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Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment [W:59]

Is this Child cruelty or just good discipline?


  • Total voters
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Child cruelty or just some good old fashioned discipline?? If you think the former, what 'punishment' do you approve of?


Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment


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I was on the fence with this until I read the article:

"This was done multiple times over a three-day period, sometimes as early as 3 o'clock in the morning," Police Sgt. Todd Garner told 11Alive on Tuesday.

Garner said the boy, who is only 4'2" tall, was also punished in-between the 3-mile hikes.

"In between that time, he was at home having to move rocks and stuff from one side of the back yard to the other and then being taken right back out to the same location and dropped off and made to walk back again," Sgt. Garner added.

The boy's trek would begin on Kings Highway and end at the family's home in the Fairways subdivision.

That was not a simple "teach him to work hard" lesson. That was something more. Something personal. Something mean. The sort of thing that causes problems in a youngster when he grows up. This was not a loving lesson doled out by a loving father to teach his son responsibility. Even though he didn't beat him up, it's a cruel act. To wake up a teen in the middle of the night & force him to tote heavy stones down the dark road and back, and keep doing it off and on for days? Cruelty.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Then quite a few of my generation were abused as children. Dr Spock really did screw this nation over for generations to come. :mrgreen:

Yes, we were.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I haven't yet seen any indication the child was physically harmed by this. In fact, it sounds like what we used to do daily for fun on our own as kids (we used to build the most amazing forts).

It is a misconception that child cruelty must involve physical harm. Mental harm is cruelty, as well. Going without sleep to work in a stone yard in the middle of the night...sorry, but that's cruelty. That's not teaching a lesson.

The boy is his son. Not his property. Not his slave laborer. Some parents, seems to me, seem to think they OWN their children. They do not.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

In my county the police would be dropping the charges with in day, that is if they were that stupid enough to arrest the man in the first place. If it EVER got to trial, the jury would toss it so fast it would make the stupid prosecutors head spin. We have dumb prosecutors but I doubt they are this dumb. This all presumes the judge doesn't toss it themselves.

Your right I do have an emotional attachment. This is a bull**** charge though and through. This family is now being tortured by CPS and the judicial system. That's cruel and unusual punishment, for a nonexistent crime.



Another example of how local and State agencies have too much power..Even if this poor guy beats the charges, CPS will remain part of his life for a long time...
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I haven't yet seen any indication the child was physically harmed by this. In fact, it sounds like what we used to do daily for fun on our own as kids (we used to build the most amazing forts).



Exactly, the father didn't beat the kid with the rock, just made him carry it....
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Personally, I don't believe the punishment is productive, but that's just me. Secondly, I see it's now called "child cruelty" - what happened to child abuse? Basically, from where I come from, it impossible to raise a respectful, responsible, decent child without being "cruel" to them in many ways. But that's not abuse. I agree with Gipper, judges who make those convicted of crimes stand on corners with signs announcing their crimes and subjecting them to ridicule from complete strangers are far more "cruel" than this man. And considering the state of "fatherless" children in black communities in America, I'd be on the street corner giving this caring father a medal for trying to teach his son responsibility.

I have a feeling this charge will be dropped by the district attorney involved - there is no chance of a conviction and it just makes them look foolish to pursue it.



That depends. If it goes to Family Court with CPS pulling the strings, he is in deep **** and could lose custody of the kid...
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

But it is up to law enforcement and really others to at least halt and question punishments that have the potential for harming children, putting them in danger, like this one.

It's up to them to investigate.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

The evidence doesn't fall on your side. Abuse or cruelty against children does not require that the child actually have suffered physical consequences from it, only that there is a good possibility that they could had. The little girl who was forced to run for 3 hours straight around her house was probably fine too up til that last little bit of time. Would her "punishment" have been okay so long as her stepmother/grandmother had given her water every hour instead of not having done so?

All the evidence falls on my side....the kid is fine.

So you are speculating that it was cruel and abusive.

I am speculating that it's not. And the evidence bears my speculation out.

The investigation hopefully will examine the child and the circumstances.

Kids suffer physical consequences from being paddles on the butt too. That's the intent...consequences.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Actually, a lot of states/municipalities have bike helmet laws, particularly for those under 18/16. Not exactly sure on the punishment for your child not wearing a helmet, but the laws still exist in many states/areas.

Bicycle Helmet Laws

You listed one of the dangers of this (although, that one is a pretty obscure danger in itself, especially to someone who actually is 16). But there are plenty of basic dangers no matter where he is walking, including heat exhaustion, getting hit by a car (it was a road, and that is always a potential danger, and carrying a rock with him would cause his reaction time to be lower), and any number of muscle injuries from carrying a 23lb object, in his hands, 3 miles.

And no, I never carried all my books, by hand, around school, particularly not for over an hour at a time. In fact, ...

"The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that a child’s backpack weigh no more than 10 to 20 percent of a child’s weight."

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/weighing-school-backpacks/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

And this is just a carry weight for a backpack, not carrying by hand. Also, shorter children should carry less weight. So that 23lb weight is about 16% of the kid's weight. Within range, but still over the 10% and again, not being carried on his back and he is shorter (significantly) than most "kids" at that weight. If he was close to his recommended weight, he would have been carrying closer to 27% of his body weight.

And they are starting to discover that helmets are not very effective. THey are more 'feel good' than actually protective. They have found that the brain bounces around inside the skull just as much with helmets. They may offer some protection but not nearly what people had thought previously.

It's been a hot-button topic in the horse industry lately. Football too.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

That depends. If it goes to Family Court with CPS pulling the strings, he is in deep **** and could lose custody of the kid...

Maybe so - but maybe the negative publicity will cause them to only monitor but not interfere and then quietly let it drop.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

At first I thought this father will get out of these bogus charges. But my wife read me a story that made me realize that America is over the edge on stupid. I parent picked up their kid from school who got in trouble and was sent home for the day. The kid wouldn't tell the parent what was going on, so the parent stopped the car and said the kid could walk home.

The parent was arrested for a similar thing. It went to court and the judge actually said that it WAS endangerment because kids walking down a street is dangerous in current times because there are pedophiles out there.

For real.

We are going to have an 'entitled' generation far worse than we could ever imagine.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

It's up to them to investigate.

And law enforcement investigated and decided that the punishment fit the charge of child cruelty.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

And law enforcement investigated and decided that the punishment fit the charge of child cruelty.

Ah, LE decided… authority over the citizens, the same sort of authority that backed slavery and putting japanese americans in camps and so many other 'good' decisions, right? LOL…
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Ah, LE decided… authority over the citizens, the same sort of authority that backed slavery and putting japanese americans in camps and so many other 'good' decisions, right? LOL…

It's called doing their job. Keeping children safe is part of that, and at times it means keeping them safe from their own parents. Sometimes just pointing out that what a parent is doing is illegal/harmful is enough. Other times it requires charges but keeping kids with their parents. And yet other times, kids need to be removed to keep them safe. This is a time where either of the first would be appropriate, but we don't know what happened when the police did bring this kid home to his father.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

It's called doing their job. Keeping children safe is part of that,

Because studies have shown, removing kids from parents that actually discipline them and putting the state in charge of them, helps turn them into good little dependents of the state, and we want more sheep that rely on government. :roll:

I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks making a kid move rocks or dig and fill ditches or (heaven forbid) walk is horrible and cruel, is part of the problem in this society. We aren't talking about beating the crap out of kids, just putting a level of discipline in them that (it certainly seems) has been missing for decades, and has helped lead to new generations of 'entitlement' and 'unaccountable' douchbags.

The world is a cruel and unfair place and it doesn't give a crap about any one individual, and when people don't understand that, they fail. And yes, we have loads of young people coming up who are going to fail miserably because of the years of this silly 'everyone deserves a trophy' and 'you sit in time out' nonsense.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Because studies have shown, removing kids from parents that actually discipline them and putting the state in charge of them, helps turn them into good little dependents of the state, and we want more sheep that rely on government. :roll:

I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks making a kid move rocks or dig and fill ditches or (heaven forbid) walk is horrible and cruel, is part of the problem in this society. We aren't talking about beating the crap out of kids, just putting a level of discipline in them that (it certainly seems) has been missing for decades, and has helped lead to new generations of 'entitlement' and 'unaccountable' douchbags.

The world is a cruel and unfair place and it doesn't give a crap about any one individual, and when people don't understand that, they fail. And yes, we have loads of young people coming up who are going to fail miserably because of the years of this silly 'everyone deserves a trophy' and 'you sit in time out' nonsense.

This wasn't simply discipline. It was viewed as excessive, and therefore cruel, hence the charge. We have a constitutional protection against cruel and unusual punishments. Parents have automatic authority over their children because children aren't legally able to fend for themselves.

The father will either go in front of a judge or plea out. Doubt he will get much more than parenting classes, possibly a fine and/or probation. Won't likely come close to losing his kid due to this.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I haven't yet seen any indication the child was physically harmed by this. In fact, it sounds like what we used to do daily for fun on our own as kids (we used to build the most amazing forts).
Sure it's fun when you're building something, but not if you have to move the stones and then move them right back. However, it is supposed to be punishment. And the kid got a good workout too.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

It was viewed as excessive,

And they were wrong, and everyone that thinks it was is wrong, and as I said, part of the problem.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Maybe so - but maybe the negative publicity will cause them to only monitor but not interfere and then quietly let it drop.



Hopefully. but once CPS gets involved, it becomes a very tricky situation...
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

This wasn't simply discipline. It was viewed as excessive, and therefore cruel, hence the charge. We have a constitutional protection against cruel and unusual punishments. Parents have automatic authority over their children because children aren't legally able to fend for themselves.

The father will either go in front of a judge or plea out. Doubt he will get much more than parenting classes, possibly a fine and/or probation. Won't likely come close to losing his kid due to this.



You can't be sure of that..Children have been taken away from loving homes for a lot less...
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

And they were wrong, and everyone that thinks it was is wrong, and as I said, part of the problem.

In your opinion, they were wrong. In my opinion, they weren't.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

You can't be sure of that..Children have been taken away from loving homes for a lot less...

They have been. But I didn't say it couldn't happen, only that it won't likely happen. And if it does happen with this case (and we find out about it), then I will say it was wrong to do that and his, the father's punishment was too harsh.

But it isn't very likely to happen. Not when talking about a 16 year old and that it was a simple issue of discipline being too harsh.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

In your opinion, they were wrong. In my opinion, they weren't.

Well, welcome to the world of being wrong. Once government put's it's foot in the door, it destroy's families. I've seen it far too often.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Well, welcome to the world of being wrong. Once government put's it's foot in the door, it destroy's families. I've seen it far too often.

And I've seen many people overreact to government "action" only because they don't like the government interfering in anything, even if it might just help someone.
 
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Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

And I've seen many people overreact to government "action" only because they do like the government interfering in anything, even if it might just help someone.

But 'if we can save one child', it pays to ensure the government isn't involved. Isn't that the correct buzz words to use?
 
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