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Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment [W:59]

Is this Child cruelty or just good discipline?


  • Total voters
    48
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I noticed you left out this part:



Sorry, but yes, that is child abuse.

Nope not abuse just hard work. Hard work never hurt anyone in and of itself and no evidence suggests the boy was injured.
 
Child cruelty or just some good old fashioned discipline?? If you think the former, what 'punishment' do you approve of?


Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment


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It was a bit excessive maybe, but I'm not seeing how it qualifies as "abuse." :shrug:

23 lbs is nothing weight wise, and three miles is a walk in the park (assuming you're not being forced to run it).
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

No, he wasn't. Normal 16 year olds, boys especially, are not 4 foot 2 inches tall (my shortest sister is 5'1", and she is small, the average height of a teenager is definitely over 5 feet tall). Plus, he was overweight by about 60 pounds. That adds another dangerous aspect to it. He was given a time limit of 2 hours or forced to start over (which he had to do obviously since the guy seen him again later). Plus, he was carrying extra weight, and he was doing other physical work outdoors before and/or after these trips. This was not a "Sunday stroll". It was easily dangerous for him, especially since, from the reports we have, he did not have adequate water (enough to last til he got home or almost home).

He was perfectly healthy for his size then. Still plenty able to carry 23 lbs for an hr. And so would a woman/girl be.

No one said it was a SUnday stroll. And an hour without water (3 miles per hr at a walk) in normal temps....he's fine.

This is just ridiculous.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

This kid wasn't even regular day to day shape. And if you were hiking 16 miles (sounds like uphill at least some?) then you were not in "average" shape. You would have been above average.

Most places do not allow their employees to lift over 40 or 50 lbs solo due to 50 lbs being the OSHA recommendation for safe lifting ability of men (women they actually set at half that). Even the shipyard will not allow people to solo lift over 50 lbs. I could easily lift/carry 40 lb water containers for short distances (from where they were in the subs, off them to the truck/cart, then from the cart to the building) but that doesn't mean that anyone should be forced to carry even 23 lbs for over an hour walk, in the heat (~85 degrees), without at least enough water, if any. But especially not a teenager who was not in the best of shape to begin with. And this doesn't even cover the fact that at least some of those times he was alone, and had something happened, it could have been a while before his father or mother even realized that something had happened to him.

Dont tell me what 'I was.' And I was not in above average shape.

And now you are talking about things you have no knowlege of. HOme Depot didnt even require me to wear one of those back brace things. And yes, the big landscaping blocks weight 60 lbs each. YOu can find this out easily on your own.

It wasnt over 85 degrees, some of it was even night time.


This kid could have been out on a day hike with his folks, exactly the same circumstances/weight carried, and no one would blink an eye. 16 year olds have jobs, they drive cars, they do anything they possibly can without their parents...he did not need supervision and he was not in any danger.

The drama and speculation is just silly.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

For someone who is in decent shape and average height. This kid was likely neither. Plus he was carrying a load, which will slow down the average walk time. So, that is more than an hour.

And btw, these women are often nowhere near decent shape and often in heels. No water (lattes probably) and in all weather.

And 23 lbs in not 'a load.' For a normal 16 yr old boy....I dont care how short he was, he wasnt an invalid. It wouldnt slow anyone down much.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

A couple of hours of physical activity without water is life threatening, especially if it was considered "hot" outside (it was in the 80s, which is enough). He didn't just do one of those laps either and simply go back into a cool house. He was then made to move bricks back and forth. And he did that 3 mile lap at least twice in at least one day.

Where did it say he got no water that entire time? Or breaks?
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Poor kid. People are discussing him like being short is a defect.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I worked in the nursery at Home Depot...I carried and loaded more of those stones lthan you can count. And some of them are 60 lbs. And I was about 50 at the time. In between contracts. 23 lbs? If he was going hiking for the day his daypack could easily weigh that. When we hiked the 16 miles to Half Dome & back my pack and water weighed more than that. Again...over 40 yrs old, with no time to get into better shape (just regular day to day shape, not that I'm out of shape but that was a heck of a day hike)

Of course you dodged the situation and substituted your own... the task/conditions and standards are not lift and put, it isn't carry in a day pack. Please list the items you think weighted 23 pounds on this hike of yours. I carried a 35 pound pack that was mostly ammo, food, and water and not for just a day...

Now try doing as the boy had to, carry the stone with both arms, no pack or sling...

I also mentioned bringing a 4'2" child along to do the same thing... (adults are a bit different in developed bone and muscle mass) you seemed to have missed that part, try asking some friends if you can borrow their 4'2" child and have them hug carry a stone. See if they agree it is a literal walk in the park.... :doh
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Of course you dodged the situation and substituted your own... the task/conditions and standards are not lift and put, it isn't carry in a day pack. Please list the items you think weighted 23 pounds on this hike of yours. I carried a 35 pound pack that was mostly ammo, food, and water and not for just a day...

Now try doing as the boy had to, carry the stone with both arms, no pack or sling...

I also mentioned bringing a 4'2" child along to do the same thing... (adults are a bit different in developed bone and muscle mass) you seemed to have missed that part, try asking some friends if you can borrow their 4'2" child and have them hug carry a stone. See if they agree it is a literal walk in the park.... :doh

Water. water, oh, and more water. butane stove. fuel. trail mix/power bars, food, camp pot/utensils, bird book 1 inch thick, dont remember what else. 16 yr old boys are already being recruited for college sports....and hard at it in HS in football, basketball, wrestling...no one is coddling these kids.

Being short is not a defect. ANd it was not meant to be a walk in the park. It was meant to be difficult. It was supposed to be punishment.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Water. water, oh, and more water. butane stove. fuel. trail mix/power bars, food, camp pot/utensils, bird book 1 inch thick, dont remember what else. 16 yr old boys are already being recruited for college sports....and hard at it in HS in football, basketball, wrestling...no one is coddling these kids. Being short is not a defect. ANd it was not meant to be a walk in the park. It was meant to be difficult. It was supposed to be punishment.

More dodge, imagine that... how much water? How much food, cast iron pot or one of those thin pressed aluminum ones? Again the boy in the article didn't get a ruck but had to hug carry the rock. Did you hug carry your load while camping?

Again you dodge the borrow a kid and have them hug carry that stone. Imagine that. :roll:

16 year old boys come in all shapes and sizes, but what 16 year old is already playing college sports? I missed what football team has a 16 year old on the roster.

And I really missed the part where those 16 year olds were 4'2". :doh

Did find a 6'3" 220 pound kid going to the minors with a season ending pulled hamstring in 2011. But he was 18 when he broke into the Bigs.

30 lashes is punishment as well, the question is proper punishment for a MINOR 4'2" child.... :peace
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

More dodge, imagine that... how much water? How much food, cast iron pot or one of those thin pressed aluminum ones? Again the boy in the article didn't get a ruck but had to hug carry the rock. Did you hug carry your load while camping?

Again you dodge the borrow a kid and have them hug carry that stone. Imagine that. :roll:

16 year old boys come in all shapes and sizes, but what 16 year old is already playing college sports? I missed what football team has a 16 year old on the roster.

And I really missed the part where those 16 year olds were 4'2". :doh

Did find a 6'3" 220 pound kid going to the minors with a season ending pulled hamstring in 2011. But he was 18 when he broke into the Bigs.

30 lashes is punishment as well, the question is proper punishment for a MINOR 4'2" child.... :peace

I didnt dodge anything. You're speculating out your ass, at least I gave specifics...which you asked for.

Yes, he's the ONLY 4'2" 16 yr old male and he was completely out of shape and in great danger. Speculate away

However since he did it multiple times without harming himself at all...it seems like reality is on my side.

The proof is in the condition of the kid.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

He was perfectly healthy for his size then. Still plenty able to carry 23 lbs for an hr. And so would a woman/girl be.

No one said it was a SUnday stroll. And an hour without water (3 miles per hr at a walk) in normal temps....he's fine.

This is just ridiculous.

He was not healthy for his size at all. Being overweight by 60lbs is not healthy, at all.

More than an hour without water, while walking carrying a 23lb weight in hot weather means needing more water. Plus he was doing extra exercise before and/or after.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Dont tell me what 'I was.' And I was not in above average shape.

And now you are talking about things you have no knowlege of. HOme Depot didnt even require me to wear one of those back brace things. And yes, the big landscaping blocks weight 60 lbs each. YOu can find this out easily on your own.

It wasnt over 85 degrees, some of it was even night time.


This kid could have been out on a day hike with his folks, exactly the same circumstances/weight carried, and no one would blink an eye. 16 year olds have jobs, they drive cars, they do anything they possibly can without their parents...he did not need supervision and he was not in any danger.

The drama and speculation is just silly.

I checked the weather conditions for the area for this past weekend, it was a high of 87 degrees, and highs are normally reached during the middle of the day, and the low during the day was around 75 degrees. When he was noticed by the pizza delivery driver (who generally don't come out til around noon, at the earliest), it was day time (the night one was done with his father). The driver saw him twice, and said he looked sweaty and tired.

My brother, who is young and in pretty good shape was tired out hiking about the same amount that you said you did with an over 20lb pack on. The average person would have trouble hiking that distance (particularly if it was uphill) without that size pack on, at least a person of average fitness here in the US.

Day hikes with your folks generally do not include carrying a 23lb rock, would not be alone on a road, would include water or at least the resources to get some, and most importantly, they would be done voluntarily and the parents would actually be showing they cared by being there with him.

What he needed was not to be doing that punishment.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

And btw, these women are often nowhere near decent shape and often in heels. No water (lattes probably) and in all weather.

And 23 lbs in not 'a load.' For a normal 16 yr old boy....I dont care how short he was, he wasnt an invalid. It wouldnt slow anyone down much.

23lbs is a load. He was not a normal 16 year old boy. Just because he wasn't an invalid doesn't mean that it is healthy for him to be doing that much exercise/work at a time, without any known source of water.

What women? Those walking around that you claim do it during their lunch break. I highly doubt you can make 3 miles in heels on an hour lunch break. Not unless you are in some amazing shape to begin with.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

This is not a normal discipline technique because we would see 16 year old teens carrying stones all the time. I am positive anyone claiming that this from of discipline is "OK" would ever do the same...Zero.

If you recieved similar type of discipline as a child...Is this the type of disipline you employ with your children now? Most people that had rough discipline don't do the same as their parents. My best friend recieved the electrical cord form of discipline. I can never remember him using corporal punishment on his kids...his kids were well behaved.

My father could be a hard ass at times[because his father was]...and if he got close to that messed up line, mom would bring things to an end. No one crossed my mother. No one f-ed with her kids.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I didnt dodge anything. You're speculating out your ass, at least I gave specifics...which you asked for.

Yes, he's the ONLY 4'2" 16 yr old male and he was completely out of shape and in great danger. Speculate away

However since he did it multiple times without harming himself at all...it seems like reality is on my side.

The proof is in the condition of the kid.

Just because nothing did happen to the kid, doesn't mean he wasn't in danger from things happening due to that punishment. That logic is completely horrible.

We really don't know the condition of the kid, but it was obviously enough for the police to intervene.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

That punishment was inappropriate and ruthless. Your son is not at boot camp. If my Father had dropped me off with the big rock, I'd have left it there and gone the other way. Couch surfing would be a better life than growing up under the DI Dad.

I'm glad that the Police stepped in. The charges will probably be dropped, but what better way to pay back the Dad is there than having him be arrested.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

this has got to be one messed up father.

a 16 year old male who is only 4'2" kind of makes you wonder whether dad has been withholding food as punishment too.

this kind of physical punishment has NO place in any home from any parent.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I cant believe how many people think the punishment is just. Imagine walking down the street and seeing children carrying rocks for miles back and forth. It's disgusting and cruel. Period point blank. Any parent who would imply such draconian punishment on their child should have their child taken from them. There are productive and effective ways to correct bad behavior. Communication is the biggest one. The easy way out is to think up mean and unorthodox punishments that simultaneously over exert and humiliate your child.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I didnt dodge anything. You're speculating out your ass, at least I gave specifics...which you asked for. Yes, he's the ONLY 4'2" 16 yr old male and he was completely out of shape and in great danger. Speculate away However since he did it multiple times without harming himself at all...it seems like reality is on my side. The proof is in the condition of the kid.

Not speculating abit, you dodged answering the question about asking a friend to borrow their 4'2" child and force them to hug carry a landscape block for 3 miles.

You try and use a backpack carry as the same as a hug carry- pure BS.

Again the standard isn't 'great danger' you are being willfully ignorant... cruelty doesn't mean permanent damage, you can be very abusive and leave little if any marks...

But like I said, you try hug carrying the equiv of your body weight the boy did, you try and get a friend to loan you a 4'2" kid to see just how 'harmless' hug carrying a big rock is...

That is the dodge, you know what that parent would say. :doh
 
It was a bit excessive maybe, but I'm not seeing how it qualifies as "abuse." :shrug:

23 lbs is nothing weight wise, and three miles is a walk in the park (assuming you're not being forced to run it).

Yes - it seems that some people don't know what abuse really can look like.

Locking children in cages.
Whipping them and beating them so they're injured and bleeding.
Depriving them of necessities like food and water so they suffer from it.

- That's abuse.

Further, I fail to see how jailtime for dad (what some are advocating) is going to teach this kid anything. Gesus: a lot of teens don't even have two parents. This one did and because of the child's behavior the father chose an untraditional form of punishment. And some want the father locked away? That makes no sense - then that will only encourage the child's behavior and discourage the parents from handling him.

It's sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't. Nothing is good enough - and people wonder why kids are worse and worse these days.

I'm not sure what the final decision is from the state - but usually minor allegations of child abuse are countered with parenting classes, not jail time for the parent.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Yeah, that's not racist.

What's racist about acknowledging a serious problem affecting the black community?

For the life of me I just don't understand American hangups on race.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

to those that answered, This was fine and acceptable, in the poll, how many of you have children? would you use this as a form punishment for you child?

i'll take a bet, NOT one you!!
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

In my county the police would be dropping the charges with in day, that is if they were that stupid enough to arrest the man in the first place. If it EVER got to trial, the jury would toss it so fast it would make the stupid prosecutors head spin. We have dumb prosecutors but I doubt they are this dumb. This all presumes the judge doesn't toss it themselves.

Your right I do have an emotional attachment. This is a bull**** charge though and through. This family is now being tortured by CPS and the judicial system. That's cruel and unusual punishment, for a nonexistent crime.

The fact is, that the arrest for child abuse will always be on this mans record and it will follow him for the rest of his life.
 
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