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Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

Was Karl Marx Right About Capitalism?

  • Yes

    Votes: 30 41.1%
  • No

    Votes: 43 58.9%

  • Total voters
    73
when this amendment was passed by congress, it outlawed slavery in america.....by just a general statement..it listed no punishment no procedures no specifics, for handing the issue of slavery.

governments....cannot go to jail, only people can go to jail.

when a state violates the 13th, they go to court, for a constitutional violation against the people that were harmed, with the people represented by the federal government.

when a citizen commits slavery,. it is a federal crime, because amendment 13 gives the congress authority to write federal criminal law, with states what the specifics of the law are, and what the punishment will be for the crime.

so constitutional law,rules when a government violates the constitution, criminal law rules when a person commits a crime of the against another citiznen, or violates a federal power....

There is no federal statute that sets a punishment for slavery. Why? Because the 13th amendment is an absolute declaration that slavery does not exist in the United States. Period. There is no need of a federal statute to punish the crime of slavery because slavery simply does not exist. It applies to governments as well as individuals. The relevant Supreme Court decision on the matter

This amendment, ... is undoubtedly self-executing, without any ancillary legislation, so far as its terms are applicable to any existing state of circumstances. By its own unaided force and effect, it abolished slavery and established universal freedom.
..........
the amendment is not a mere prohibition of State laws establishing or upholding slavery, but an absolute declaration that slavery or involuntary servitude shall not exist in any part of the United States.
 
There is no federal statute that sets a punishment for slavery. Why? Because the 13th amendment is an absolute declaration that slavery does not exist in the United States. Period. There is no need of a federal statute to punish the crime of slavery because slavery simply does not exist. It applies to governments as well as individuals. The relevant Supreme Court decision on the matter

http://www.polarisproject.org/resources/state-and-federal-laws


State and Federal Laws


Human trafficking, also known as trafficking in persons (TIP), is a modern-day form of slavery. It is a crime under federal and international law; it is also a crime in almost every state in the U.S.

Federal Anti-Trafficking Laws
The Trafficking Victims Protection Act (TVPA) of 2000 is the first comprehensive federal law to address trafficking in persons. The law provides a three-pronged approach that includes prevention, protection, and prosecution. The TVPA was reauthorized through the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act (TVPRA) of 2003, 2005, 2008, and 2013.


Under U.S. federal law, “severe forms of trafficking in persons” includes both sex trafficking and labor trafficking:

Sex trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for the purposes of a commercial sex act, in which the commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such an act has not attained 18 years of age, (22 USC § 7102; 8 CFR § 214.11(a)).

Labor trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purposes of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery, (22 USC § 7102).


U.S. State Department Trafficking in Persons Report 2009. The linked page contains links to the various portions of the report. I recommend first visiting the maps to learn which countries have the highest incidence and most serious forms of slavery and human trafficking. The report also contains a section describing U.S. Government Domestic Anti-Trafficking Efforts, as well as a list of nine Relevant International Conventions prohibiting various forms of human trafficking.

June 2009 Attorney General's Annual Report to Congress and Assessment of U.S. Government Activities to Combat Trafficking in Persons Fiscal Year 2008, making eight general and several specific recommendations for improving the United States' response to human trafficking, mainly regarding improved coordination among public agencies and increased awareness of the problem within law enforcement and the larger community.

January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States.<---------------

The federal government has enacted a number of laws against slavery and human trafficking, including the following:

Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons, 18 U.S.C. 1581 et seq., making slavery, the slave trade, and related activities a crime.

Trafficking Victims Protection Act (TVPA), 22 U.S.C. 7101 et seq. The introductory section to this law states:

The purposes of this chapter are to combat trafficking in persons, a contemporary manifestation of slavery whose victims are predominantly women and children, to ensure just and effective punishment of traffickers, and to protect their victims.

Sex Trafficking of Children by Force, Fraud, or Coercion, 18 U.S.C. 1591, making sex trafficking of children a crime.

Prevention of Domestic Trafficking in Persons, 42 U.S.C. 14044, requiring the Attorney General to hold an annual conference and issue an annual report on human trafficking.

And here is a link to the National Human Trafficking Resource Center, a national, toll-free hotline for reporting incidents of slavery and human trafficking. The number is 1-888-3737-888.

https://sites.google.com/site/huhnconstitutionallaw/discussion/slavery


Chapter 77 ("Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons") of Title 18 of the U.S. Code has a number of provisions against slave trading, enslavement, and related crimes. For example, 18 U.S.C. § 1589 ("Forced labor") states:
Quote:
Sec. 1589. Forced labor Whoever knowingly provides or obtains the labor or services of a
person--

(1) by threats of serious harm to, or physical restraint
against, that person or another person;
(2) by means of any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause
the person to believe that, if the person did not perform such labor
or services, that person or another person would suffer serious harm
or physical restraint; or
(3) by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the
legal process,shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or<------------
both. If death results from the violation of this section, or if the
violation includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual
abuse or the attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to
kill, the defendant shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for <----------------
any term of years or life, or both.
 
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Human trafficking, also known as trafficking in persons (TIP), is a modern-day form of slavery. It is a crime under federal and international law; it is also a crime in almost every state in the U.S.

Human trafficking is technically NOT slavery. Show me a federal statute or Supreme Court ruling that states that human trafficking is slavery. No one is tried for the crime of slavery, because slavery does not exist in the United States.
 
Human trafficking is technically NOT slavery. Show me a federal statute or Supreme Court ruling that states that human trafficking is slavery. No one is tried for the crime of slavery, because slavery does not exist in the United States.



Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons, 18 U.S.C. 1581 et seq., making slavery, the slave trade, and related activities a crime.<---------------

January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States.<---------------



U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 77
18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-77
 
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Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons, 18 U.S.C. 1581 et seq., making slavery, the slave trade, and related activities a crime.<---------------

January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States.<---------------

That is the statement of a website. What is posted on a website is not law. Here's the law

(a) Whoever holds or returns any person to a condition of peonage, or arrests any person with the intent of placing him in or returning him to a condition of peonage, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If death results from the violation of this section, or if the violation includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or the attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, the defendant shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or life, or both.
(b) Whoever obstructs, or attempts to obstruct, or in any way interferes with or prevents the enforcement of this section, shall be liable to the penalties prescribed in subsection (a).

Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the United States is there a statute that explicitly states what the punishment is for slavery. NOWHERE! Again, THE SUPREME COURT HAS CLEARLY STATED THAT THE THIRTEENTH AMENDMENT DOES NOT NEED ANCILLARY LEGISLATION.

This amendment, ... is undoubtedly self-executing, without any ancillary legislation, so far as its terms are applicable to any existing state of circumstances.
 
That is the statement of a website. What is posted on a website is not law. Here's the law



Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the United States is there a statute that explicitly states what the punishment is for slavery. NOWHERE! Again, THE SUPREME COURT HAS CLEARLY STATED THAT THE THIRTEENTH AMENDMENT DOES NOT NEED ANCILLARY LEGISLATION.



its tough being wrong isn't it?




18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

§ 1581. Peonage; obstructing enforcement
§ 1582. Vessels for slave trade
§ 1583. Enticement into slavery
§ 1584. Sale into involuntary servitude
§ 1585. Seizure, detention, transportation or sale of slaves
§ 1586. Service on vessels in slave trade
§ 1587. Possession of slaves aboard vessel
§ 1588. Transportation of slaves from United States
§ 1589. Forced labor
§ 1590. Trafficking with respect to peonage, slavery, involuntary servitude, or forced labor
§ 1591. Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion
§ 1592. Unlawful conduct with respect to documents in furtherance of trafficking, peonage, slavery, involuntary servitude, or forced labor
§ 1593. Mandatory restitution
§ 1593A. Benefitting financially from peonage, slavery, and trafficking in persons
§ 1594. General provisions
§ 1595. Civil remedy
§ 1596. Additional jurisdiction in certain trafficking offenses
§ 1597. Unlawful conduct with respect to immigration documents
§ 1588 - Transportation of slaves from United States


Chapter 77 ("Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons") of Title 18 of the U.S. Code has a number of provisions against slave trading, enslavement, and related crimes. For example, 18 U.S.C. § 1589 ("Forced labor") states:
Quote:
Sec. 1589. Forced labor Whoever knowingly provides or obtains the labor or services of a
person--

(1) by threats of serious harm to, or physical restraint
against, that person or another person;
(2) by means of any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause
the person to believe that, if the person did not perform such labor
or services, that person or another person would suffer serious harm
or physical restraint; or
(3) by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the
legal process,shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or<-------------------------------------------------------------!
both. If death results from the violation of this section, or if the
violation includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual
abuse or the attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to
kill, the defendant shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for <---------------------------------------------------------!
any term of years or life, or both.



slavery by a person is a crime.

slavery sanctioned by government is a constitutional violation.
 
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its tough being wrong isn't it?

18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

§ 1581. Peonage; obstructing enforcement
§ 1582. Vessels for slave trade
§ 1583. Enticement into slavery
§ 1584. Sale into involuntary servitude
§ 1585. Seizure, detention, transportation or sale of slaves
§ 1586. Service on vessels in slave trade
§ 1587. Possession of slaves aboard vessel
§ 1588. Transportation of slaves from United States
§ 1589. Forced labor
§ 1590. Trafficking with respect to peonage, slavery, involuntary servitude, or forced labor
§ 1591. Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion
§ 1592. Unlawful conduct with respect to documents in furtherance of trafficking, peonage, slavery, involuntary servitude, or forced labor
§ 1593. Mandatory restitution
§ 1593A. Benefitting financially from peonage, slavery, and trafficking in persons
§ 1594. General provisions
§ 1595. Civil remedy
§ 1596. Additional jurisdiction in certain trafficking offenses
§ 1597. Unlawful conduct with respect to immigration documents
§ 1588 - Transportation of slaves from United States


Chapter 77 ("Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons") of Title 18 of the U.S. Code has a number of provisions against slave trading, enslavement, and related crimes. For example, 18 U.S.C. § 1589 ("Forced labor") states:
Quote:
Sec. 1589. Forced labor Whoever knowingly provides or obtains the labor or services of a
person--

(1) by threats of serious harm to, or physical restraint
against, that person or another person;
(2) by means of any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause
the person to believe that, if the person did not perform such labor
or services, that person or another person would suffer serious harm
or physical restraint; or
(3) by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the
legal process,shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or<-------------------------------------------------------------!
both. If death results from the violation of this section, or if the
violation includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual
abuse or the attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to
kill, the defendant shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for <---------------------------------------------------------!
any term of years or life, or both.



slavery by a person is a crime.

slavery sanctioned by government is a constitutional violation.

It's not hard being wrong, if that's the truth. And that's the difference between you and me.

There is no crime called slavery, because you would have to first make a person a slave, and that's not possible in the United States. You can't bring a person to court and say he made someone a slave, because in the United States it is not possible to make a person a slave. Now you can be prosecuted for forcing a person to do labor, or something like that. But there is no crime for making a person a slave. That's my point, because according 13th Amendment slavery does not exist.
 
It's not hard being wrong, if that's the truth. And that's the difference between you and me.

There is no crime called slavery, because you would have to first make a person a slave, and that's not possible in the United States. You can't bring a person to court and say he made someone a slave, because in the United States it is not possible to make a person a slave. Now you can be prosecuted for forcing a person to do labor, or something like that. But there is no crime for making a person a slave. That's my point, because according 13th Amendment slavery does not exist.


i am having one H*LL of a time watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper in that hole.
 
i am having one H*LL of a time watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper in that hole.

I'm not digging myself into a hole. You may want that, but I'm telling the truth. No one is brought to court on the crime that they made someone a slave, because you can't make a person a slave in the United States. You can bring them to court saying for forced labor however.
 
I'm not digging myself into a hole. You may want that, but I'm telling the truth. No one is brought to court on the crime that they made someone a slave, because you can't make a person a slave in the United States. You can bring them to court saying for forced labor however.

you seem to be off the subject, trying to save face.


a person cannot violate the constitution, they can only commit crimes.

government commits constitutional violations..
 
you seem to be off the subject, trying to save face.

a person cannot violate the constitution, they can only commit crimes.

government commits constitutional violations..

I'm not off subject, because the point is that the 13th amendment applies not only to governments, but individuals as well. Therefore the Supreme Court has said

This amendment, as well as the Fourteenth, is undoubtedly self-executing, without any ancillary legislation, so far as its terms are applicable to any existing state of circumstances. By its own unaided force and effect, it abolished slavery and established universal freedom.
..............
the amendment is not a mere prohibition of State laws establishing or upholding slavery, but an absolute declaration that slavery or involuntary servitude shall not exist in any part of the United States.
 
no... crime applys to the people ,not constitutional aw

There is no crime called slavery because slavery does not exist because of the 13th amendment. No one has been brought to trial on the accusation that they made someone a slave, because you simply cannot do so in the United States. The 13th Amendment is a absolute declaration that applies to government and individuals in the United States, and the Supreme Court has confirmed that view

the amendment is not a mere prohibition of State laws establishing or upholding slavery, but an absolute declaration that slavery or involuntary servitude shall not exist in any part of the United States.
 
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There is no crime called slavery because slavery does not exist because of the 13th amendment. No one has been brought to trial on the accusation that they made someone a slave, because you simply cannot do so in the United States. The 13th Amendment is a absolute declaration that applies to government and individuals in the United States, and the Supreme Court has confirmed that view

January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States.<---------------


http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cshti08.pdf

again slavery is a crime.....it is not a constitutional violation by a citizen as you claimed from the start,..stop deflecting.


Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons, 18 U.S.C. 1581 et seq., making slavery, the slave trade, and related activities a crime.<---------------

January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States.<---------------



U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 77
18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/te...t-I/chapter-77
 
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Ukrainian brothers charged with slave labor in Philadelphia

Ukrainian brothers charged with slave labor in Philadelphia - Philly.com


Labor trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purposes of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery, (22 USC § 7102).
 
It depends on what you define as "capitalism." Modern definitions of capitalism greatly differ from the marxist definition of capitalism. It has gotten to the point in which if you were to walk up to the average political activist and call yourself a "free market anti-capitalist" they'd look at you like you're smoking something. I think people have forgotten that capitalism is a specific structure of an inevitable market, rather than just a market itself. You can have markets without capitalism.

As far as the specific OP question, if you preface the question with "Was Karl Marx Right About..." 9 times out of 10 you are going to get the answer no from me. He's not the evil big government stalinist that the right makes him out to be, but he's frankly an economic illiterate with no grip on reality. We can live in the sunshine and rainbows dream universe where everybody is equal to everybody and nobody ever suffers, but that will never happen. This is where marxists, communists, socialists, left-libertarians, etc. fall off their rocker. On the social issues, they're spot on. Economically? They have quite a bit of reading to do. Utopia is great to lay back in your bed and think about, but we have to be pragmatic in our approach and frankly the closest we will ever get to that utopia ultimately has to be achieved through individualism and freedom of the individual. Collectivism, regardless if it is centralized or decentralized, never works. Never has, never will. It inevitably leads to suffering and loss of freedom.
 
January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States.<---------------


http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cshti08.pdf

again slavery is a crime.....it is not a constitutional violation by a citizen as you claimed from the start,..stop deflecting.


Peonage, Slavery, and Trafficking in Persons, 18 U.S.C. 1581 et seq., making slavery, the slave trade, and related activities a crime.<---------------

January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States.<---------------



U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 77
18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/te...t-I/chapter-77

You have already posted this contention. And again, no one has been charged with enslaving another individual in the US since the 13th amendment because you would have to prove that someone made a person a slave, which, technically speaking, cannot be done because slavery does not exist in the United States.
 
You have already posted this contention. And again, no one has been charged with enslaving another individual in the US since the 13th amendment because you would have to prove that someone made a person a slave, which, technically speaking, cannot be done because slavery does not exist in the United States.

you should be embarrassed by now, claiming citizens violate constitutional law , and then saying the 13th and 14th are declarations....which makes slavery not possible in america....

you dig a hole so deep for yourself....

why cant you just have admitted you were wrong and moved on...no you had to be pushing your nonsense
 
Ukrainian brothers charged with slave labor in Philadelphia

Ukrainian brothers charged with slave labor in Philadelphia - Philly.com

That is the title of an article. Here's what the brothers where technically charged with

http://www.justice.gov/usao/pae/News/2010/Jun/botsvynyuk_indictment.pdf

1. 18 U.S.C. § 1962(d) (conspiracy to participate in a racketeering enterprise -1 count)
2. 18 U.S.C. § 1951 (interference with commerce by threats of violence - 3 counts)

So they were charged with one count of Conspiracy to Commit Racketeering, and three counts of Extortion

Here's the law

18 U.S.C. § 1962
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person who has received any income derived, directly or indirectly, from a pattern of racketeering activity or through collection of an unlawful debt in which such person has participated as a principal within the meaning of section 2, title 18, United States Code, to use or invest, directly or indirectly, any part of such income, or the proceeds of such income, in acquisition of any interest in, or the establishment or operation of, any enterprise which is engaged in, or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce. A purchase of securities on the open market for purposes of investment, and without the intention of controlling or participating in the control of the issuer, or of assisting another to do so, shall not be unlawful under this subsection if the securities of the issuer held by the purchaser, the members of his immediate family, and his or their accomplices in any pattern or racketeering activity or the collection of an unlawful debt after such purchase do not amount in the aggregate to one percent of the outstanding securities of any one class, and do not confer, either in law or in fact, the power to elect one or more directors of the issuer.
(b) It shall be unlawful for any person through a pattern of racketeering activity or through collection of an unlawful debt to acquire or maintain, directly or indirectly, any interest in or control of any enterprise which is engaged in, or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce.
(c) It shall be unlawful for any person employed by or associated with any enterprise engaged in, or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce, to conduct or participate, directly or indirectly, in the conduct of such enterprise’s affairs through a pattern of racketeering activity or collection of unlawful debt.
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to conspire to violate any of the provisions of subsection (a), (b), or (c) of this section.

18 U.S.C. § 1951
(a) Whoever in any way or degree obstructs, delays, or affects commerce or the movement of any article or commodity in commerce, by robbery or extortion or attempts or conspires so to do, or commits or threatens physical violence to any person or property in furtherance of a plan or purpose to do anything in violation of this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
(b) As used in this section—
(1) The term “robbery” means the unlawful taking or obtaining of personal property from the person or in the presence of another, against his will, by means of actual or threatened force, or violence, or fear of injury, immediate or future, to his person or property, or property in his custody or possession, or the person or property of a relative or member of his family or of anyone in his company at the time of the taking or obtaining.
(2) The term “extortion” means the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.
(3) The term “commerce” means commerce within the District of Columbia, or any Territory or Possession of the United States; all commerce between any point in a State, Territory, Possession, or the District of Columbia and any point outside thereof; all commerce between points within the same State through any place outside such State; and all other commerce over which the United States has jurisdiction.
(c) This section shall not be construed to repeal, modify or affect section 17 ofTitle 15, sections 52, 101–115, 151–166 of Title 29 or sections 151–188 of Title 45.

Please note there is NO CHARGE OF ENSLAVEMENT BECAUSE YOU CANNOT TECHNICALLY MAKE A PERSON A SLAVE IN THE UNITED STATES.

Labor trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purposes of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery, (22 USC § 7102).

You need to read carefully. The subject of the sentence, i.e. what is being described, is LABOR TRAFFICKING. The term slavery in the sentence is used to describe THE CRIME OF LABOR TRAFFICKING. Yes you can be charged with the crime of labor trafficking. It happens all the time. BUT NOWHERE WILL YOU SEE THE CRIME OF ENSLAVEMENT BECAUSE THE 13TH AMENDMENT SAYS THAT SLAVERY DOES NOT EXIST IN THE UNITED STATES. That is what the Supreme Court meant when it said the 13th amendment was self executing and not in need of ancillary legislation

This amendment, ... is undoubtedly self-executing, without any ancillary legislation, so far as its terms are applicable to any existing state of circumstances. By its own unaided force and effect, it abolished slavery and established universal freedom.
..........
the amendment is not a mere prohibition of State laws establishing or upholding slavery, but an absolute declaration that slavery or involuntary servitude shall not exist in any part of the United States.

The Supreme Court said, in no ambiguous terms, that there was NO DOUBT that the 13th amendment was SELF EXECUTING AND NEEDED NO ANCILLARY LEGISLATION. Therefore, you do not see a statute that describes the crime of slavery.
 
you should be embarrassed by now, claiming citizens violate constitutional law , and then saying the 13th and 14th are declarations....which makes slavery not possible in america....

you dig a hole so deep for yourself....

why cant you just have admitted you were wrong and moved on...no you had to be pushing your nonsense

This is stupid. You cannot produce a statute that describes the crime of slavery. It's just not there. You can blow all the smoke you want, and you may confuse some people, but there is no statute that describes the crime of enslavement.
 
That is the title of an article. Here's what the brothers where technically charged with

http://www.justice.gov/usao/pae/News/2010/Jun/botsvynyuk_indictment.pdf

1. 18 U.S.C. § 1962(d) (conspiracy to participate in a racketeering enterprise -1 count)
2. 18 U.S.C. § 1951 (interference with commerce by threats of violence - 3 counts)

So they were charged with one count of Conspiracy to Commit Racketeering, and three counts of Extortion

Here's the law

Please note there is NO CHARGE OF ENSLAVEMENT BECAUSE YOU CANNOT TECHNICALLY MAKE A PERSON A SLAVE IN THE UNITED STATES.

You need to read carefully. The subject of the sentence, i.e. what is being described, is LABOR TRAFFICKING. The term slavery in the sentence is used to describe THE CRIME OF LABOR TRAFFICKING. Yes you can be charged with the crime of labor trafficking. It happens all the time. BUT NOWHERE WILL YOU SEE THE CRIME OF ENSLAVEMENT BECAUSE THE 13TH AMENDMENT SAYS THAT SLAVERY DOES NOT EXIST IN THE UNITED STATES. That is what the Supreme Court meant when it said the 13th amendment was self executing and not in need of ancillary legislation

The Supreme Court said, in no ambiguous terms, that there was NO DOUBT that the 13th amendment was SELF EXECUTING AND NEEDED NO ANCILLARY LEGISLATION. Therefore, you do not see a statute that describes the crime of slavery.


the Constitution creates the federal government delegates them few powers, and creates federalism a separation of powers between the federal government and state governments, the federal government cannot create federal laws, which do not pertain to its constitutional powers granted to it by the constitution, it creates no relationship between the federal government and the people.

the 13th amendment to the constitution ,constitutional law, only applies to governments , BUT congress by appropriate legislation., CAN MAKE FEDERAL LAWS , making slavery a crime for citizens using federal statutes, even setting guidelines for the punishment for the crime.


federal statutes

18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

§ 1581. Peonage; obstructing enforcement
§ 1582. Vessels for slave trade
§ 1583. Enticement into slavery
§ 1584. Sale into involuntary servitude
§ 1585. Seizure, detention, transportation or sale of slaves
§ 1586. Service on vessels in slave trade
§ 1587. Possession of slaves aboard vessel
§ 1588. Transportation of slaves from United States
§ 1589. Forced labor
§ 1590. Trafficking with respect to peonage, slavery, involuntary servitude, or forced labor
§ 1591. Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion
§ 1592. Unlawful conduct with respect to documents in furtherance of trafficking, peonage, slavery, involuntary servitude, or forced labor
§ 1593. Mandatory restitution
§ 1593A. Benefitting financially from peonage, slavery, and trafficking in persons
§ 1594. General provisions
§ 1595. Civil remedy
§ 1596. Additional jurisdiction in certain trafficking offenses
§ 1597. Unlawful conduct with respect to immigration documents
§ 1588. Transportation of slaves from United States

§ 1589. Forced labor-- Whoever knowingly provides or obtains the labor or services of a person--

(1) by threats of serious harm to, or physical restraint against, that person or another person;

(2) by means of any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause the person to believe that, if the person did not perform such labor or services, that person or another person would suffer serious harm or physical restraint; or

(3) by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the legal process,shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If death results from the violation of this section, or if the violation includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or the attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, the defendant shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or life, or both.


§ 1590.Trafficking with Respect to Peonage, Slavery, Involuntary Servitude, or Forced Labor
§ 1591.Sex Trafficking of Children or by Force, Fraud, or Coercion
§ 1592.Unlawful Conduct with Respect to Documents in Furtherance of Trafficking, Peonage, Slavery, Involuntary Servitude, or Forced Labor
 
There is no restriction in the 13th amendment to government. Therefore there are no federal or state statutes that ban slavery, because an absolute declaration was made in the 13th amendment.

18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

You are the one who does not understand the law. The 13th amendment applies to individuals as well as governments. Even the Supreme Court has stated such.

AMENDMENT XIII

Passed by Congress January 31, 1865. Ratified December 6, 1865.
Note: A portion of Article IV, section 2, of the Constitution was superseded by the 13th amendment.
Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

if a government were to sanction slavery it would be a constitutional violation, because governments cannot be sent to jail using federal code, but congress by appropriate legislation created federal code, for crimes of slavery to apply to citizens.

constitutional law applies to government, not the people, federal laws apply to people.

You tell me, what is the federal statute that specifically sets a punishment for slavery? Answer there is none, because according to the constitution there is no such thing as slavery in the United States.

18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

January 2009 Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Characteristics of Suspected Human Trafficking Incidents, 2007-2008, showing that authorities investigated over 1200 incidents of human trafficking, and confirmed the incident in over 100 cases in the United States

There is no federal statute that sets a punishment for slavery. Why? Because the 13th amendment is an absolute declaration that slavery does not exist in the United States. Period. There is no need of a federal statute to punish the crime of slavery because slavery simply does not exist. It applies to governments as well as individuals.
The relevant Supreme Court decision on the matter

18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 § 1589--(3) by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the legal process,shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If death results from the violation of this section, or if the violation includes kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or the attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, the defendant shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or life, or both.

Human trafficking is technically NOT slavery. Show me a federal statute or Supreme Court ruling that states that human trafficking is slavery. No one is tried for the crime of slavery, because slavery does not exist in the United States.

18 U.S. Code Chapter 77 - PEONAGE, SLAVERY, AND TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS

I'm not off subject, because the point is that the 13th amendment applies not only to governments, but individuals as well. Therefore the Supreme Court has said

the 13th amendment is constitutional law...constitutional law does not apply to citizens, congress makes federal laws which deal with citizens.

Constitutional law


article 1 section 8

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

article 3 section 3

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

when a citizen has been found to have : counterfeited- committed piracy- committed treason, he will be tried under federal law, not constitutional law.

constitutional powers like these are general powers, meaning they are not detailed powers, ...so congress makes federal laws to set the specifications to the crimes of counterfeiting, piracy, and treason.
 
Wrong. That is not what is being done. Nor would it be detrimental.
You are just making false claims that come from your ridiculous ideology.

Let's say a man holds the title to a site. The site is empty with little-to-no natural resources or improvements (such as a building). As a result, its market value is very low. Now let's say the community builds a school right next to his site. What happens to the value of that land? The value increases and the titleholder becomes a much wealthier man without doing an ounce of work. This has been done every day on a grand scale for centuries.

This explains how the siteowner profits off the productivity of the community. So does this.

So the siteowner captures the wealth of the community through rent... is this necessarily a bad thing? Economist Fred Foldvary explains why it is bad:

Land speculation has different effects from speculation in stocks or commodities. That's because land is local, land is fixed in supply, and land rent gets puffed up by government spending. The fixed supply implies that greater demand just raises the price, unlike commodities that can be produced or imported. Currencies, shares of stock, and commodities have global markets, but land has local markets, so a high local price cannot be arbitraged: one cannot move low-price land into high-priced areas. Finally, unlike commodities, government public works increase the rent, so speculators may actively influence government to provide works landowners don't pay for.

Land speculation hurts wages by taking up land locally, pushing labor to less productive areas. By holding land waiting for the price to rise, speculators decrease the local productivity. The wage level is determined at the least productive land in use, as all the additional product of the better lands goes to rent. The main reason why this market-hurting speculation takes place is because the landowners get territorial benefits without having to pay for them.

Foldvary: Speculation versus Investment

I will respond to the rest soon.
 
Marx was correct. The US would have long been past the point economically that it is now in if it were not for the New Deal and unionization. However globalization has lead to a loophole in that system which has in turn led to CEO's making a ratio of 350:1 compared to workers. If the US wants to remain strong, it must adjust this deficiency and lower the gap between employees and corporate execs. Now, I am not advocating making everyone equal within a company. Those that work harder should be rewarded and of course the higher the position the higher the pay. Yet, I do not feel it is justifiable, nor sustainable for execs to earn $350 to every $1 a worker is making.
 
Bs! As it is they pay the taxes on it full value.

False. While some do pay the equivalent (or more) of the full value thanks to two-tiered property taxes, not everyone pays the full value. You really think the owner of the empty lot next to the skyscraper is paying its full value in tax?

But as it should be, all they should pay is a sales tax.

Sales tax is bad for the local economy.


Bs! you are not paying taxes on certain things to "make up for".
That is another absurd claim.

It is true. The wealth generated through our infrastructure is crystallized and privatized to benefit a few individuals when it should be benefiting the community as a whole. This results in greater wealth disparity which forces politicians to expand on assistance programs and raise our taxes.

What you said is irrelevant to what you quoted.
Paying taxes on something that is your property, you know, that **** you already paid taxes on, is counter ownership.

Who made the Earth? Air? Space? Natural resources? Nobody. Legally it can be owned, sure, but not naturally the same way we own the house we built. I believe as Thomas Paine believed: it is nevertheless true that it is value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property.
WealthandWant: Thomas Paine

As already stated.
They are profiting. That is a good thing. They also risk losing and do lose.
That should not be discouraged.

A thief also profits when he steals from the house he burglarizes. Profit in itself is not always good.

And as I stated before, there is little risk to land speculation (unless you are being dumb about it).

Dan Kildee of Community Progress states: Today, there is no "downside" or cost to large-scale speculation. In most locales -- and especially in very depressed housing markets -- so-called "investors" can purchase property for as little as a few hundred dollars and sell this property to a third party for hundreds or thousands of dollars more, in a sale that is recorded as legitimate by the relevant county -- without any requirement that the seller/speculator pay past due taxes or maintained the property to even minimum standards.

Land markets are very predictable (economists like Mason Gaffney have it down to a science) and speculators almost always come out on top.

If you have evidence to the contrary I'd like to see it.
 
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