Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment [W:59]

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

mtm1963 said:

firm parenting at an early age helps when the children are older.

the means this father is using in trying to correct his son's behavior is bad given the age of his son. i think the kid is going to resent it as an adult and just think what he might do as a father himself.

Click to expand...

Yes, firm parenting at an early age does help. But there is no good cure for puberty. It's a whole 'nother ball game when 14 comes along. And at the very least, the kid won't have to worry about being out of shape.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

roguenuke said:

He was not healthy for his size at all. Being overweight by 60lbs is not healthy, at all.

More than an hour without water, while walking carrying a 23lb weight in hot weather means needing more water. Plus he was doing extra exercise before and/or after.

Click to expand...

Again, if we're speculating, the evidence falls on my side. The kid is fine.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

roguenuke said:

23lbs is a load. He was not a normal 16 year old boy. Just because he wasn't an invalid doesn't mean that it is healthy for him to be doing that much exercise/work at a time, without any known source of water.

What women? Those walking around that you claim do it during their lunch break. I highly doubt you can make 3 miles in heels on an hour lunch break. Not unless you are in some amazing shape to begin with.

Click to expand...

Again you speak of what you do not know. It's clear and common here at Green Lake in Seattle...so common it's a local joke.

and

"Again, if we're speculating, the evidence falls on my side. The kid is fine."

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

As I keep reading this thread, I'm shocked by the nervous nellies here. The kid was walking along a busy street, so we have to worry that he might be hit by a car! It was dark out, so if he's not covered head to toe in reflective tape is in danger! If he goes an hour without water, he's going to drop dead of dehydration! I think mainstream modern parenting seems to think danger lurks around every corner for our kids. Nothing that this kid was subjected to would totally out of place with the things me and my friends did willingly as kids just 20 to 30 years ago.

When I was a teen I rode my bike (with no helmet or knee pads even!) a mile or so down the shoulder of a busy street with a 45 mile an hour speed limit because it was the only way to hang out with my friends who lived in town. I sometimes rode my bike home in the dark down that same street. In my subdivision, all the kids got together and built a baseball field in an empty lot with materials we scavenged from new home construction sites. We hauled 8x4 sheets of plywood, loads of 12 foot long 2x4s, packs of shingles (we shingled the roof of the dugout!), boxes of nails, wheel barrows of gravel, and tools across the subdivision in the summer heat. We worked on it for hours at a time without anything to drink. I was a scrawny 13 year old and I held up just fine. My youngest brother was about 8 and a little on the pudgy side, but he did his best to keep up with us and managed to avoid dropping dead of exhaustion.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

notquiteright said:

Not speculating abit, you dodged answering the question about asking a friend to borrow their 4'2" child and force them to hug carry a landscape block for 3 miles.

Click to expand...

It's not up to me to tell someone else how to punish their kid. What a ridiculous question and even moreso that you keep demanding an answer.

Lursa said:

Again, if we're speculating, the evidence falls on my side. The kid is fine.

Click to expand...

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

shavingcollywob said:

What's racist about acknowledging a serious problem affecting the black community?

Click to expand...

It's a serious problem affecting every community, from trailer parks full of white trash to rich whites that have no time for their kids. Blacks are no more neglectful of their children than anyone else. That's why it's racist.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

mtm1963 said:

don't you think the father should be mentoring his son instead of this kind of physical punishment?

Click to expand...

You say "go Vols"...assuming you are a fan of Tennessee academic clubs...right? Certainly NOT sports teams...right? Did you ever play sports?

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Lursa said:

Again, if we're speculating, the evidence falls on my side. The kid is fine.

Click to expand...

The evidence doesn't fall on your side. Abuse or cruelty against children does not require that the child actually have suffered physical consequences from it, only that there is a good possibility that they could had. The little girl who was forced to run for 3 hours straight around her house was probably fine too up til that last little bit of time. Would her "punishment" have been okay so long as her stepmother/grandmother had given her water every hour instead of not having done so?

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Lursa said:

It's not up to me to tell someone else how to punish their kid. What a ridiculous question and even moreso that you keep demanding an answer.

Click to expand...

But it is up to law enforcement and really others to at least halt and question punishments that have the potential for harming children, putting them in danger, like this one.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

roguenuke said:

He was not healthy for his size at all. Being overweight by 60lbs is not healthy, at all.

More than an hour without water, while walking carrying a 23lb weight in hot weather means needing more water. Plus he was doing extra exercise before and/or after.

Click to expand...

And yet...the kid is fine. I didnt even see anywhere in the article that he was complaining much.

Go Navy! Man...remember Boot Camp (is that what the Navy calls it? In the AF it is 'Basic Training")? And how about that Seal training.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

roguenuke said:

But it is up to law enforcement and really others to at least halt and question punishments that have the potential for harming children, putting them in danger, like this one.

Click to expand...

I agree LE should have asked questions. Even consulted CPS. But dont you think it is at least LITTLE funny that people are calling this behavior 'abusive' when FACTUALLY, 16 year old kids in HS endure this and SO MUCH more during two a days and sports prep classes.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

VanceMack said:

I agree LE should have asked questions. Even consulted CPS. But dont you think it is at least LITTLE funny that people are calling this behavior 'abusive' when FACTUALLY, 16 year old kids in HS endure this and SO MUCH more during two a days and sports prep classes.

Click to expand...

They don't endure this and more though, not everything this kid did, not most kids, particularly not ones that are already overweight. Schools would get sued for making students do this in a program that did not work up to such things. It puts the kid in danger.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Lursa said:

Again you speak of what you do not know. It's clear and common here at Green Lake in Seattle...so common it's a local joke.

and

"Again, if we're speculating, the evidence falls on my side. The kid is fine."

Click to expand...

Prove it. Prove that this is a common occurrence, not just you saying that it happens. Because I have sites that say over and over again that the average walking speed for fitness walkers (this is someone who is just walking for fitness, not carrying extra weight), female, is around 3 miles. That is fast walking. And doing something like that in heals, as you claim, would be extremely difficult.

The Average Walking Speed for Fitness Walking

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

roguenuke said:

They don't endure this and more though, not everything this kid did, not most kids, particularly not ones that are already overweight. Schools would get sued for making students do this in a program that did not work up to such things. It puts the kid in danger.

Click to expand...

Have you ever BEEN to a football practice? High school kids including the heavy horses are out there running their ass off, doing drills, pushing sleds all in the heat of the day and manage to do just fine. This kid wasnt being worked over...he was being made to walk 3 miles carrying a rock. His dad was employing the exact same strategies they employ in sports programs and I am assuming you endured during your boot camp. He did it several times...with no adverse health impacts.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

VanceMack said:

And yet...the kid is fine. I didnt even see anywhere in the article that he was complaining much.

Go Navy! Man...remember Boot Camp (is that what the Navy calls it? In the AF it is 'Basic Training")? And how about that Seal training.

Click to expand...

They preselected people for SEAL training and they even had a pre-SEAL training that would get the average sailor up to the fitness level required to begin SEAL training.

And yes, I remember boot camp. We worked our way up to being able to run in formation or even to get cycled (punished with physical exercise) as a division. And this was done with at least two RDCs present, plus we had to have a canteen with water always in it, and we took at least water breaks. The only time we carried anything when we were doing physical activity during bootcamp was during Battle Stations (when it was spread out across Great Lakes), and we had to pass off a seabag that had a bathing suit in it for everyone (20 sailors, wasn't that heavy) (generally women took it first half, til the pool, then the guys switched off carrying it after the pool, abandon ship drill). But Battle Stations was done at the end of boot camp, after we had been training for at least 7 weeks and even after our final PRT, which meant everyone who did it had to be in good shape to do it. And even during that late night "fun" we all had canteens on us. Hydration was always stressed during boot camp.

Child cruelty is not assessed according to how the child/teen fared from what was done (or attempted) but the likelihood of injury/illness from the punishment.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

VanceMack said:

Have you ever BEEN to a football practice? High school kids including the heavy horses are out there running their ass off, doing drills, pushing sleds all in the heat of the day and manage to do just fine. This kid wasnt being worked over...he was being made to walk 3 miles carrying a rock. His dad was employing the exact same strategies they employ in sports programs and I am assuming you endured during your boot camp. He did it several times...with no adverse health impacts.

Click to expand...

As I've said, we worked our way up to being able to do those things, and we had plenty of water always available to us. I'm willing to bet the same thing goes for sports practices. Even swimming practice, we were reminded constantly to get water. Plus, the size of the kid (in both directions) does matter. Most sports teams and even the military likely wouldn't allow the kid to play due to either his weight, his height, or both.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

roguenuke said:

Prove it. Prove that this is a common occurrence, not just you saying that it happens. Because I have sites that say over and over again that the average walking speed for fitness walkers (this is someone who is just walking for fitness, not carrying extra weight), female, is around 3 miles. That is fast walking. And doing something like that in heals, as you claim, would be extremely difficult.

The Average Walking Speed for Fitness Walking

Click to expand...

3 miles...and that's what the loop around Green Lake is. So.....what's the disagreement? That women walking and talking and wearing heels cant do 3 miles in an hr?

LOL I havent seen any studies....just seen women doing it all the time on lunch HOURS. If it was much more than than, there'd be alot of women out of work, lol.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

roguenuke said:

Just because nothing did happen to the kid, doesn't mean he wasn't in danger from things happening due to that punishment. That logic is completely horrible.

We really don't know the condition of the kid, but it was obviously enough for the police to intervene.

Click to expand...

We may both be speculating but mine is borne out by the actual results.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

The speculation in this thread has gone beyond ridiculous. Someone went so far as to suggest maybe the kid was short because he had been deprived food. :doh

How do people feel about the punishments where parents make their kids stand out in public with signs saying what they did and (usually) apologizing?

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Lursa said:

3 miles...and that's what the loop around Green Lake is. So.....what's the disagreement? That women walking and talking and wearing heels cant do 3 miles in an hr?

LOL I havent seen any studies....just seen women doing it all the time on lunch HOURS. If it was much more than than, there'd be alot of women out of work, lol.

Click to expand...

The basic details that go into that. That estimate is taken from those who are walking fast, in regular fitness gear, not walking at a leisurely pace in high heels while gabbing with their friends. There is a difference between these things. So, no, I don't think most women "walking and talking and wearing heels" can do 3 miles in an hour.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Lursa said:

We may both be speculating but mine is borne out by the actual results.

Click to expand...

"Results" in the cases of child cruelty are not what matters. The potential is. It was stopped, by law enforcement, before we could determine what the actual results might have been. A person could chain their kid to a wall or lock them in a cage and it cause no actual physical harm to them, especially if that action/punishment was discovered in a relatively short amount of time (within a day or a few hours even), yet that would still be seen as either child abuse or child cruelty.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

roguenuke said:

"Results" in the cases of child cruelty are not what matters. The potential is. It was stopped, by law enforcement, before we could determine what the actual results might have been. A person could chain their kid to a wall or lock them in a cage and it cause no actual physical harm to them, especially if that action/punishment was discovered in a relatively short amount of time (within a day or a few hours even), yet that would still be seen as either child abuse or child cruelty.

Click to expand...

Did you never carry your books in school without a backpack? Yea it sucks, but not dangerous. I googled the basic route the kid took and its not a hard walk at all. There isn't any danger here for the kid. Should we arrest every parent who lets their kid ride a bike without a helmet? Or shoots hoops in the street of a cul-de-sac? These could be considered dangerous situations.

If you ask me, the most dangerous thing about this whole story is the fact that the boy got in a car with a complete stranger, just to get out of his punishment.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

VanceMack said:

Have you ever BEEN to a football practice? High school kids including the heavy horses are out there running their ass off, doing drills, pushing sleds all in the heat of the day and manage to do just fine. This kid wasnt being worked over...he was being made to walk 3 miles carrying a rock. His dad was employing the exact same strategies they employ in sports programs and I am assuming you endured during your boot camp. He did it several times...with no adverse health impacts.

Click to expand...

High school kids? Hell my oldest played Pop Warner football when he was in 2nd grade and they were pushing the sleds in the middle of August at training camp, and they all survived with no issue. And at that age they're all smaller than the kid in this story.

I also think a lot of people who are having hysterics about this kid's punishment must not have young ones who play hockey. You should see what they go through for training when they're 5. Mine all did - and they all survived (and thrived too).

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Chaddelamancha said:

Did you never carry your books in school without a backpack? Yea it sucks, but not dangerous. I googled the basic route the kid took and its not a hard walk at all. There isn't any danger here for the kid. Should we arrest every parent who lets their kid ride a bike without a helmet? Or shoots hoops in the street of a cul-de-sac? These could be considered dangerous situations.

If you ask me, the most dangerous thing about this whole story is the fact that the boy got in a car with a complete stranger, just to get out of his punishment.

Click to expand...

Actually, a lot of states/municipalities have bike helmet laws, particularly for those under 18/16. Not exactly sure on the punishment for your child not wearing a helmet, but the laws still exist in many states/areas.

Bicycle Helmet Laws

You listed one of the dangers of this (although, that one is a pretty obscure danger in itself, especially to someone who actually is 16). But there are plenty of basic dangers no matter where he is walking, including heat exhaustion, getting hit by a car (it was a road, and that is always a potential danger, and carrying a rock with him would cause his reaction time to be lower), and any number of muscle injuries from carrying a 23lb object, in his hands, 3 miles.

And no, I never carried all my books, by hand, around school, particularly not for over an hour at a time. In fact, ...

"The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that a child’s backpack weigh no more than 10 to 20 percent of a child’s weight."

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/weighing-school-backpacks/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

And this is just a carry weight for a backpack, not carrying by hand. Also, shorter children should carry less weight. So that 23lb weight is about 16% of the kid's weight. Within range, but still over the 10% and again, not being carried on his back and he is shorter (significantly) than most "kids" at that weight. If he was close to his recommended weight, he would have been carrying closer to 27% of his body weight.

Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

roguenuke said:

They preselected people for SEAL training and they even had a pre-SEAL training that would get the average sailor up to the fitness level required to begin SEAL training.

And yes, I remember boot camp. We worked our way up to being able to run in formation or even to get cycled (punished with physical exercise) as a division. And this was done with at least two RDCs present, plus we had to have a canteen with water always in it, and we took at least water breaks. The only time we carried anything when we were doing physical activity during bootcamp was during Battle Stations (when it was spread out across Great Lakes), and we had to pass off a seabag that had a bathing suit in it for everyone (20 sailors, wasn't that heavy) (generally women took it first half, til the pool, then the guys switched off carrying it after the pool, abandon ship drill). But Battle Stations was done at the end of boot camp, after we had been training for at least 7 weeks and even after our final PRT, which meant everyone who did it had to be in good shape to do it. And even during that late night "fun" we all had canteens on us. Hydration was always stressed during boot camp.

Child cruelty is not assessed according to how the child/teen fared from what was done (or attempted) but the likelihood of injury/illness from the punishment.

Click to expand...

Thereare obvious questions as to whether or not a 16 year old walking 3 whole miles carrying 23 pounds is 'cruelty' or 'abusive'.