just black people that have suffered in this country?
 
Excon said:
No Moot.
While the chart doesn't make it abundantly clear, you have to subtract Hispanic/Latino to come to the correct numbers.
The inclusion of Hispanics/Latinos into the White category always disproportionately affects the Whites numbers than it does the Black numbers.
Maybe after Obama's admin is replaced they will start providing the specific and accurate numbers by race for the NCVS like they did previously, instead of trying to obfuscate realty like they do now.



Secondly, those numbers are soft.
"NOTE: This table is based on incidents where some information about the offender is known by law enforcement; therefore, when the offender age, sex, and race are all reported as unknown, these data are excluded from the table. "​

Conviction stats are a better indication.



In addition, it was already pointed out that even if the numbers you used had been correct (which they weren't), you still have the discrepancy of proportionality between the races.
Blacks disproportionately murder more than any other race.
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TDs claim was simply that blacks murdered more people than whites. And as you so astutely pointed out it is whites that murder more people than blacks.
 
Mason66 said:
Who else should reperatations be paid to?

Should Jews be compensated for being treated badly and being kept out of businesses in the early part of the 20th century?

How about the Irish that came to new York? Should they get paid?

Is it just black people that have suffered in this country?
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Everyone has suffered going back to the Pilgrims. However, I don't think any group has suffered as much [in America] institutionally as blacks and Native Americans (or should we say the Americans who just so happen to be indigenous?) That's not to say I support reparations beyond honoring them in American heritage. The only thing that pushes me to halfway think reparations might be a good idea is the whole "get over it" mentality and modern racism.
 
Absolutely not!!!
 
catch22 said:
Everyone living in the United States has benefitted from slavery. Just because my ancestors didn't own any slaves does not mean it hasn't impacted my life. Reparations would be payed for more than just slavery. In fact, the systematic oppression that was hugely prevalent up to the 1960s and is still a problem today. One way to look at reparations is like lost wages, lost wages for slavery and lost wages for Jim Crow.

Reparations need not be monetary, in fact cities like Chicago have offered psychological help and educational scholarships. I do not support direct cash transfers, but other types of reparations are considerable.
Click to expand...

Perpetuating this nonsense, convincing or trying to convince people that the choices they make today are not their own and are tied to something that happened generations ago is far more oppressive than the supposed modern day impact of slavery.
 
Mason66 said:
The nation as a whole includes African-Americans.

Should they pay reparations to themselves?
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Every bit as much as any disabled vet should pay for his own disabled-veteran's allowance. Oh, wait - he DOES, through his TAXES. Just like the African Americans would, through their (and our) taxes. But read reply #287 - catch22's got a good idea.
 
Mason66 said:
Who else should reperatations be paid to?

Should Jews be compensated for being treated badly and being kept out of businesses in the early part of the 20th century?

How about the Irish that came to new York? Should they get paid?

Is it just black people that have suffered in this country?
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This has been my reasoning... and the Chinese the built the rail roads as near slaves? Native Americans? Where does it end?
 
We are paying reparations. It's called welfare.
 
Moot said:
And as you so astutely pointed out it is whites that murder more people than blacks.
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No Moot. That is not what was pointed out.
What was pointed out is that your claim is based on your own misreading and failure to account for the totality of the information.

What was also pointed out was that blacks disproportionately commit far more murder than any other race.
 
Excon said:
No Moot. That is not what was pointed out.
What was pointed out is that your claim is based on your own misreading and failure to account for the totality of the information.

What was also pointed out was that blacks disproportionately commit far more murder than any other race.
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That has nothing to do with my response to TD's claim that "male blacks commit more murders than the rest of the nation combined."
 
Bodhisattva said:
This has been my reasoning... and the Chinese the built the rail roads as near slaves? Native Americans? Where does it end?
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The Chinese were paid for their labor, the black slaves were not. The black slaves are still owed their back pay.
 
Moot said:
That has nothing to do with my response to TD's claim that "male blacks commit more murders than the rest of the nation combined."
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iLOL
No Moot.
Your assertion being wrong had everything to do with your response to that.
 
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