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Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment [W:59]

Is this Child cruelty or just good discipline?


  • Total voters
    48
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

It was excessive. Given what he was being punished for (the father stated it) and the actual punishment, that was excessive punishment. That punishment would not be given to most military personnel now for the given offense (unless they were possibly in prison already).

Was it so excessive that it would be called abusive? Was so excessive that the police and CPS be involved? I don't think it was remotely excessive. You believe otherwise. So this is a judgment call, which doubt should go to the parents.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

It was excessive. Given what he was being punished for (the father stated it) and the actual punishment, that was excessive punishment. That punishment would not be given to most military personnel now for the given offense (unless they were possibly in prison already).

It was excessive in your opinion. The law isn't based on opinions. Within the letter of the law, this is clearly not a crime.
 
Hell I think my book bag was that heavy..

So long as the child was allowed to carry it in an ergonomically sound way I don't see the need for the police to be involved as there would be little risk of injury.

It's an idiotic method of punishment though. If I were a teen something like that would have only made me pissed off and more determined to have my way.

The bolded is really sort of the point. With a teenage male, the test of wills becomes pretty pronounced, and the father figure and the son figuratively battle it out. I suspect that this is nature's way of saying that you're getting prepared for true autonomy, and I don't see it as a bad thing. I am a little conflicted about the method of punishment, not that it was too much, but may have served to do nothing constructive, but it's certainly not worthy of legal trouble on the part of the father.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Could you please answer one simple question for us:
What harm was done to the kid?

Child abuse is when a child is caused to come to harm, so could you please point out what harm was done.

He isn't being charged with "child abuse". He is being charged with child cruelty.

Georgia Code - Crimes and Offenses - Title 16, Section 16-5-70 - Georgia Attorney Resources - Georgia Laws

Was the kid given adequate food and/or water for the punishment? He was carrying a weight consistently that was likely (if he was of a healthy weight given his size) over 1/4 of his body weight. And he was made to carry it more than once each day (from what I gathered in that news report), sometimes starting rather early in the morning. (Was he given safety gear by his father, such as at least reflectors if he was walking in the dark?)

Some are saying that we don't have both sides here, but we actually have some information from both sides here. It could easily be worse given more information about the punishment than the information we have.

He was caught on a traffic stop camera and a pizza guy saw him and called about it (makes you wonder how often he was carrying that stone given the information we have about this). Plus, how did the father react when the police came by? I'd say most cops would likely give a warning for such a situation, dependent upon the attitude of the parents involved.

And we need to stop punishments that may appear excessive when we see them or children end up dead before anyone even realizes they were being punished excessively.

9-year-old forced to run for 3 hours as punishment, dies

If the given information was correct, and this 16 year old really was only 4'3" tall, then the 16 year old would be about the same height at least (quite possibly around the same average weight) as an 8 or 9 year old.
 
The bolded is really sort of the point. With a teenage male, the test of wills becomes pretty pronounced, and the father figure and the son figuratively battle it out. I suspect that this is nature's way of saying that you're getting prepared for true autonomy, and I don't see it as a bad thing. I am a little conflicted about the method of punishment, not that it was too much, but may have served to do nothing constructive, but it's certainly not worthy of legal trouble on the part of the father.

It's two different issues. The efficacy of the punishment is dependent in on the personalities involved of course, but from a personal and anecdotal standpoint. A punishment like this only works if the boy doesn't have the urge to stand up for himself. This is often the case for more physical punishments. It cows those who are emotionally weak (not speaking of more extreme things like caining of course). If the kid has any level of ODD or any sense of moxie, this will backfire and make the kid more defiant as he will just think his dad is an asshole. (I have a soft spot for more strong willed children in the wrong environment to properly nurture them :))

As far as the punishment. My concerns are among the lines of letting the child get a healthy amount of sleep, not doing it when it is too hot or cold and other conditions that can cause injury. Personally I think a parent use caution unless they know what conditions are unsafe as well
 
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Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Yes, it does. It's called "making the punishment fit the crime".

So I guess you would make a child that doesn't use an "indoor voice" go around screaming their head off as punishment.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Was it so excessive that it would be called abusive? Was so excessive that the police and CPS be involved? I don't think it was remotely excessive. You believe otherwise. So this is a judgment call, which doubt should go to the parents.

Not letting your child sleep is, in fact, abusive.



However.


I won't make a judgement on this without knowing some history. Maybe this is a problem child. Got enough energy to get in trouble...the he's got enough energy to do PTs at 3am. Can't make that call from the armchair, though.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Don't sound racist at all, you need the information?

The presumption of the statement is that blacks, as a whole, neglect their children. It is a racist statement.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

It was excessive in your opinion. The law isn't based on opinions. Within the letter of the law, this is clearly not a crime.

Actually, large portions of the law are based on "opinions". Many things are relative, including the words "cruel", "excessive", and even "too much". The Georgia code on "child cruelty" says this:

"(b) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree when such person maliciously causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain. "

Georgia Code - Crimes and Offenses - Title 16, Section 16-5-70 - Georgia Attorney Resources - Georgia Laws

Both cruel and excessive are subjective. It would certainly be excessive to force most children below the age of ten to run 5 or 10 miles as punishment, even just a mile or two. However, some teenaged athletes train by running those amounts. It would be cruel to sentence a person to 5 years in jail for stealing a candy bar (shoplifting) with a completely clean record and nothing else but he/she simply took the candy bar out of the store. It would not be cruel to apply that sentence to someone who robbed a store at gun point and/or attacked someone (assault).
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

So I guess you would make a child that doesn't use an "indoor voice" go around screaming their head off as punishment.

Not a half bad idea, actually.


I got in trouble for drawing in class. This was early 90's, Simpsons and teenage mutant ninja turtles were big, and that's what I was drawing. My 5th grade teacher made me spend several entire days drawing Simpsons and tmnt pictures. Cured me real quick.
 
Not letting your child sleep is, in fact, abusive.



However.


I won't make a judgement on this without knowing some history. Maybe this is a problem child. Got enough energy to get in trouble...the he's got enough energy to do PTs at 3am. Can't make that call from the armchair, though.

Showing a kid who's boss tends to backfire more often than not. Punishments like this are a good way to make a defiant child's behavior worse. Typically it is good parenting to find punishments that induce unpleasant feelings but avoid making a child angry. Boredom and misery for example are great but under appreciated tools.

I made a teenager sit still for two days over a weekend once (excepting necessities) and the results were amazing.
 
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Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I erred on the charges, thinking they were abuse charges. It doesn't really change my opinion on whether this child cruelty or not. I believe it was within the parents right. Honestly it would be more cruel of the kids parents to allow him to continue to not take care of his responsibilities and not hold him accountable.

Actually, large portions of the law are based on "opinions". Many things are relative, including the words "cruel", "excessive", and even "too much". The Georgia code on "child cruelty" says this:

"(b) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the first degree when such person maliciously causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain. "

Georgia Code - Crimes and Offenses - Title 16, Section 16-5-70 - Georgia Attorney Resources - Georgia Laws

Both cruel and excessive are subjective. It would certainly be excessive to force most children below the age of ten to run 5 or 10 miles as punishment, even just a mile or two. However, some teenaged athletes train by running those amounts. It would be cruel to sentence a person to 5 years in jail for stealing a candy bar (shoplifting) with a completely clean record and nothing else but he/she simply took the candy bar out of the store. It would not be cruel to apply that sentence to someone who robbed a store at gun point and/or attacked someone (assault).
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Was it so excessive that it would be called abusive? Was so excessive that the police and CPS be involved? I don't think it was remotely excessive. You believe otherwise. So this is a judgment call, which doubt should go to the parents.

I would call it cruelty, which is what he is being charged with. I would say that they should have given him a warning. But for all we know, they could have did that first, and the guy said that he felt there was nothing wrong with the punishment and do it again, and that's why they decided to charge him.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I erred on the charges, thinking they were abuse charges. It doesn't really change my opinion on whether this child cruelty or not. I believe it was within the parents right. Honestly it would be more cruel of the kids parents to allow him to continue to not take care of his responsibilities and not hold him accountable.

There are less excessive/cruel punishments that would more likely work and not put him in danger of potential health issues such as heat exhaustion/stroke, muscle strains/sprains, or many other things that are potentials depending on more information about the actual conditions.
 
When I read the title of the thread,I thought, in today's weak, pc world of parenting, that the father might have (gasp, shock, horror) said a harsh word to his son. In some circles that could constitute abuse!

The kid may not thank his father today, but if the father is strong, stands his ground and continues to be a strong, involved parent, the kid will thank him when he grows up. If anyone thinks that some physical exercise is child abuse then they have no concept of what the word means.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

There are less excessive/cruel punishments that would more likely work and not put him in danger of potential health issues such as heat exhaustion/stroke, muscle strains/sprains, or many other things that are potentials depending on more information about the actual conditions.

There is a lot of information left out of the article, so I cant be sure the kid was in any danger or not. His father being a military man, I would assume he knows health and conditioning. But all we can do is assume with the information given.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

There is a lot of information left out of the article, so I cant be sure the kid was in any danger or not. His father being a military man, I would assume he knows health and conditioning. But all we can do is assume with the information given.

You'd be surprised. I am going off the information we have, and from it, I see it as excessive. I might change my mind if we find out the kid was either larger than reported (they are reporting him to be only 4' 2" tall, that is small for a 16 year old, very), or actually a star athlete of some kind. For an average kid though, especially one that size, this is excessive punishment.

And I don't agree with any pointless tasks. In themselves, they are cruel to me because they don't actually serve a real purpose and they aren't likely to fix the major problems that require punishment. They don't really teach anything and they are much more likely to make a child rebel. If you give a teen/child an actual meaningful task as punishment, the punishment is more likely to sink in.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

based on the article I voted fine and acceptable but the poll isnt good option wise.

It might not be fine and acceptable but it most certainly isnt child abuse in anyway based on the article I actually find that appalling and would be furious over such a mentally retarded trumped up ridiculous charge. Id fight it with every resource i could and hopefully i could find a way to charge the officers for something.

it doesnt say the child was injured in anyway or beaten excessively or left unnourished etc

one punishment was what I did working for landscapers when i was a teen in the summer and the other is walking a couple miles with a fully loaded bookbag because 23lbs is NOTHING. My daughters softball bag is more than that

I dont see any evidence of abuse in the article and thats all i have to go on.

over the top? maybe
child abuse? no
 
Showing a kid who's boss tends to backfire more often than not. Punishments like this are a good way to make a defiant child's behavior worse. Typically it is good parenting to find punishments that induce unpleasant feelings but avoid making a child angry. Boredom and misery for example are great but under appreciated tools.

I made a teenager sit still for two days over a weekend once (excepting necessities) and the results were amazing.

It doesn't backfire IF you are consistent. The reason most punishments fail is lack of consistency. Your right it is a test of wills. A parent needs to start early and often to pass that test.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I don't waste time dealing with people that are only charged with something.

Usually, only when they are convicted does it truly interest me (potentially).

I for one strongly believe in innocence until proven guilty.
 
It doesn't backfire IF you are consistent. The reason most punishments fail is lack of consistency. Your right it is a test of wills. A parent needs to start early and often to pass that test.


If you abuse your kids, keep on abusing them! Consistency is the key!
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I would call it cruelty, which is what he is being charged with. I would say that they should have given him a warning. But for all we know, they could have did that first, and the guy said that he felt there was nothing wrong with the punishment and do it again, and that's why they decided to charge him.

You have at best a hung jury here. Most likely an acquittal. Because just looking at the comments here I doubt highly a jury would convict. Because it seems most don't agree with this being cruel punishment.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Based on available information, it doesn't sound that bad. I certainly don't think it rises to the level of child abuse.


I used to get worked harder than that on an average day of summer break around the farm... in the 105 degree heat, too...
 
If you abuse your kids, keep on abusing them! Consistency is the key!

Lame. Really lame. If your going to bait, flame or troll you could at least be creative about it. :coffeepap
 
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