• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do you believe in American Exceptionalism?

Do you believe in American Exceptionalism?

  • Total voters
    61
US Conservative said:
Are you saying you are precisely in the middle, with no lean whatsoever? The reason I split up the poll choices like this was for comparison.
Click to expand...

I am very libertarian in my views. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative, minimal government interference.
 
`
The key word in describing the concept of American Exceptionalism is "unique". It does NOT mean we are "better", to wit;

American exceptionalism is the theory that the United States is qualitatively different from other nation states. - source​

I may agree that the US is unique or different but NOT superior, to all other nations. For example, there are certain myths that have been spawned over this last decade, basically from the right, that the US is some kind of moral and/or righteous paragon that has been ordained by God herself, to lead the world out of darkness. ---- I think not. That comes from "Christian Reconstructionism" and "Dominionism. But this is just one facet of a many sided concept.

Yes, the US is unique but hardly a shining example for the world to emulate and it certainly doesn't give us any authority to assume world leadership based on that.
 
Paschendale said:
Alright, let's talk about your criteria. "Historically, militarily, culturally, socially, scientifically, agriculturally, and industrially."

Historically... what does that even mean? Our history is better than other country's history? It's the same history. And, as we said before, we can't rest on our laurels. Militarily doesn't matter, but the most exceptional nation isn't the one that wins wars, it's the one that prevents them. Culturally... again very vague. We're the country whose culture involves mass shootings and denial of science. There's plenty we have to be ashamed of. Socially? Our people aren't ranked happiest in the world. We're also not the healthiest. Scientifically used to be true. It might still be. But it's waning. If keep up this science denial and religious bluster, we'll lose it. It's already begun. Agriculturally? How is this even a criterion? And how exactly are you quantifying it? We produce a lot of food, but we also use up a whole lot more resources than equivalent populations in other countries. Same for industry.

Justify us as superior in any of those criteria. Though you have to first justify why half of them matter as criteria in the first place.
Click to expand...

I was taking the time to write up a thorough reply, and after spending a good 20 minutes chrome crashed on me. I will write this up tomorrow for discussion.
 
Paxaeon said:
`
The key word in describing the concept of American Exceptionalism is "unique". It does NOT mean we are "better", to wit;

American exceptionalism is the theory that the United States is qualitatively different from other nation states. - source​

I may agree that the US is unique or different but NOT superior, to all other nations. For example, there are certain myths that have been spawned over this last decade, basically from the right, that the US is some kind of moral and/or righteous paragon that has been ordained by God herself, to lead the world out of darkness. ---- I think not. That comes from "Christian Reconstructionism" and "Dominionism. But this is just one facet of a many sided concept.

Yes, the US is unique but hardly a shining example for the world to emulate and it certainly doesn't give us any authority to assume world leadership based on that.
Click to expand...

Im shocked you dont think the US is a shining example. Pray tell what nation you think IS a shining example?
 
PirateMk1 said:
I am very libertarian in my views. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative, minimal government interference.
Click to expand...

Im not here to debate your political lean, but if fiscal conservancy, and minimal govt interference are your thing Id suggest you aren't left leaning.
 
US Conservative said:
I'd argue that the USA is exceptional by nearly all measures. Historically, militarily, culturally, socially, scientifically, agriculturally, and industrially.
No other nation comes close across these measures, and the continued flooding to our shores of the worlds immigrants suggests others see it this way as well.
Click to expand...

Does that mean we should be using that exceptionalist mentality to invade and bomb anyone we choose with no concern for the consequences? The "We're Americans so we do whatever the **** we want" mentality is the reason America has so many enemies in the first place. It's not because of envy.

I've been around the world more than once, and there's nothing intrinisic about us that makes us so special that we should disregard the lives and rights of the rest of the human beings we share the world with..

The only thing intrinsically "special" about our country is that we actually have people who think that we are objectively superior to all other nations.
 
Last edited:
It's not American Exceptionalism but Immigrant Exceptionalism.
 
Where we concede that any large group of people, sufficiently motivated, can achieve broad cultural exceptionality, what does a national perspective mean, unless to imply that certain nations have a monopoly on ability?
 
Absolutely. The problem is I have found over the years, few can accept the multitude of definitions of American Exceptionalism. It always seems to run into if you don't believe America ought to be an empire spreading democracy and that if you don't believe that America is the best at everything, you don't believe in American exceptionalism.

I shall see how many people believe either of these two things.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Hell no. What makes us so much "exceptional than other countries"?
Ill let one of the greatest current TV shows to explain the rest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q49NOyJ8fNA
Click to expand...

The Newsroom was so great that Sorkin had to spend the entire second season correcting the multitude of errors from the first to make a decent to good second season, only to have it prematurely croak in the upcoming third season. It's a half-witted adventure with a largely phenomenal cast, largely wasting their time becoming Sorkin's hindsight American politics fan fiction blog with a side serving of "I hate women."

That being said, our main character's point hinged upon rejecting a core principle of American exceptionalism: that for better or for worse, America is different from a large section of the world or western civilization. So, any incredible negative statistic that seems an anomaly for "developed" or "democratized" regimes fits within the narrative of American Exceptionalism.
 
US Conservative said:
A stark contrast to our current POTUS.
Click to expand...


He contradicted himself in this speech as opposed to countless other speeches he has made. Check out the speech he made upon the passage of the ACA. Then watch Boehner's speech the same night. Both Obama and Boehner accepted American Exceptionalism, but came with differing opinions as to whether or not the ACA fulfilled that or not.

Should you request it, I could try to find them both again. I used to have them on stand-by to discuss American exceptionalism in classes.
 
US Conservative said:
Im shocked you dont think the US is a shining example. Pray tell what nation you think IS a shining example?
Click to expand...

The United States does not have to be a shining example of "best" in order for it to be exceptional. Exceptional is, as per the Wiki that you cite heavily (which may have been derived from another text I will recommend later on), based on the notion that the United States or the land prior to unification circa the 1770s was different. Being different is exceptional, whether for better or for worse. Point in fact, if the United States has a higher per capita rate of gun violence than most or, say, all "developed nations" or whatever other standard, that is a demonstration of American Exceptionalism. If Americans continue to believe that their lot in life is based more on individual initiative and hard work than other "developed nations" or "Europe," that too is an affirmation of American Exceptionalism. If individuals in the United States have a statistically higher chance of seeing themselves as members or aligned to their nation-state than the rest of the "developed nations" or "European countries," this is also an affirmation of American Exceptionalism.

In terms of whether or not the United States has a divine mission, or perhaps some derivative Hegelian destiny to propel the world forward in History (with the capital H), that is also American Exceptionalism.

Furthermore, the widespread belief of American Exceptionalism gives credence to American Exceptionalism.

There were two great, shall we say, neoconservative entries on the modern conception of American Exceptionalism. Seymour Martin Lipset, American Exceptionalism: A Double Edged Sword, and Peter H. Shuck and James Q. Wilson, Understanding America: The Anatomy of an Exceptional Nation.


Another great one to read, since it's available everywhere, is John Winthrop's speech, "A Model of Christian Charity." Pay particular attention to the somewhat martyrdom he puts their experiment with. Americans have long held the belief that if they fail to live up to their high standards (standards which change over time), not only will they fail, but the world will fail, and God (or History) will make an example of us falling from grace. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves to do right. Hence, we Americans can't merely act like everyone else...we have to be "better" than the rest. This means when liberals reacted negatively to "enhanced interrogation," they too were relying on American Exceptionalist rhetoric. To them, it may be true that barbaric countries (or perhaps the rest of the world, if they were given the opportunity) use torture, but "we Americans" absolutely cannot, because we are "above that."
 
Last edited:
US Conservative said:
Im not here to debate your political lean, but if fiscal conservancy, and minimal govt interference are your thing Id suggest you aren't left leaning.
Click to expand...

You asked. I was courteous and answered. There a problem with that?
 
That's the problem in this world. Everyone thinks that they are the exception and they try to impose their exceptionalism on others. It's a very dangerous concept.
 
When you are on the top there is always somebody to knock you down. A mediocre country can last forever. A great country will always be taken down. It's human nature.

People throw rocks at things that shine. Enough rocks and it's going to fall down. We can't be the best country in the world forever but that's nothing to feel bad about. Leaders are overthrown all the time. That's nothing unusual. The United States is no exception thus the name exceptionalism?? Are we supposed to be the exception to the rule?
 
Lord of Planar said:
I would like to vote right leaning yes, but there no longer is American exceptionalism. Liberalism has pretty much destroyed everything that makes America great, with politically correct policies.
Click to expand...

This post here is why I sometimes haye discussing politics. What a load of self serving hyperpartisan tripe. Grow the **** up.
 
US Conservative said:
Do you mean that in your own personal self-assessment you sit precisely in the middle?
Click to expand...
I believe that it is impossible for someone to be "precisely in the middle", but I consider myself close enough to be so for practical purposes. I think I slight just a tad to the right, yet not so much so that I identify with the right.


US Conservative said:
I agree that govt has seen to it to stifle progress with over regulation-but thats what govt's do-power takes care of itself, even to the detriment of its people.
Click to expand...
Agreed. It has always been that way for some cultures, though. Not ours. Our stifling is relatively recent. To the level it is now, I mean.
 
Last edited:
But what about us folks who stoop more than they lean and who think that we are a great place to live,but have our faults,and that there are other great places to live complete with their faults as well?
 
I dont like how the poll sticks you into a catagory of left or right leaning beliefs because there are certainly people who don't lean left, or right exclusively. For instance, I have many beliefs on both sides, and that is what I really love about america. Is that you can have differing opinions and you dont have to pigeonhole yourself into a political suit per say. Even as much as people try to force a label on you, you can prove you don't fit that label by simply having your own opinion instead of being a left or right leaning robot puppetting the current values of the label you paint on yourself weather it is democrat, republican, libratarian.... I think we need to throw off these labels and begin thinking for ourselves rather then being a pedestal for someone elses thoughts.
 
To ask, "do you love your nation" or "is your nation special" sounds appropriate. To say, "do you believe your nation exhibits exceptionalism" sounds arrogant. I would rather let others toot our horn, to do it ourselves looks like bragging.
 
NO VOTE !
The option " I am balanced" is missing
neither a liberal nor a conservative be
rather, be a realist...
exceptional ?
in some ways - maybe..
 
grip said:
To ask, "do you love your nation" or "is your nation special" sounds appropriate. To say, "do you believe your nation exhibits exceptionalism" sounds arrogant. I would rather let others toot our horn, to do it ourselves looks like bragging.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is anything wrong with bragging. As long as your bragging does not entail a sense of unwarranted or damaging nationalism. There is a difference between being proud at the things America is really good at, and having a sense of nationalistic exceptionalism where almost everything the US does is better then anyone else, even when it does it worse then other countries.
 
I'm neither right nor left, but I'm Green so many of my sympathies are left-leaning. As regards exceptionalism. We have ten hand digits, ten feet digits, an approximate 98 deegree temp, and we keep the hairy end up. What's exceptional about that? It's more common than horse turds, around the world. Now, the question of Dame Fortune, circumstance, co-incidence, and timing would be more appropriate for our current existential reality. If our destruction of the environment is a criteria, then we are certainly exceptional, exceptionally ignorant!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom