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Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment [W:59]

Is this Child cruelty or just good discipline?


  • Total voters
    48
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Sounds like the son was being lazy, yet again, and couldn't even complete the task he was given for not doing the tasks he was given. Clearly there is a pattern here with this kid.

Okay, so blame the kid for being tired and still having to go out again, after that time.

The punishment was excessive. He could have faced serious medical issues had he been out there longer, especially without an adequate (if any) amount of water.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I was incredulous to find that alot of people think this isn't child cruelty. There are steps in punishing your child. Cutting phone and computer use works like magic, especially for a computer obsession problem. If you think physical labor is the answer, than at don't hurt him and instead send him to a grandparents house to do yardwork. This will either motivate him to get his HW done, or realize that outdoors isn't so bad and will spend more time outside. There are still more steps. Schools have detentions for a reason, and quiet place where their only option is to get work done. Public humiliation should be the last step, after you have consulted a teacher and the doctor. The kid may be depressed. Nonetheless, doing what he did is cruel. The chance that the kid hurts is back carrying the stone is pretty high, and to me it sounds as if the dad needs to think more deeply about his punishments.
Luckily, the police agree.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Well the question was- did you hump rucks filled with rocks. I WAS a grunt, not just 'went through quite a bit of infantry training' and NEVER EVER humped rocks. Never carried a rock in my arms, like the kid was doing, anyplace.

For most REMFs 'infantry training' was playing bang bang with blanks while running around throwing the occasional fake grenade. Throw in some bunker duty and they thought themselves VERY salty...

One of my last assignments in the RA was as OPFOR during ATEPs for rear echelon units- real pud knocker duty but fun to watch Pogues try and play grunt... :mrgreen:

I didn't lug too many rocks around but I did carry an M60 for a few years. As far as being a grunt....no, I wouldn't call myself a grunt but I've still got a bit of Central American mud on my boots, know enough not to look over the sandbag in front of you when you hear a "THWAP" and understand that those two guys you're tracking might just have 20 or 30 buddies hanging around when you find them.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

He could also face serious medical issues by sitting in front of his computer watching YouTube videos all day.

Okay, so blame the kid for being tired and still having to go out again, after that time.

The punishment was excessive. He could have faced serious medical issues had he been out there longer, especially without an adequate (if any) amount of water.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

He could also face serious medical issues by sitting in front of his computer watching YouTube videos all day.

He could. And that is why an alternative punishment, even with physical activity, that takes him away from the computer, TV, whatever would be good. Just not this much. Heck, I wouldn't have said that moving doing just part of what he was given was excessive. Not exactly "punishment fitting the crime", but still not excessive. It was all of it together that I find excessive. I'd be all for putting the kid on a reasonable diet and exercise program. But this is not an exercise program that any doctor would ever say was appropriate. Especially if the kid actually isn't that active normally.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I didn't lug too many rocks around but I did carry an M60 for a few years. As far as being a grunt....no, I wouldn't call myself a grunt but I've still got a bit of Central American mud on my boots, know enough not to look over the sandbag in front of you when you hear a "THWAP" and understand that those two guys you're tracking might just have 20 or 30 buddies hanging around when you find them.

So the answer is you never carried rocks in basic or in the AF 'almost like a grunt school'. You did read where the boy was 4'2", how tall were you when you humped a pig?

Now the fun part, what were you doing in CA tracking a couple of bad guys? (I long ago ditched my old gear) And of course how come you get to hide behind a sandbag while tracking bad guys??? I NEVER had a handy sandbag when return fire came on patrol... you had all the luck...

FYI next time you want to try the 'grunt-like' thing when dismissing minors being punished, lead with the muddy boots/ thwap thing rather than sorta like grunt training/ perimeter guard in Europe thing, Folks might think you are violating the Geneva Convention and using enhanced justification techniques ... ;)
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

The average male walks at a normal (no weight being carried) speed of 3.5 mph. This is someone who is going to be about average height (around 5'10" for guys) and in decent physical condition. Plus, that does not include the extra activities that went on at home.

There ya go...an hr. THere's a 3 mile loop in the middle of Seattle around a lake. Women in groups lolling about discussing their relationships (city inside joke) do it on lunch hr.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Okay, so blame the kid for being tired and still having to go out again, after that time.

The punishment was excessive. He could have faced serious medical issues had he been out there longer, especially without an adequate (if any) amount of water.

Kids do the same voluntarily playing sports all the time.

An hr without water in normal temps, doing some work, is not death-defying.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Carrying a stone for several miles is absurd. I'm sorry, I usually have no issue with old school parenting and "slapping." But, that's just wrong.

Who the hell does that?
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

So the answer is you never carried rocks in basic or in the AF 'almost like a grunt school'. You did read where the boy was 4'2", how tall were you when you humped a pig?

Now the fun part, what were you doing in CA tracking a couple of bad guys? (I long ago ditched my old gear) And of course how come you get to hide behind a sandbag while tracking bad guys??? I NEVER had a handy sandbag when return fire came on patrol... you had all the luck...

FYI next time you want to try the 'grunt-like' thing when dismissing minors being punished, lead with the muddy boots/ thwap thing rather than sorta like grunt training/ perimeter guard in Europe thing, Folks might think you are violating the Geneva Convention and using enhanced justification techniques ... ;)

I was 5'11" and 136# pounds when I left for basic. 7 months later when I came home before my permanent party deployment I'd put on 30 pounds. 4 years after that I'd put on another 15 and not an ounce of it was fat.

I'm not sure what your beef is with all this. The discussion was about whether or not military type training was a reasonable form of discipline for a kid and, in my experience, it certainly is. Lugging the rock around is hardly different than having to run laps around your squad on a march. The idea is that once the kid does this a few times he'll figure out that being a jackass doesn't pay and sticking to the established standards does. It's cramming the idea that if you think it's bad now you'd better damned well learn that it could be a heck of a lot worse home.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

There ya go...an hr. THere's a 3 mile loop in the middle of Seattle around a lake. Women in groups lolling about discussing their relationships (city inside joke) do it on lunch hr.

For someone who is in decent shape and average height. This kid was likely neither. Plus he was carrying a load, which will slow down the average walk time. So, that is more than an hour.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Kids do the same voluntarily playing sports all the time.

An hr without water in normal temps, doing some work, is not death-defying.

A couple of hours of physical activity without water is life threatening, especially if it was considered "hot" outside (it was in the 80s, which is enough). He didn't just do one of those laps either and simply go back into a cool house. He was then made to move bricks back and forth. And he did that 3 mile lap at least twice in at least one day.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I was 5'11" and 136# pounds when I left for basic. 7 months later when I came home before my permanent party deployment I'd put on 30 pounds. 4 years after that I'd put on another 15 and not an ounce of it was fat.

I'm not sure what your beef is with all this. The discussion was about whether or not military type training was a reasonable form of discipline for a kid and, in my experience, it certainly is. Lugging the rock around is hardly different than having to run laps around your squad on a march. The idea is that once the kid does this a few times he'll figure out that being a jackass doesn't pay and sticking to the established standards does. It's cramming the idea that if you think it's bad now you'd better damned well learn that it could be a heck of a lot worse home.

Just trying to make sense of your claims is all... FYI we had 'punishment' of running around our unit while on the move in training- usually while double timing. However it would have been a breeze to only have to do it around the 8 man squad (we never had a full squad), no we ran around the platoon at a minimum. And no that isn't the same as a 4'2" kid carrying the equiv of a M60 'pig' without a carrying strap.

You bring up the perimeter guard/'sorta grunt training'/hunting bad guys in CA as some sort of proof you know what rock humping is like... I just wanted a bit more info on the claims YOU made, the sandbag has me amazed- did you carry that as well as the pig? :doh

Now carrying rocks isn't military TRAINING, it is military PUNISHMENT. Like I said earlier a man in my squad was sent to CCF (Correctional Custody Facility to you non military types- a step above an AR15 and a BIG step below Ft. Riley) so several times I'd go visit the young man and watch some of his 'motivation exercises'. I NEVER did any of those exercises in basic, Advanced Infantry School, active duty or in the National Guard.

It now appears you never did either... good to know.... Scouts Out brah.... :peace
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

There ya go...an hr. THere's a 3 mile loop in the middle of Seattle around a lake. Women in groups lolling about discussing their relationships (city inside joke) do it on lunch hr.

If I may suggest, you take a landscaping stone and carry it around that course to get a better understanding of the issue. If you have a child why not have them carry one as well, if you don't have one of your own see if you can borrow a 4'2" child and have them carry a rock beside you (see if the child's parents are as cavalier about it as you are trying to pretend.)

HUGE difference from playing sports, I played outside damn near from sunup to sundown as a child, worked outdoors damn near as long when a teenager- joining the Infantry kicked my ass for awhile and I was quite a bit taller than 4'2" and 18, not 16.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

A couple of hours of physical activity without water is life threatening, especially if it was considered "hot" outside (it was in the 80s, which is enough). He didn't just do one of those laps either and simply go back into a cool house. He was then made to move bricks back and forth. And he did that 3 mile lap at least twice in at least one day.

He was a normal healthy 16 yr old boy carrying 23 lbs. Please, it sounds like he was even setting his own pace.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

If I may suggest, you take a landscaping stone and carry it around that course to get a better understanding of the issue. If you have a child why not have them carry one as well, if you don't have one of your own see if you can borrow a 4'2" child and have them carry a rock beside you (see if the child's parents are as cavalier about it as you are trying to pretend.)

HUGE difference from playing sports, I played outside damn near from sunup to sundown as a child, worked outdoors damn near as long when a teenager- joining the Infantry kicked my ass for awhile and I was quite a bit taller than 4'2" and 18, not 16.

I worked in the nursery at Home Depot...I carried and loaded more of those stones lthan you can count. And some of them are 60 lbs. And I was about 50 at the time. In between contracts.

23 lbs? If he was going hiking for the day his daypack could easily weigh that.

When we hiked the 16 miles to Half Dome & back my pack and water weighed more than that. Again...over 40 yrs old, with no time to get into better shape (just regular day to day shape, not that I'm out of shape but that was a heck of a day hike)
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

He was a normal healthy 16 yr old boy carrying 23 lbs. Please, it sounds like he was even setting his own pace.

No, he wasn't. Normal 16 year olds, boys especially, are not 4 foot 2 inches tall (my shortest sister is 5'1", and she is small, the average height of a teenager is definitely over 5 feet tall). Plus, he was overweight by about 60 pounds. That adds another dangerous aspect to it. He was given a time limit of 2 hours or forced to start over (which he had to do obviously since the guy seen him again later). Plus, he was carrying extra weight, and he was doing other physical work outdoors before and/or after these trips. This was not a "Sunday stroll". It was easily dangerous for him, especially since, from the reports we have, he did not have adequate water (enough to last til he got home or almost home).
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I worked in the nursery at Home Depot...I carried and loaded more of those stones lthan you can count. And some of them are 60 lbs. And I was about 50 at the time. In between contracts.

23 lbs? If he was going hiking for the day his daypack could easily weigh that.

When we hiked the 16 miles to Half Dome & back my pack and water weighed more than that. Again...over 40 yrs old, with no time to get into better shape (just regular day to day shape, not that I'm out of shape but that was a heck of a day hike)

This kid wasn't even regular day to day shape. And if you were hiking 16 miles (sounds like uphill at least some?) then you were not in "average" shape. You would have been above average.

Most places do not allow their employees to lift over 40 or 50 lbs solo due to 50 lbs being the OSHA recommendation for safe lifting ability of men (women they actually set at half that). Even the shipyard will not allow people to solo lift over 50 lbs. I could easily lift/carry 40 lb water containers for short distances (from where they were in the subs, off them to the truck/cart, then from the cart to the building) but that doesn't mean that anyone should be forced to carry even 23 lbs for over an hour walk, in the heat (~85 degrees), without at least enough water, if any. But especially not a teenager who was not in the best of shape to begin with. And this doesn't even cover the fact that at least some of those times he was alone, and had something happened, it could have been a while before his father or mother even realized that something had happened to him.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

No, he wasn't. Normal 16 year olds, boys especially, are not 4 foot 2 inches tall (my shortest sister is 5'1", and she is small, the average height of a teenager is definitely over 5 feet tall). Plus, he was overweight by about 60 pounds. That adds another dangerous aspect to it. He was given a time limit of 2 hours or forced to start over (which he had to do obviously since the guy seen him again later). Plus, he was carrying extra weight, and he was doing other physical work outdoors before and/or after these trips. This was not a "Sunday stroll". It was easily dangerous for him, especially since, from the reports we have, he did not have adequate water (enough to last til he got home or almost home).

You must have access to more information than I have.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

You must have access to more information than I have.

Like what? His height was given in at least one of those stories posted. It is quite easy to look up much of the other stuff. The delivery driver stated that he had no water (or anything to drink) on him either time he saw him. I looked up the weather for the area, and it told me that it was 75-87 degrees in the area over this past weekend. The time limit was in the story (at least one of them). Boys at age 16 are on average about 5'7" tall (my height). At 4'2" tall, he was the average height of an 8 or 9 year old. (In fact, the delivery guy stated that he thought he was a child, not a teenager.)

The Average Weight & Height for a 16 Year Old | LIVESTRONG.COM
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

Like what? His height was given in at least one of those stories posted. It is quite easy to look up much of the other stuff. The delivery driver stated that he had no water (or anything to drink) on him either time he saw him. I looked up the weather for the area, and it told me that it was 75-87 degrees in the area over this past weekend. The time limit was in the story (at least one of them). Boys at age 16 are on average about 5'7" tall (my height). At 4'2" tall, he was the average height of an 8 or 9 year old. (In fact, the delivery guy stated that he thought he was a child, not a teenager.)

The Average Weight & Height for a 16 Year Old | LIVESTRONG.COM

You have no idea what kind of shape this kid is in. Its all speculation. I was/am a smaller guy, so I know what goes along with that. As a 16 year old kid, I am confident that i could done a 3 mile hike in 2 hours with no water. But the lack of water is still speculation. So the driver didn't see any the two times that he saw the kid. Maybe the father was making him drink water prior to the walk, you just dont know. And the article said the kid only made the hike 4 times in 3 days.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

The hikes were only part of it.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

I think whether this is abuse relies on a few things:

A) Did he deprive the teenager of water?
B) Did he hurl abusive words and other things in order to break down the child's mental outlook?
C) Was the child physically capable of handling the walk, the stones, etc.

If it was within the teen's physical abilities and he wasn't in danger - it's not abuse.

If it was outside of the teen's physical abilities and he was put in danger - it is abuse.

Because at 15/16 I used to help my dad mow the lawn and lay sod - landscaping - and other stuff like that whether I wanted to or not. Abuse? Hardly. It was work that needed to be done and I was quite capable of doing it. He didn't deprive me of necessities or treat me poorly during the process - but he did make me finish what we started.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

You have no idea what kind of shape this kid is in. Its all speculation. I was/am a smaller guy, so I know what goes along with that. As a 16 year old kid, I am confident that i could done a 3 mile hike in 2 hours with no water. But the lack of water is still speculation. So the driver didn't see any the two times that he saw the kid. Maybe the father was making him drink water prior to the walk, you just dont know. And the article said the kid only made the hike 4 times in 3 days.

And two of those times were during the day the driver seen the kid (since he saw him twice). One of those was at 2 am (the cop cam proves that one). We don't know when the other was.

You are not a representative of every 16 year old kid, and I doubt you were the size of an 8 or 9 year old at 16 (at least in height). Plus, were you overweight by about 60lbs? One of the stories gives that the kid was about 145 lbs (that is in the 95% for height/weight recommendations for a 16 year old and "overweight") (looked that up too). Not having enough water to last at least 2 hours of heavy exercise (which is what that was even if his pace was a constant walk), means that had something happened to him (hurt himself, had to stop from heat exhaustion, etc.), he would not have had water for him to last on after doing physical activity. That is not proper planning, particularly for the situation. If you are walking for 3 miles carrying something that weighs 20+ lbs, then you should have water on you.
 
Re: Father faces child cruelty charges for teen's punishment..

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I hope the guy does some prison time. He's a scumball.
 
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